SB/forum Debate!

[Jacx]

Has the SB made the forum a less fun place to be, does it mean the forums are more inactive as there are less recoreded posts or does the lack of posts affect you in any way.

Some say the Sb has brought lots of people closer together, soem say it helps with the hours at work.....Yet could the same not be said pre SB just forum wise.

I spoke to rit today and he made a comment that the SB had turned the place into a chat room...something he has never liked, yet now that people are used to it, can they ever go back to non SB....

I want to hear comments from you the users. And, what i really want, is for you to try and look from both sides...i want the possitives and negitives you feel from all this.

Some people seem soooo glad the SB is gone...yet they miss it to a point, others feel thats it being gone has taken away something from the forums....some think the conversations and debates might inprove again now its a forum again and not a shoutbox/chatroom, some think its doomed lol.

Really think what you feel...think about pre SB, think old forum style, think what do you really want from oddthought...some would like open house to go all together and be gaming only...discuss your views..NO flaming...this is discussion only.

As for the SB...waiting on a fix, but im interested while its down to do this debate.

[Santo]

Im not much of a forum poster, ive never been in any sites, and probably never will, i like the SB cause it gave a chance to get to know more people, i know a lot say well i have them all in msn anyways, but being here to finish up those last long work hours was nice, and at the same time it made me go into more threads and post on them. And now im posting even more in the hopes we will get the SB back. It [the SB] got a bit confuisng at times where there were too many people on it at the same time, but all fun. It also gave the chance to catch someone you needed to talk too and couldnt get a hold of in any other means ;)

[-=REMO=-]

I don't think that the SB really added anything to the forum, but then again, the only time I ever used it was when we got hacked.

The way I see it, there isn't really anything that you can do through the SB that you can't through the forum.

[Buckledmac]

i think Dymond said it best when he made the comment "its true that since the SB had gone the amount of forum posting and threads created had gone up but 3/4's of them were BRING BACK SHOUTBOX"

says it all for me

without the SB i would talk to half the forum members i have done recently making many new e-friends which is all good, personally thinking back to forum pre-shoutbox bores me to tears but thats just me ;-)

[Zulu Warrior]

how else am i gonna talk to myself late, late friday and saturday nights while deeply impaired by the suds? :blank:

[Kloaked Spirit]

I'd say the SB greatly improved the sense of community that we were aiming for with this forum. It's not like posting has died out completely. It never has. The posting just stopped being "posting just to post/spam/etc."

Besides, in the past we'd probably receive a request for a chatroom weekly. We've even tried this idea multiple times. This is about as close to a successful chatroom as well. Why this is such a bad thing now, I really don't understand.

[Cushion]

i liked the SB it was cool to chat while in and out of reading posts, and seeing what peoples up 2 etc

[Nickything]

Agree with all the above, The SB is fun and I want it back. I've chatted with people I normally wouldn't have and taken the piss out of even more :D

[Cushion]

is it broke, or has it just been closed ?

[Calienta]

I agree with KS, I feel a lot more comfortable posting in here since I've spoken with a lot more people than I ever would have without the SB. However, I do think that whenever there were important issues (like the SB itself), a thread could be made but everyone would discuss it in the box, to be later lost in the logs. If you weren't around for it, tough luck. Some ideas would of course get posted in the thread but it wouldn't be a fully-fledged discussion like the SB would create. In that respect I don't think it did us any favours.

[Jacx]

Debate has been lost ks...i find it quite noticable, also rit has always avoided a chatroom/channels as u know...he likes forum style..something that started as a experiment has grown quite dramaticaly.

The question im asking is...has it caused any sort of loss to oddthought. Its me being curious and rit was feeling same way...hence the thread.

[So Warped]

I spoke to rit today and he made a comment that the SB had turned the place into a chat room...something he has never liked, yet now that people are used to it, can they ever go back to non SB....

I can hardly get through one thread without seeing Rit's urbane, funny, intellectual posts helping to create and make this forum what it is.http://www.countingcows.de/tjaja.gif

[Zulu Warrior]

rit-wit was working on chatroom. he invited us in late a couple weekends ago, and it failed to loadup. he returned to SB and said 'fuck it', and deleted it.

[Jacx]

is it broke, or has it just been closed ?


we got a nice fix coming possibly tomorrow...(im getting answers from a forum myself)

but i wanted to see what people felt.


Also, i also feel that the Sb can cause a lot of animocity...i seen people bitch at others, yet when thy come on..its all smiles n shit.

and yes im talking as if i dont like th Sb...but i asked people to try and post pos and neg and most people just posting pro SB and not even thinking about the neg Sb!....someone has to ballance the convo...but not me tonight..im off.

[Jacx]

SB...stick to the discussion, or dont post in this thread simple...i asked for a debate about it, and thats what i want...not sly jabs at people.

Sorry dont mean to sound off, but im trying here, and im looking for this to stay a discussion.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Debate has been lost ks...i find it quite noticable, also rit has always avoided a chatroom/channels as u know...he likes forum style..something that started as a experiment has grown quite dramaticaly.

The question im asking is...has it caused any sort of loss to oddthought. Its me being curious and rit was feeling same way...hence the thread.

It's caused a loss of spam. That's about the biggest victim here. Instead of creating 23 threads talking about SW's newest underwear, it's all discussed in the SB. So because of that, General Discussion takes a hit. Maybe A/I/W takes a hit if people are fighting in the SB for 6 seconds rather then making 3 posts bitching about something stupid.

SD was never extremely popular. It had it's localized group of people that post there, and they still did even when the SB came up. Same with the other sections. Comedy was good to tell jokes and get minimal responses. We've split "entertainment" into two different sections now. And the sports section? Well, why don't we blame the World Cup portion of the forum for the lack of posts there? I don't see the SB as doing that much damage.

Edit: Actually I'd say the way the posting has gone since the SB and after the SB is fairly equivilant to when we turn post counts completely off. Now I know you want negatives listed here, but the fact is the few negatives that could be said are far outweighed by the sense of community gained from being able to participate in something like the SB.

[Zulu Warrior]

SB...stick to the discussion, or dont post in this thread simple...i asked for a debate about it, and thats what i want...not sly jabs at people.

Sorry dont mean to sound off, but im trying here, and im looking for this to stay a discussion.

if your talking to me, just say so. i like everybody here, and jus cause i use querky nicknames means no disrespect to anyone.

[Alf uckem]

I think the main problem with the shoutbox, is people that cant be arsed using it dont post anymore, as there arent enough posts that they may wish to comment on or give their opinion. Regular sb users will talk amongst theirselves to sort out any problems, noobs who aint comfortable with the sb as they dont know anyone will be dissapointed at the lack of posts within the forum. I know of a few users that simply dont post anymore, a quick look round for 5 minutes at new posts then log out.

I used to enjoy spending 20 minutes reading through all the different posts with various contributions from loads of different people. Some fucked up, some funny, prior to sb dying the forum was as dry as a nuns chuff.:rant:

[Jacx]

I think the main problem with the shoutbox, is people that cant be arsed using it dont post anymore, as there arent enough posts that they may wish to comment on or give their opinion. Regular sb users will talk amongst theirselves to sort out any problems, noobs who aint comfortable with the sb as they dont know anyone will be dissapointed at the lack of posts within the forum. I know of a few users that simply dont post anymore, a quick look round for 5 minutes at new posts then log out.

I used to enjoy spending 20 minutes reading through all the different posts with various contributions from loads of different people. Some fucked up, some funny, prior to sb dying the forum was as dry as a nuns chuff.:rant:


and so, does that not affect noobs joining the forums...if people not posting and just using SB... what incentive do they have to join the forums... i was the same as u..i used to come in, have a good ole read up and then do whatever.

Now, ther is hardly anything to read other than the SB and i probably missed any intreasting convos that had been going on..least in post forum, i could contribute.

[Dymond]

Well I will admit I love both but like alot of other folks said I met more people on the SB that I would have never really gotten to know through the forum itself and have made some great friends because of it. I still posted on the forums but usually I would post when I had something to say and not just because I had nothing else better to do while I was here. Heck I even got a chance to talk to Rit which has never happened and helped him troubleshoot something he was doing. Not everybody liked the Shoutbox but I think most of those people were content to just post in the forums and they will always do that.

Overall though I agree with KS, the SB has built a sense of community that was missing before.

[DeLeRiuM]

I do realize that we have less posts now but it really is the cut of spam. That is the biggest loss here, and yeah maybe alil bit of arguing in AIW.

I think the SB has increased the flirting alot, which I know some people dislike so I guess that is a negative, though maybe having it there instead of in all threads is a positive.

And yes some hostile feelings have been created here and there and alot of that has to do with real time interaction where as with posting you let some things settle in before you reply.

All and all I like the idea of the SB I think there should be some ground rules set and maybe that would make some people feel better about it. But as its been said its been turning into more of a chat room around here, and you said it yourself Jacx that people change thier attitudes when your around. Like a normal chat room does maybe we need mods to be in there more of the time to keep things civil, I don't know just a thought.

[Jacx]

excuse me for playing the devils advocate, but im forced too.

U say there is a better comunity now than pre SB, i think there was a bigger and better comunity in the old forum....the SB was not in the old forum!

However i do agree with the sentiment of comunity. It does give people a great way of getting together regardless of skin colour, race or location in the world.

It also gives me a good giggle with some of the spontaious comments that some people regret...aka usualy me.

something more of note:

Post statisics

June 25, 2006 256
June 26, 2006 329
June 27, 2006 377 <<<Sb stopped due to fault!
June 28, 2006 941
June 29, 2006 733

[YetAnotherKitten]

I've been back and forth on this issue. SO here is my ide of the good and the bad

shoutbox-

THE BAD:
SB was mostly unregulated except by whoever was on in a position of power at the time. A lot of times I saw people disrespected and honestly NSFW stuff put up and just sort of forced in your face with either little or no (if no one was around to see it) consequence.

Resa was forced to deal with a lot of stupid problems just becuase she was available and in touch with the man in charge.

If there was a lot of people on, or worse people posting huge pics or tons of smileys every two seconds (bossa-who ran away) the site was lagged and at some point completly frozen when it got the worst (for me anyway).

*that is, it has formed cliques of people who are online at the same time.

THE GOOD:


It was ofetn like an MSN party that everyone was invited to.

As some say it has "brought people closer together"* being able to talk realtime gives a better idea of who a person is and many got the chance to talk one on one who didn't knwo each other from msn/too shy to add/to new etc.

I must say, pre-shoutbox we had a confusing and somewhat dry forum. Vets and noobs alike couldnt find stuff. I think some of the better posters were kind of carrying it along, until the hack. It was this big drama that got everyone talking and all there WAS -was SB. Then when the forum came back up people started posting a bit more I think becuase the SB got people interested enough to get people to come in. Something that the reg forum wasn't doing at the time.

post shoutbox-

THE BAD-

A million and one posts!!! about the shoutbox...

People who don't have msn don't get to talk to the friends that they had in the sb in real-time anymore.

THE GOOD-

More to read.

People are finally talking about how to improve the new forums out in the open. You can hear through thte grapevine that some people aren't happy but I think most of the disscussion must be going to the improvements section? Anyway, people are forced to use the forums which means they can't avoid the needed improvements i think.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

My vote-No Shoutbox

[Maija]

I really enjoyed the SB. It was like "International MSN" where you could come in and out of conversations with ease, and meet new people. I greatly prefer it to MSN, because you can jump on and off and not worry about leaving someone "hanging" beacuse there are always people around to pick up the convo.

For the people who say that it makes the forum a "chat room," well i would just answer them the way I would any other complaint about the forum.... Just ignore it. If you don't like it, don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. I dunno, maybe I am missing something in that argument?

[Jacx]

good posts DeLeRiuM and YetAnotherKitten ...nice to see people looking at both sides of the debate.

Maija..i think its hard to ignore something that cuts the posting down so drematicaly and cuts non SB discussion...whats the point of them being there if no one is posting...hence i quite like dellies post.

But again maybe thats down to us for not making the discriptions clearer to the noobs when they join...so again u might have a point Maija

[So Warped]

I really enjoyed the SB. It was like "International MSN" where you could come in and out of conversations with ease, and meet new people. I greatly prefer it to MSN, because you can jump on and off and not worry about leaving someone "hanging" beacuse there are always people around to pick up the convo.

For the people who say that it makes the forum a "chat room," well i would just answer them the way I would any other complaint about the forum.... Just ignore it. If you don't like it, don't use it. Seems pretty simple to me. I dunno, maybe I am missing something in that argument?



/me ignores Maija.

[Kloaked Spirit]

excuse me for playing the devils advocate, but im forced too.

U say there is a better comunity now than pre SB, i think there was a bigger and better comunity in the old forum....the SB was not in the old forum!

However i do agree with the sentiment of comunity. It does give people a great way of getting together regardless of skin colour, race or location in the world.

It also gives me a good giggle with some of the spontaious comments that some people regret...aka usualy me.

something more of note:

Post statisics

June 25, 2006 256
June 26, 2006 329
June 27, 2006 377 <<<Sb stopped due to fault!
June 28, 2006 941
June 29, 2006 733

- First Point:
I'd argue that most of that increase in posting has been mainly one of two things:
a) Spam
b) Threads about the shoutbox, because it's the newest change to the forum. Every major forum change brings forth multiple threads about said change. This would be no different (as obviously proven.)

I'd still like you to run a comparison of posts from a few days the SB was up to when we had the post counts turned off. I bet they're pretty close to the same amount.

- Second Point:
This is for everyone really; how many of those 300 posts per day do you actually read? Who has read all 733 posts that were made yesterday? I certainly know I haven't. So I think there's enough going on for people to just log in for 20 minutes and see new things to participate in.

- Third point
Pre SB did not necessarily mean old forum. Old forum had years of time to grow as somewhat of a community. Many people from that older community have posted less frequently since the new forum, and it had nothing to with the ShoutBox. In fact, I'd argue that the SB has brought some of the old community back.

[Jacx]

tells KS to play devils advocate for a while...being the bad guy sucks sometimes :(

[JaiJai]

My opinion: The SB has its pro's and con's

Pro's

*Live communcation* - There's an element of live communication when you can talk in real time. It's people's nature to want to deal with each other fluently. Posting and waiting sometimes 24 or more hours for a response isn't everyone's idea of communicating. That's why msn, aim, Icq, and those are so popular :orign:

*Broader spectrum of friends* - From what I've noticed, the SB has allowed some of the "clique" ideas to diminish. I hadn't realized before, but alot of you felt there was a clique of "popular people" and many of you were intimidated to post in the forum. The SB made way for people to get to know us all better and break down that barrier, and that is a good thing. Now with or without the SB, more people will feel confident enough to join our threads and post. :hugs:

*Spam* - I do believe the SB cuts down on spam alot. For instance when a person is just chillin at the end of a long day, and wants to just talk a bit without taking the effort to make threads/post etc.. The SB is a place to just say a few random things to your friends, then off to bed. That too is a good thing.

*Traffic* - As Jacx said.. approx 2000 SB posts a day. I think the SB draws ppl to log onto oddthought, to just see who's chattin in the SB, and helps people have a place to discuss some dopewars strats quickly, or do a little recruiting etc.. I believe it' can be a positive draw for oddthought, If it's taken care of properly, with that said...here's my opinion on the cons:

Cons

*Abuse* - There's been a few instances of abusing others in the SB. I think with any live chat, (i've been admin on a large chat site for 5 years and I see this everyday) The element of randomness exists. With that, people's feelings get hurt often. When someone is in the SB and a thought comes to mind to say, it's alot easier to just whip it out there... When it's in a post, people tend to re read what they are about to enter and alot of times will change their mind or even go delete it after they post it. I'm not talking about flaming for fun, I'm talking about mean hearted comments to others. In a large chat site, it's not as important cuz we have 1800 chatters pass through per day.. but here, with this small community, and where most of us are really true friends, I think it's just important to think before we speak in the SB sometimes.

*Forum Posting* - Unfortunately, the SB does lead to less forum posting. But like KS said, maybe it's just cutting down on the spam type posts, I dunno. But the numbers show the post count dropped drastically with the SB open. Rit wants this to be a forum first and foremost. So when the SB opens back up, hopefully people will still try to make an effort to post regulary as well. The forum posts are good in the sense that say we're having a debate on abortion in the SB, the only people that are part of that are the 5 that are in the SB at the time. Then it gets lost in the history of the SB. When it's posted in a thread, then in the morning when the limey's wake up.. They can join in on our discussion.

*NSFW* - The SB is real time, and being on the initial page of oddthought, when someone posts a nsfw pic, those that are at work have no choice but to see them ( and possibly their boss too) lol So I'd say that should be kept in mind for the sake of those people at work.

---------- The End :ice:

[DeLeRiuM]

THE BAD:
SB was mostly unregulated except by whoever was on in a position of power at the time. A lot of times I saw people disrespected and honestly NSFW stuff put up and just sort of forced in your face with either little or no (if no one was around to see it) consequence.

For this reason inparticular I think that it would be a good idea to move the SB back to the bottem of the page, and also why it needs rules and mods around more often to enforce the rules.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Quick question: When are all of these "real discussions" ever going on in the SB? The absolute closest to serious discussion that we've had whenever I've been on is my being "serious" about making every sentence related to Chuck Norris for 5 minutes. I've honestly never seen anything of a SD nature go on in there.

[So Warped]

June 25, 2006 256
June 26, 2006 329
June 27, 2006 377
June 28, 2006 941
June 29, 2006 733
That is pretty poor post count, I thought the Mods and Admin were going to bring in new people to this forum. What happened to that idea, lazy bones?

Look at the first 15 posts in Gen discussion. How many of those are original posts with new creative ideas that get people posting?

The Admins and Mods are the members bitches, they should come up with ideas to make the SB and forum integrate better.


I'd argue that the SB has brought some of the old community back.
Thats true, there has been a feeling of the old forum on here much more over the last 4 or 5 weeks.
:orign:

[Maija]

excuse me for playing the devils advocate, but im forced too.
OK, can I play devil's advocate advocate?

U say there is a better comunity now than pre SB, i think there was a bigger and better comunity in the old forum....the SB was not in the old forum!

Like it or not, I think we lost a lot of posters in the switch to the nrew forum. I know it was a neccessity, but with any change you will lose some and gain some more. I think it also took awhile for everyone to get used to the format of the new forum. I know that we had several cartel disscussion in those first months where people mentioned that they stopped using it because it was wayy too complicated and couldn't be bothered to weed through all the crap. This may be why you relate a bigger sense of community to the old forum, since there was much more daily activity.
However i do agree with the sentiment of comunity. It does give people a great way of getting together regardless of skin colour, race or location in the world.

It also gives me a good giggle with some of the spontaious comments that some people regret...aka usualy me.

something more of note:

Post statisics

June 25, 2006 256
June 26, 2006 329
June 27, 2006 377 <<<Sb stopped due to fault!
June 28, 2006 941
June 29, 2006 733

You gotta acknowledge that some of the increase is due to the multible "SB MISSING" threads. And even after those, it's already tanked 200 posts below from yesterday.

I think the problem is trying to appease everyone. It's just not possible. People are always going to be bitching and complaining about some "drama" in the SB. Or claiming that there are "cliques" in the SB....but I just don't see anyway around those arguments. We are all adults here, we should realize that this happens everywhere and everyday, ie: "Office Politics"

And one more small point, there are n00bs that have ventured into the SB and have been welcomed. I don't think that I ever even heard of santo malverde before recently, and SweetHoney has been a great addition to the community as well.

If you decide to get rid of it, I won't complain. It seems like it is causing you more drama than it is worth. It just blows that people can't just all suck it up and act like adults sometimes.

[Jacx]

another thing to think of...how many noobs join in the SB...i seen 3 as far as i know...and only 2 still use it..is that becuase they are intimidated by the "community" side, aka everyone knowing everyone?

Im starting to think, its probably not so much Sb, but th way its administrated, del made a good point on this.
Im thinking that if we made a area, that explained the use of the sb, the mentality of it, then noobs wont be so fearfull of it...great post resa..like it lots!

suggestions people...is there a way to make the forum more user friendly for noobs so that people WILL post in the forum, and ballance it with the SB?

[Jacx]

not looking to be rid of it at all, im looking for debate on the subject majia

[So Warped]

If you decide to get rid of it, I won't complain. It seems like it is causing you more drama than it is worth. It just blows that people can't just all suck it up and act like adults sometimes.

The shoutbox is to the forum what the sun is to the moon, what Yin is to Yang, what male is to female, what Phil Mitchell is to Grant Mitchell, what Uganja is to latent homosexuality ie they are not opposite they go hand in hand.

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Peace out :meditate:

/me goes back to ignoring Maija

[Jacx]

tripple post..when it comes back...it is going to the bottom del, for that reason...we had too many bloody complaints about pictures in the sb...if someones got the sb up and a pic comes up and its at bottom of the forum, then its their own fault for taking the risk, they cannot moan to the SB users or us

[DeLeRiuM]

Post statisics

June 25, 2006 256
June 26, 2006 329
June 27, 2006 377 <<<Sb stopped due to fault!
June 28, 2006 941
June 29, 2006 733

I have to say that I think the new music sections have up'd the post count alot in the last two days especially with the "What song are you listening to right now?" thread. Now whether people are posting there more because the SB is gone or not I can't say for sure only time will tell, it could be just because of the newness of it.

[Maija]

I don't think there is anyway to make it more n00b friendly....it is entirely dependent on that person (n00b). Some people have more friendly outgoing personalities than others, or may have more time to sit around and chat than others.

You could add all the rules, regs, descriptions, best intentions you want to the SB, but it all comes down to that individual new person and how they relate to the community.

EX: You are at a party where you don't know anyone ... do you walk up to the first group you see and start chatting, or do you head over to the bar and chill out for a bit? Everyone will answer this question differently.

Sometimes, I think you just gotta give things some time to come into their own.

not looking to be rid of it at all, im looking for debate on the subject majia
I thought that was what I was doing. :blush:

[JaiJai]

Quick question: When are all of these "real discussions" ever going on in the SB? The absolute closest to serious discussion that we've had whenever I've been on is my being "serious" about making every sentence related to Chuck Norris for 5 minutes. I've honestly never seen anything of a SD nature go on in there.

We've had a lot of good discussions in the SB , unwed mothers - politics - death penalty views - forum ideas - unemployment rates in diff countries.. etc... maybe it all happens when you're sleeping or out to lunch :w00t2:

[Jacx]

hes always out too lunch..look hes even gone now...the lazy fucker

[DeLeRiuM]

We've had a lot of good discussions in the SB , unwed mothers - politics - death penalty views - forum ideas - unemployment rates in diff countries.. etc... maybe it all happens when you're sleeping or out to lunch :w00t2:

A part of the job of being an Op in an IRC channel I was apart of was to bring up topics to chat on, maybe as a part of mods being in the SB would be to suggest when a subject that is being talked about is suitable for a thread. Cause some just blab on and don't think about it. If someone said "hey this would probably make a pretty good thread in SD" I bet you would have more than one person heading over there to start a thread about it and discuss it.

[Maija]

Without the SB, I would have never know that Uganja likes the grannies, Tung is not actually a robot, Gank's GF is beautiful, Dymond drives a Toyota, and Craig got engaged :w00t2:

[Calienta]

I would never have spoken with Maija and would have probably continued to be afraid of her :blushing:

[Maija]

Awwwwwwww....I forget how scary I am sometimes :unsure:

*side note* Whoa Cali! Look at your rep! You are off-the-hook girl! lol :ice:

[Jacx]

Replies Views

45 241


ya fucking post sluts

[Calienta]

Wahoo!!!


Anyway, just like to add another two cents here... Without the SB I think everyone will continue to be as open and friendly as we had become in the box. Prime example, Maija and I just now lol. Even if we don't get it back I think the forum is better off because we had it.

[Nickything]

I didn't post much on the old forum even though I've been playing since the end of 2003. In that sense I am as much a 'noob' to this forum as say Santo Malverde or Sweet Honey. I probably wouldn't feel quite as comfortable ginger baiting Unganja on threads if I didn't do it regularly in the SB.

Oh and KS you must have missed it but the other day the convo was about the USA's involvement in WW1 and WW2... no really lol

I can see why you are worried about the post counts dropping when the SB is running but do post counts really matter if its mainly bollocks and spam? I'd rather see a quieter forum that is less intimidating for new members to dive in and post on threads that interest them than a fast paced one. We can keep all our crap to the SB..

IMO its far easier and less scary for a new member to drop into the SB and say "Hi" than to post on a thread and run the risk of being shot down in flames for something.

[DeLeRiuM]

IMO its far easier and less scary for a new member to drop into the SB and say "Hi" than to post on a thread and run the risk of being shot down in flames for something.
I agree, it is also easier to sit and watch and jump in at an opportune time when you feel like you actually have something to say.

Also another thing that I think makes the SB actually more noob friendly is that you are only saying stuff in front of a small part of forum instead of worrying about the first things you said here being read by everyone... That can be some what overwhelming. I know back when I first started at the old forum I felt alil overwhelmed about posting, and would have felt more relaxed if I could have gotten to know more users. Now that I know more people and feel comfortable being myself around them I've become a post and SB aholic :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :angel:

[YetAnotherKitten]

The shoutbox is to the forum what the sun is to the moon, what Yin is to Yang, what male is to female, what Phil Mitchell is to Grant Mitchell, what Uganja is to latent homosexuality ie they are not opposite they go hand in hand.

ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Peace out :meditate:

/me goes back to ignoring Maija


^^^ he just wants to post nasty pictures~~~:ice: :K1:





I didn't post much on the old forum even though I've been playing since the end of 2003. In that sense I am as much a 'noob' to this forum as say Santo Malverde or Sweet Honey. I probably wouldn't feel quite as comfortable ginger baiting Unganja on threads if I didn't do it regularly in the SB.

Oh and KS you must have missed it but the other day the convo was about the USA's involvement in WW1 and WW2... no really lol

I can see why you are worried about the post counts dropping when the SB is running but do post counts really matter if its mainly bollocks and spam? I'd rather see a quieter forum that is less intimidating for new members to dive in and post on threads that interest them than a fast paced one. We can keep all our crap to the SB..

IMO its far easier and less scary for a new member to drop into the SB and say "Hi" than to post on a thread and run the risk of being shot down in flames for something.

^^^ that is due to the users involved--and stemmed from a soccer debate!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

It's the people that make the conversation--not the Shoutbox. We needed a jumps start- we got it.

[Kloaked Spirit]

We've had a lot of good discussions in the SB , unwed mothers - politics - death penalty views - forum ideas - unemployment rates in diff countries.. etc... maybe it all happens when you're sleeping or out to lunch :w00t2:

That has to be it. The SB when I'm on consists of Uginja, the RTOD, and the occasional username change into something funny.

[Buzzin]

The thing i liked about the shotbox is that you could just log on, and join in the convo straight away no matter what it was about. I'll be honest, when we made the move to this forum i thought it was bollocks, and didn't visit it properly for about a month after it was made. But then i noticed the shoutbox which kind of drew me back in and got me more active in the forums again. I've never really been that active in the Open-house sections but thanks to the shoutbox i've met alot of other people.

My vote: Bring it back!

[Cowboy From Hell]

what was the posting average before "The great Forum Hack of 2006"? many people didn't knew a SB existed before that event.

I like the SB, helps know more people, and kill those lazy moments at work or at home.

[Dymond]

Is there no way to control emoticons or images in the Shoutbox controls? I bet there is a config.ini with no images written all over it!

[Beli]

Pro: for me personally, i would probably not even be reading this thread if it wasn't for the shoutbox. i liked to browse the old forum on occasion but very rarely ever posted. i talked to people on the SB that i wouldn't have ever talked to. if a thread came up on the banner above the SB. i had time to go check it out and hop back to the conversation on the SB. so i actually read/post on the forum more while it was here.

Con: yeah some people may have been inappropriate, but i think that is why you have the option to look away. *trying to think of more con-time elapsed 5 minutes* guess that would be it.

maybe could be an option of wether or not you wanted it to appear when you log into the forum?

[DnD]

you can go in the shoutbox and say, hey how is everybody doing this morning? but if i put that shit in a thread its just spam.

[vixen]

If it weren't for the SB I would never have had the chance to talk things out with Naz over the misunderstood post regarding recognition threads. We do have real discussions there and sometimes they are even productive!

I do see how things can be seen as "clique-ish" it always has been like that and always will be no matter if there is an SB or not. There are most assuredly favourites in this forum and there are absolutely people that get to get away with whatever they want.... we will NEVER change this and with or without an SB this will always remain so bring back the SB for those of us who have had the chance to talk to some new people and get to know new friends in the forum :)

[Colander]

I cant see a single thing against it its fantastic to abuse, bully, coerce and generally be horrid to poor unsuspecting noobs.

[Santo]

suggestions people...is there a way to make the forum more user friendly for noobs so that people WILL post in the forum, and ballance it with the SB?


How about start calling them some other way, noob is a derogatory word, i know we don't always use it to make someone feel less, non the less, it's derogatory.

I think the SB helps out to ease into the forum, because it's an intimidatory forum.:ice:

[Nickything]

How about start calling them some other way, noob is a derogatory word, i know we don't always use it to make someone feel less, non the less, it's derogatory.

I think the SB helps out to ease into the forum, because it's an intimidatory forum.:ice:

Agreed! I hate the term It must be so off putting

[Q80Thug]

about one to two days before the shout box was removed, i remember clearly that so warped made about 10 thread in the general section and they had an accumilative replies up to +75, you might say it was all spam, but IMO not all were. what im trying to say is the reduction in posting is not that bad and the reduction was felt by many before it being mentioned now, you have to ask so warped about this but i think it was a fine attempt to kick start the forum again and i bet many more would have done something similar with the SB still being active...

summerise:

*SB should return, but location should be changed and restrict if possible, the image uploading in it is an excellent idea.

*SB is reducing the amount of post and thats a fact. but IMO its not a big deal

*SB got me to know poeple more, feel part of the community and encourage me to interact in the forum.fact

*detol protects. fact. (sorry couldnt resist not saying it)




*balaces all this text with a smilie* :bye:

[The Inebriated Genius]

I am honestly not a fan of the shoutbox.

I, unfortunatly, am not available to hang out in front ny computer.
The Shoutbox has basically made it so that whoever is online is who I'm talking to. The people that I used to enjoy talking with the most happen to be on during differant times.

I used to enjoy the old forum, I could come on for a brief period and hang out with friends. Someone could have said something yesterday at midnight that would have made me laugh, and respond. Someone else would have responded to that, etc, etc.

I've tried coming onto the SB once or twice, but got tired of waiting there for something interesting to be discussed. Its like a TV that only gets 1 channel, whatever happens to be playing is what you're forced to watch.

Some people argue that the Spam has been cut down. It has. In my opinion though, some of my favourite threads have been Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages starting as "X is a Y." Some of these were stupid and died quickly. Others turned into hilarious, random, off the cuff threads that drew everybody closer.

There is more, but I'm running out of steam and I'm out of practice at putting my thoughts into writing.

[-=REMO=-]

I am honestly not a fan of the shoutbox.

I, unfortunatly, am not available to hang out in front ny computer.
The Shoutbox has basically made it so that whoever is online is who I'm talking to. The people that I used to enjoy talking with the most happen to be on during differant times.

I used to enjoy the old forum, I could come on for a brief period and hang out with friends. Someone could have said something yesterday at midnight that would have made me laugh, and respond. Someone else would have responded to that, etc, etc.

I've tried coming onto the SB once or twice, but got tired of waiting there for something interesting to be discussed. Its like a TV that only gets 1 channel, whatever happens to be playing is what you're forced to watch.

Some people argue that the Spam has been cut down. It has. In my opinion though, some of my favourite threads have been Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages starting as "X is a Y." Some of these were stupid and died quickly. Others turned into hilarious, random, off the cuff threads that drew everybody closer.

There is more, but I'm running out of steam and I'm out of practice at putting my thoughts into writing.

Quoted for emphasis.

[RobCheadle]

Unsurprising this subject has generated such a mass debate. I myself am completely split between whether or not it's a good thing or a bad thing. Ultimately I think it depends on how the Admins want oddthought to develop over the months and years to come. Something that the every day oddthough member will most likely not take into account. Anyone thought about the long term effects of the SB on the forum?

Anyway, like I said, still undecided. Here's my pro's and con's


PRO's

1).Improved sense of community in forum for a select few
2).I've got to know 'some' people a 'bit' better
3).It's 'another feature'


CON's
1).Andyy hit the nail on the head when he said 'whilst SB was here the forum was drier than a nun's chuff'
2).Before the SB there was a sense of continuity within the threads in the forum, you didnt miss a thing. I'd log on in the morning and could see/catch up with everything that had happened since I'd been gone. With the SB I couldnt do this. Lots had happened and been discussed but I just missed out on that and there was no way to catch up.
3).So some may say that the SB improved the sense of community, short term yes, but long term I dont think it does, it may enable a 'few' people to get to know each other better but they are small cliques of people who are usually on line at the same time. Without the SB you actually get to know the entire community not just a select few who are on line at the same time as you.

Looks like I'm airing on the side of supporting ditching the SB. In all honesty I'm not really bothered whether it stays or goes, if it stays I will make more of an effort to make the forum a more interesting place to be, as should we all. When all said and done if the forum falls flat on it;s face through lack of interesting stuff to read WE are the one's to blame, not admin.
I do agree with some others though in that if it does come back it should be moved, possibly even off the front page into another area altogether.

[Uganja]

I think the removal of the shoutbox has caused me to save some embarrassment, at least for a few days.

I still miss it though, i think it was a great addition, it means forum users can actually get to know each other better.. without filling my msn contact list up with people who i never talk to.

[Alf uckem]

I think the removal of the shoutbox has caused me to save some embarrassment, at least for a few days.

I still miss it though, i think it was a great addition, it means forum users can actually get to know each other better.. without filling my msn contact list up with people who i never talk to.


you liar you told me i aws the only person you spoke to on msn:bye2:

[Kat]

I only read up to the end of page 3, so forgive me if I'm repeating people.

The only pro I can offer is that many people obviously enjoy/ed the shout box, but having not used it I can't really comment further.

The main problem I have with it is that it's simply not compatible with the way I like to/am able to read the forum. If I'm looking at a thread and my phone rings, I can come back to the thread in a hour or whatever and continue reading, with the SB I can't for obvious reasons.

When I have tried to follow the discussion in shout box I don't find it that interesting. I'm not trying to slag off people who post there - there are many threads I don't find interesting so I choose not to read them, and for that reason (as well as the reason above) I chose not to post in the shout box.

A forum creates a lasting record of conversations, the chat-box doesn't (logs aren't the same, noone will look through them unless they're searching for something specific). The old forum had a sense of history and permenance - this forum doesn't have that yet, and it'll take much longer to get it with the SB in place.

On the subject of spam: I think I might be alone in this, but I'd much rather see a forum full of spam than an empty forum. Spam can be annoying, but it can also be entertaining, and more crucially it can spark off debate - something which this forum seems to be suffering from a lack of. I also think that a lot of what's classed as spam isn't really.

I think the forum generally is too complicated, and the SB is part of that. It has got better (remember all those sub-forums when it first opened? It was just too much trouble to post), but I don't see why we need so many sub-forums and fancy extras. In general discussion there should be an open house area, a serious discussion area and an AIW area (maybe not even that). These 3 are needed because they have different defined rules, other areas are only needed if the volume of posting is so high that posts get buried too quickly. (I have no opinion on the game sections because I don't post there anymore).


Sorry for going off-topic, but the subject implies this is about the forum in general, not just the SB.

Basically, I understand why the SB suits some people, but it doesn't suit me and that's one of the reasons why I haven't been posting that much.

[Buckledmac]

I am honestly not a fan of the shoutbox.

I, unfortunatly, am not available to hang out in front ny computer.
The Shoutbox has basically made it so that whoever is online is who I'm talking to. The people that I used to enjoy talking with the most happen to be on during differant times.

I used to enjoy the old forum, I could come on for a brief period and hang out with friends. Someone could have said something yesterday at midnight that would have made me laugh, and respond. Someone else would have responded to that, etc, etc.

I've tried coming onto the SB once or twice, but got tired of waiting there for something interesting to be discussed. Its like a TV that only gets 1 channel, whatever happens to be playing is what you're forced to watch.

Some people argue that the Spam has been cut down. It has. In my opinion though, some of my favourite threads have been Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages starting as "X is a Y." Some of these were stupid and died quickly. Others turned into hilarious, random, off the cuff threads that drew everybody closer.

There is more, but I'm running out of steam and I'm out of practice at putting my thoughts into writing.

shut it n00b:orign:

[Kloaked Spirit]

June 29, 2006 733

You goofed up here. The total number of posts for June 29th was 533, not 733.

P.S. There is no severe and/or dramatic change in the number of posts that have gone on when the SB was up, and when it wasn't. I've gone all the way back to February to check and see this for myself. We've always averaged between 300-400 new posts/day since April 1st (the time period that the new forum was opened to the public.)

[Bellows]

i dont know where i posted it before, but i think it should definetely make a come back, but i reckon you should put it back down below where it used to live, that way those of us who like it will still 'go down' and anyone else will spam the forums like normal :ice: plus im generally just a big fan of going down anyway :hugs:

[Buckledmac]

but i cant be arsed to scroll down while im at work....reeks of effort that

[Bellows]

your saying you wouldnt 'go down' while at work :blank: yeah it reeks of something....

[The Inebriated Genius]

I only read up to the end of page 3, so forgive me if I'm repeating people.

The only pro I can offer is that many people obviously enjoy/ed the shout box, but having not used it I can't really comment further.

The main problem I have with it is that it's simply not compatible with the way I like to/am able to read the forum. If I'm looking at a thread and my phone rings, I can come back to the thread in a hour or whatever and continue reading, with the SB I can't for obvious reasons.

When I have tried to follow the discussion in shout box I don't find it that interesting. I'm not trying to slag off people who post there - there are many threads I don't find interesting so I choose not to read them, and for that reason (as well as the reason above) I chose not to post in the shout box.

A forum creates a lasting record of conversations, the chat-box doesn't (logs aren't the same, noone will look through them unless they're searching for something specific). The old forum had a sense of history and permenance - this forum doesn't have that yet, and it'll take much longer to get it with the SB in place.
...



This is what I was trying to say in my poorly worded post.
Ignore mine and read this.

[So Warped]

I only read up to the end of page 3, so forgive me if I'm repeating people.

The only pro I can offer is that many people obviously enjoy/ed the shout box, but having not used it I can't really comment further.

The main problem I have with it is that it's simply not compatible with the way I like to/am able to read the forum. If I'm looking at a thread and my phone rings, I can come back to the thread in a hour or whatever and continue reading, with the SB I can't for obvious reasons.

When I have tried to follow the discussion in shout box I don't find it that interesting. I'm not trying to slag off people who post there - there are many threads I don't find interesting so I choose not to read them, and for that reason (as well as the reason above) I chose not to post in the shout box.

A forum creates a lasting record of conversations, the chat-box doesn't (logs aren't the same, noone will look through them unless they're searching for something specific). The old forum had a sense of history and permenance - this forum doesn't have that yet, and it'll take much longer to get it with the SB in place.

On the subject of spam: I think I might be alone in this, but I'd much rather see a forum full of spam than an empty forum. Spam can be annoying, but it can also be entertaining, and more crucially it can spark off debate - something which this forum seems to be suffering from a lack of. I also think that a lot of what's classed as spam isn't really.

I think the forum generally is too complicated, and the SB is part of that. It has got better (remember all those sub-forums when it first opened? It was just too much trouble to post), but I don't see why we need so many sub-forums and fancy extras. In general discussion there should be an open house area, a serious discussion area and an AIW area (maybe not even that). These 3 are needed because they have different defined rules, other areas are only needed if the volume of posting is so high that posts get buried too quickly. (I have no opinion on the game sections because I don't post there anymore).


Sorry for going off-topic, but the subject implies this is about the forum in general, not just the SB.

Basically, I understand why the SB suits some people, but it doesn't suit me and that's one of the reasons why I haven't been posting that much.
The SB and Forum are not in oppositon, if you want to use the SB use it. If you want a lively forum start some new threads and post on the others that are already there.

You might as well take away the arcade also, that must stop people posting because they are playing games instead of reading and replying on threads.

[The Inebriated Genius]

The SB and Forum are not in opposition, if you want to use the SB use it. If you want a lively forum start some new threads and post on the others that are already there.

You might as well take away the arcade also, that must stop people posting because they are playing games instead of reading and replying on threads.

That is completely different and you (should) know it.

The shoutbox doesn't take away from posting because of time sharing.
It takes away because people talk in the shoutbox INSTEAD of the forum.

and yes the SB and forum are in opposition.
If you post something in the SB are you going to go to the forums and make the exact same thread as your shout?

If you can honestly answer yes, then fine. Most people don't like to do things twice though.

[Bellows]

i wish tung posted everything in the forum :ice:

[Kloaked Spirit]

That is completely different and you (should) know it.

The shoutbox doesn't take away from posting because of time sharing.
It takes away because people talk in the shoutbox INSTEAD of the forum.

and yes the SB and forum are in opposition.
If you post something in the SB are you going to go to the forums and make the exact same thread as your shout?

If you can honestly answer yes, then fine. Most people don't like to do things twice though.

But the administration logs show no significant change at all, regardless of SB location or existence. Even though I thought that it did made some effect on the spam, it didn't cut into the average number of total posts made. Therefore people (read: community at large) are still talking in the forums with the same frequency regardless of the shoutbox's existance.

So if this is the case, what is the SB really taking away?

[So Warped]

That is completely different and you (should) know it.

The shoutbox doesn't take away from posting because of time sharing.
It takes away because people talk in the shoutbox INSTEAD of the forum.

and yes the SB and forum are in opposition.
If you post something in the SB are you going to go to the forums and make the exact same thread as your shout?

If you can honestly answer yes, then fine. Most people don't like to do things twice though.

The posts people make in the shoutbox and the posts in the forum are very different.
The posts in the Shoutbox are usually one liners and the topics can change every 2 minutes.
The posts in the forum are usually more linear and have a more substantial feel to them.

I can't see what the fuss is, it's just another aspect of oddthought. If people want a lively forum go and post some new threads and reply to others.

If you don't, don't.

If it wasn't for the Shoutbox I would still be ignoring Uganja, now I tolerate him.
Thank you, shoutbox

[Buckledmac]

wot KS & SW said

also another thing i need to add to the debate:

seeing as im always at work and have missed half the bloody world cup, it was great to be able to post in shoutbox regarding games and get immediate response on current scores etc etc

YAY SHOUTBOX

[Kloaked Spirit]

Just from a statistical point of view:

Average # of posts per day from 4/1 (date forum opened to the public) to May 23rd (Date before the forum got wiped) = 385 ppd. This was when the SB either didn't exist or was rarely used because it was at the bottom of the forum and no one remembered it even existed.

------------------------

I skipped May 24th because it had the posts for that day as 4. This was clearly as a result of the forum wipe, but I excluded it as it'd be a huge outlier for either average.

------------------------

From May 25th to current - 365 ppd. This is when the SB was up at the top, and this average didn't get the advantage of a huge rush of posting that occurred when the forum first opened and everyone spammed to be the top poster. That's a drop of about 5%. Given that most people agree that the lost posts were more spam then much of anything else, I'd be willing to say there hasn't been a significant drop in quality posting for people to participate in.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Threads per day statistics

4/1 - 5/23 = 28.9 threads per day

5/24 is excluded. The # of threads made that day was 1.

5/25 - current = 30.7 threads per day, an increase of 7%.

-----------------------

Odd Fact: The two days where the most threads were created were during the time period where the SB was at the top of the forum, but it wasn't the period immediately after the forum wipe. It was a good week or so later. I don't remember it taking that long for us to get the sections of the forum rebuilt.

[Buckledmac]

ooo KS just proved it, SB back at top is way to go(although i may be somewhat biased)

[-=REMO=-]

You keep referring to the fact that there were as many posts before the shoutbox went up to the top of the page as there were after it did.

This is true, however it is also true that prior to the forum wipe, navigating the sub-forums was a complete bitch and thus people weren't posting as often as normal, ask just about anyone and they'll confirm it.

Now think about this, after the hacker did us the favour of making you restructure the forums in a more user-friendly way, there should have been an increase in the number of posts. How do you explain the fact that the average dropped by 20 posts per day when it should have increased?

[Kloaked Spirit]

You keep referring to the fact that there were as many posts before the shoutbox went up to the top of the page as there were after it did.

This is true, however it is also true that prior to the forum wipe, navigating the sub-forums was a complete bitch and thus people weren't posting as often as normal, ask just about anyone and they'll confirm it.

Now think about this, after the hacker did us the favour of making you restructure the forums in a more user-friendly way, there should have been an increase in the number of posts. How do you explain the fact that the average dropped by 20 posts per day when it should have increased?

Less spam. It wouldn't be a hard guess to say that most of that 20 posts per day were just posts of little value - the sort of stuff you'd see quite often in the SB. Hell if you want me to bring that average up I'll just reopen the RTOD. I'll get that average back up within a week.

Now, explain how the SB lead to more topics being created, yet less posting overall. We have less spam overall with the SB is up, so the threads being created are generally of more merit. Yet you guys choose not to contribute to those threads because...?

[RedRum]

i likd the SB cuz it was easer to to haddle than jumping from therd to therd every one was it one place

[Maija]

Threads per day statistics

4/1 - 5/23 = 28.9 threads per day

5/24 is excluded. The # of threads made that day was 1.

5/25 - current = 30.7 threads per day, an increase of 7%.

-----------------------

Odd Fact: The two days where the most threads were created were during the time period where the SB was at the top of the forum, but it wasn't the period immediately after the forum wipe. It was a good week or so later. I don't remember it taking that long for us to get the sections of the forum rebuilt.


All hail the gods of math and science. First Stephen Hawking, and now KS, has proved that the shoutbox exists. :w00t2:

[The Inebriated Genius]

Threads per day statistics

4/1 - 5/23 = 28.9 threads per day

5/24 is excluded. The # of threads made that day was 1.

5/25 - current = 30.7 threads per day, an increase of 7%.

-----------------------

Odd Fact: The two days where the most threads were created were during the time period where the SB was at the top of the forum, but it wasn't the period immediately after the forum wipe. It was a good week or so later. I don't remember it taking that long for us to get the sections of the forum rebuilt.

So I guess its just the new forum itself that has contributed to the decline of content

[So Warped]

So I guess its just the new forum itself that has contributed to the decline of content

You could always post again, it declined after you left.

[Maija]

So I guess its just the new forum itself that has contributed to the decline of content

I think the old forum was on a bit of a decline right before the new one anyway. A lot of the posters who gave the old forum it's spark have been MIA ever since. Ex: bossa, kat, yerma, TIG, p-style, spizun, hobbels, DTT, shmoo (pops his head in here occasionally), Rex Mundi, Matt (did he come under a different name?)

A quick look at the top posters of the old forum shows that only 27 of the top 50 are still active around here. Of course, So Warped counts as 25 people in the new forum. :bye:

[YetAnotherKitten]

lol there was plenty of spamming going on while the sb was up... some of us just like to post random crap -- its always going to happen becuase we don't always want to be serious. btw the shitbox sucks ass.

[Buckledmac]

wot happened to Rex ? damn he cracked me up lol has he even reg'd in this new forum?

[Cushion]

ive heard Si is gunna kill himself it the SB isnt back soon, only a rumour thou lol

[Jacx]

But the administration logs show no significant change at all, regardless of SB location or existence. Even though I thought that it did made some effect on the spam, it didn't cut into the average number of total posts made. Therefore people (read: community at large) are still talking in the forums with the same frequency regardless of the shoutbox's existance.

So if this is the case, what is the SB really taking away?


A number of people say they will NOT use the forums now because of the SB, becuase of what people like kat and IBG posted. People cannot contribute to convos that dissapeared in a SB. It dont work.

U say the post count is not down, i dissagree, i think it is down, becuase people are put off the forum by the SB...if you want to contribute to a forum, and read peoples thoughts about subjects, u need to be able to read lines of text...the SB makes people lazy, they post thoughts in there instead, and people answer fast and quick..meansing the subject is lost too all others.

But thats my thoughts only!

also:

June 22, 2006 209
June 23, 2006 286
June 24, 2006 316
June 25, 2006 256
June 26, 2006 329
June 27, 2006 377
June 28, 2006 941
June 29, 2006 533
June 30, 2006 632

that to me shows post increase...now obvoiously it would increase..as there is no SB...point is, are the posts valid??

You mentioned that threads are no on the increase...well so what..that might be becuase people are actually taking more time to read them and contribute to them?


June 22, 2006 13
June 23, 2006 36
June 24, 2006 23
June 25, 2006 22
June 26, 2006 30
June 27, 2006 28
June 28, 2006 46
June 29, 2006 33
June 30, 2006 41

[Jacx]

Oh and one more thing...bug fixed...Sb is back live and at bottom for forum now.

Still, i hope people will try and contribute by ballancing posting and SB.

Looks like debate over...funny enought...its been a long ole thread till now, almost shame for it to end.

[Smash Bros]

i have a few things to say aswell jacx :P

when i first joined the old forum i was scared to post and talk to people and i still am sort of intimidated by some people by their rep around here.

with the old forum every month or so it would pretty much die completly and would take a few people (like me and tca at one stage) to liven it up and get more people posting. i dont mind being banned for spamming heaps everywhere to get people to post more. i enjoy it and i can come back a day or so later and join in on the convos.

here it is harder to do. the rules are tougher for one and it is harder to navigate. i still get lost.

when this first opened i didnt post much and some people were cheering cause of it but alot of people stopped posting. and since the hack i started again (sort of) now i actually check more parts of the forum and part of that is due to the SB being at the top right under the banner of new posts. i didnt join in much in the sb but i did sit there and read it every now and again or just ignore it.

IMHO what does the sb have to do with anything in here. if i want to spam im still going to even if the sb is still there i will just tell people about my spam spree in the sb while i spam.

some of the bad things about the sb though was the pics. get rid of them and emoticons in there, make it so it is words only. if someone wants to use emoticons to make a point they can make a thread about it.

and a way to make this place more noob friendly is to have a place for them to start in and meet people slowly and get to know them before jumping to conclusions due to past expereinces or things that have happened in the past.

[So Warped]

KS uses this http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=115661 to get his statistics.