Let's pretend that you're a forum administrator.

[Kloaked Spirit]

I'm making this thread for one reason; if you want us to take what you have to say, then we're going to need some serious feedback and rationale which takes everything into consideration. No offense, but a thread which allows people to post saying "unban tca" really doesn't help us because it doesn't really go into details as to why. Plus people are being added to the list just for posting in it. This includes people that have stated that he deserved the ban. That's not really what we'd like to call an objective petition.

So I'm placing you in our shoes for the feedback portion. There are no right or wrong answers here, but anything that you place here may be subject to scrutiny, follow up questions, explanations for your thoughts, etc. We're really going to see how you handle situations like this to get a better feel for the forum. If you're going to just come in here and give a "unban tca" response, we won't take it seriously. Serious, well thought of answers will be at least taken into consideration by the staff. It may not change the outcome overall, but we're looking to you to possibly shed a new viewpoint we haven't thought up of yet.

Beginning Question: How should we handle popular/well liked troublemakers from now on?

The phrase popular/well liked really has to come into play here. If the person in question is neither, than no one usually gives a shit. Now, if we were to unban tca, then how fair is that to those that follow the same path he has followed and doesn't have as many supporters backing him up?

Plus, let's not forget the fact that we're supposed to work toward being fair and balanced with the punishments. It was to keep us from playing favorites. Should we toss that out the window now if someone well liked gets punished for it? Or do we maintain a fair and consistent set of rules with everyone?

Example: If you modify tca's ban, what do you do with Bambi's ban?

Now, Bambi is generally a piece of shit on here. There's no denying that. However, if you took Bambi's route to being permabanned (which we all know usually gets reversed in 6 months anyway; just ask Tung,) and replaced "flaming outside of A/I/W" with "Spamming the hell out of the forum," Bambi's story will be a perfect mimic of tca's.

- Both faced a multitude of bans caused by infractions for doing the same shit over and over (tca has been banned 3-4 times in 2 months based on earning infraction points alone. Also remember that the forum moderates itself, so that means you've reported enough of his posts or he's done things so blatantly so often that he's earned this amount of points ;)

- Both consistently used multiple accounts to try to post or talk in the SB while serving the ban time when banned (we've just recently banned accounts again for both parties;)

- Both have attempted to use staff to repeal bans given by other staff members;

- While I can't state for Bambi, it wouldn't surprise me if both gave the standard forum rebel response of "fuck the forum, I'm going for a permaban, blah blah blah;"

- Both show zero sign of ever changing and stopping what they've been doing even if we were to give them another chance;

- Both are veteran members of the forum, and are well aware of the fact that as you continue to screw up, the punishments get worse and worse; and finally

- Both were banned under the exact same rationale of escalated offenses. Tca's last offense by itself wouldn't have caused the extended ban. Then again neither would Bambi's last offense. Neither would have Tung's last offense when he was banned for 6 months. However, in all 3 of those cases, we had to take the past offenses into account.

Now remember as staff your goal is to be as fair, consistent, and objective as possible when dealing with punishments/infractions/how to handle cases. So, now I leave it to you. How do you handle the two situations?

*Sidenote: We already have things being discussed. I didn't post them due to wanting to be as little influence as possible.*

[Infidel]

when you answer this question let the mods and admins of gc know. they're having problems deciding what to do with me

edit:
wait you said well liked/popular people, nvm, looks like im not a part of this lol

[Kloaked Spirit]

when you answer this question let the mods and admins of gc know. they're having problems deciding what to do with me

edit:
wait you said well liked/popular people, nvm, looks like im not a part of this lol

You can play the Bambi role, and how what they decide for the popular crowd should also affect what they do for the less popular people.

[Kloaked Spirit]

- Placeholder that will be replaced with anything that Tca wishes to state on this situation. -

[Infidel]

You can play the Bambi role, and how what they decide for the popular crowd should also affect what they do for the less popular people.

imo, everyone should be subjected to the same rules. although it would be nice to know what the punishments are for certain offenses and to what extent they will be increased for continued offenses/further offenses.

i don't know how the forum works, but in my opinion any ban over a month is just telling the player to never come back

[Smash Bros]

ok first with bambi.

what he said was wrong to forum members outside of teh dedicated area. take into example sin. more then 1 person hated it and alot of people would of reported it aswell as got on peoples nerves.

with tca he spammed and then used other peoples account to continue posting in here. he didnt steal them they were leant to him with the owner fully aware of what was going to happen about it all.

because of the 2 different natures of the banning (one flaming other spamming) you would then have to use any constent factors involved with both of them. eg peoples responses. yes it would seem biased and in reality it is. BUT it is the only constant thing in both.

if, say a post is reported, then after a certain amount of reports the person would receive an infraction for that said post. if it is the same report for numerous posts then it should be handled more seriously as it is shown that the said person continously does it. ALTHOUGH if it is a one off thing or, say, something that happens weekly/daily the resulting action taken would defer on severity.

On that note though there should also be a section that should show how many infractions each person has and what for available to the whole forum so that everyone can see exactly what is going on and what each person has been banned/reported for.

[Uganja]

Both forum members gave blatant disregard to the rules in their approach to the forum.

TCA had his spamming, bambi had his general being a pain in the arse and getting a kick out of being disliked.

The infractions themselves (although different in nature) are no different in severity.
Its more a case of it being a popularity contest hence why TCA has his own thread and I had my throat jumped down for "sticking up for bambi", which in a way is absolutely ridiculous.... but in another way, its a forum community (with emphasis on the word community), so hardly suprising..... people are here as friends who share a common interest in an online game.

In my opinion the forum needs both those who are popular, and those who are not. Its what keeps it interesting.
However, what the forum also needs, is a set of rules and regulations that people need to abide by regardless of their popularity.

Thing I really don't get, is the infractions thing, as far as i'm aware I don't have any (true?) - I've been here years and never been banned, i feel completely free to post whatever i want to, as long as i get it in the right section.
The forum rules are certainly not restrictive to me, and i as a personality in the real world, have a problem with authority.

Those who get themselves in these situations (in this case we're talking about TCA and bambi) are generally the victims of their own self fullfilling prophecy, they want to break the rules because it makes them feel bad ass. But once the ban's come into play and the possibility of getting kicked out settles in, they'll miss it so much they're begging to come back. Their mission to become e-cool and popular on the forum, shoots them in the foot

So let them suffer the consequences, that's why the rules are there.
I think you guys have a tough job on your hands, granted, but i think you're doing what you need to do, and have the same set of rules for everyone, regardless of popularity. Thats what moderation is about.

[Smash Bros]

Both forum members gave blatant disregard to the rules in their approach to the forum.

TCA had his spamming, bambi had his general being a pain in the arse and getting a kick out of being disliked.

The infractions themselves (although different in nature) are no different in severity.
Its more a case of it being a popularity contest hence why TCA has his own thread and I had my throat jumped down for "sticking up for bambi", which in a way is absolutely ridiculous.... but in another way, its a forum community (with emphasis on the word community), so hardly suprising..... people are here as friends who share a common interest in an online game.

In my opinion the forum needs both those who are popular, and those who are not. Its what keeps it interesting.
However, what the forum also needs, is a set of rules and regulations that people need to abide by regardless of their popularity.

Thing I really don't get, is the infractions thing, as far as i'm aware I don't have any (true?) - I've been here years and never been banned, i feel completely free to post whatever i want to, as long as i get it in the right section.
The forum rules are certainly not restrictive to me, and i as a personality in the real world, have a problem with authority.

Those who get themselves in these situations (in this case we're talking about TCA and bambi) are generally the victims of their own self fullfilling prophecy, they want to break the rules because it makes them feel bad ass. But once the ban's come into play and the possibility of getting kicked out settles in, they'll miss it so much they're begging to come back. Their mission to become e-cool and popular on the forum, shoots them in the foot

So let them suffer the consequences, that's why the rules are there.
I think you guys have a tough job on your hands, granted, but i think you're doing what you need to do, and have the same set of rules for everyone, regardless of popularity. Thats what moderation is about.



go to your cp and it will show you if you have any.


also with the posting in the right section part. bambi disregarded that part and was therefore banned for it. which imho is fair as he broke the rules.

although with tca as he was spamming that part is allowed to go into the AIW section. and here i quote

Open House Accusations, Insults and Bloody Whining! A place to talk as much shite as you like unmoderated, with the exception of racist comments and pictures of users posted without permission! (Unless posted already)


so therefore should be allowed to post anything that he wishes aslong as it is not racist or pics of another user. sooo with sticking with the already set up forum rules in any AIW section he is allowed to post spam as it is Unmoderated. although i do say if it gets too bad(like 100 posts in 5 min) then i refer it to my post above.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

ok lets break this down several ways

1.in the "real world" what bambi has done is actually a crime, falsely acusing people of raping children... there is no crime in spamming a forum..

2. bambi made multis(yes im guilty of this in the past too) tca used friends accounts

3. bambi was verbally attacking people in sensitive areas i.e. talking smack bout vixens mom when she has cancer. tca basically was just making a clown of himself and not other forum members

4. other members of forum did same thing that day and received a less harsh punishment even so they did use other accounts afterwards.. why so harsh on tca just cause he mouthed off.seems his punishment is more of him mouthing off to staff(which there isnt or shouldnt be a rule for)

5. overall bambi made the forum horrible with constant attacks on everyone with no consideration with what was said. tca barely attacked anyone cept his spam buddies.

6. saying what tca and bambi did are equal and deserve equal punishment is nuts, as i stated before he stated repeatedly over years time bout someone rapng there child which is a couple of actual crimes( falsely accusing people, libel) and could actually cause problems for this forum if someone were to pursue legal action against him or the forum if allowed to continue.

7. as shown an overwelming amount of people dont think his ban was just. should it go unpunished, no. but to be punished the length of someone who has commited actual crimes is crazy.

as for the way things should be handled in my opinion. he should be punished according to the rules stated in forum... he got his infractions and should serve his week and thats it...if he spams again then follow same rules..also state in rules not to use someones account and put in a length in the rules if someone does, as it stands now, i just see a rule for multis but actually no specific punishment for it.

i would support any forum member to the lengths i have if i thought the punishment was unjust, even bambi.
but as far as bambi is concerned the punishment he has recieved and the blatant disregard for any sort of human decency and the lack of any sort of positive contribution prevents me from doing so and i agree he should not be a member of this forum.

in the forums long history there has been no person i can remember who comes close to being as horible to everyone and hated as much as bambi (hence the reason for his lack of popularity)..tca has been freinds with almost everyone(hence the reason he is well liked)

as for exact answers to your questions ks...

if someone is popular they actually are benefiting the forum and make it lively and a place people come to more often.. if someone is unpopular and dragging the forum down and chasing people away then its hurting the forum..
so yes people that are popular and that mass quantities of forum users enjoy being around should be treated better unless they are actually doing stuff like bambi , then i doubt they would be popular anymore.

as for what to do with bambis ban if tca's is lifted.. i say keep it in place..i understand the same rational was used in punishing both , but the crimes and infractions are not even close to being comparable as i have stated above. bambi is a blight to this forum that not more than 5 people can tolerate , whereas tons of people enjoy tca presence even so some might get semi anoyed over spamming...

thank you for at least opening a meaningful dialogue and taking the time to at least listen to the forum users on this matter. i hope my reasonings helped

[Flashman]

TCA is "well liked" ?:O

[Asshole]

Ok ive been here like 4 years, most of the mods and admins/ex mods and admins have served less time, and incase people dont remember the original rules of which there was 4 or 5 and only took into account really serious misdemeanours was invented in the improvements section, my brainchild (i can be serious when the need arises)

But since then the rules have escalated and ballooned and the forum becomes more like a nazi ca,p than a place where people come freeley to discuss and express themselves, while i dont know what bambi did to get banned he wasent hard to handle a few flames and he would run off crying, people need to rise above his insults its an online forum expect some shit its part and parcel of an online drugs community..

as for TCA this ban is shit, we all know the forums been on the decline and we can all attribute this to the inflation of rules and the policed sections which are now sections in sections etc etc, but we can also attribute it to the lack of the charactersm whys that??> its because you keep banning us for things that you would have ROFL'd at on the old forum, i served a ban for an extremley petty reason a while back, what is considered a junior member complained about my post and i wasent even asked to explain it, but i did with jacx in the sb and it was generally accepted after i explained my reasoning behind it (check sb logs if you like) how can you not see people like myself and tca, people who have been here years, made the community laugh for years deserve a bit of leniancy we dont deserve to be permabanned for something you would have laughed at before that stick was shoved up your arse so you could sit straight on the high horse youve been given

simple reasoning here if an infraction would result in a ban, ban them for two days and try to contact the person, if they have a half decent excuse let the ban expire after 2 days, if not then procceed with the ban, people deserve the right to explain themselves

but still all the rules and regs here now are stupid, think back to a time the forum was fun, when its wasent modded so much and the community took care of its own

quick post as i need to get back to work will elaborate more if needed later on

[Shanna]

imo, everyone should be subjected to the same rules. although it would be nice to know what the punishments are for certain offenses and to what extent they will be increased for continued offenses/further offenses.

i don't know how the forum works, but in my opinion any ban over a month is just telling the player to never come back

yep yep...:)

[hoos]

Ok ive been here like 4 years, most of the mods and admins/ex mods and admins have served less time, and incase people dont remember the original rules of which there was 4 or 5 and only took into account really serious misdemeanours was invented in the improvements section, my brainchild (i can be serious when the need arises)

But since then the rules have escalated and ballooned and the forum becomes more like a nazi ca,p than a place where people come freeley to discuss and express themselves, while i dont know what bambi did to get banned he wasent hard to handle a few flames and he would run off crying, people need to rise above his insults its an online forum expect some shit its part and parcel of an online drugs community..

as for TCA this ban is shit, we all know the forums been on the decline and we can all attribute this to the inflation of rules and the policed sections which are now sections in sections etc etc, but we can also attribute it to the lack of the charactersm whys that??> its because you keep banning us for things that you would have ROFL'd at on the old forum, i served a ban for an extremley petty reason a while back, what is considered a junior member complained about my post and i wasent even asked to explain it, but i did with jacx in the sb and it was generally accepted after i explained my reasoning behind it (check sb logs if you like) how can you not see people like myself and tca, people who have been here years, made the community laugh for years deserve a bit of leniancy we dont deserve to be permabanned for something you would have laughed at before that stick was shoved up your arse so you could sit straight on the high horse youve been given

simple reasoning here if an infraction would result in a ban, ban them for two days and try to contact the person, if they have a half decent excuse let the ban expire after 2 days, if not then procceed with the ban, people deserve the right to explain themselves

but still all the rules and regs here now are stupid, think back to a time the forum was fun, when its wasent modded so much and the community took care of its own

quick post as i need to get back to work will elaborate more if needed later on

I agree with this assessment of the forum. It is being heavily policed like it is a public company who has a reputation to uphold in the eyes of the media. We got away with tons of shit back in the day and I don't see much of that (if any) anymore. I know that people like WorldCrisis would never survive here anymore because someone's feelings would get hurt, he'd get reported, and then be banned by a mod having a bad day. I'm not trying to take a shot at you guys, but saying that rationale goes out the window sometimes when one of you is in a pissy mood.

I don't know what either tca or Bambi did to get banned. I remember Bambi never contributed to anything so I don't care too much about that. If someone wouldn't mind paraphrasing what happened in a PM to me, that'd be great, and I'll give a further opinion on that matter.


And good idea, putting this here. It's an actual serious discussion.

[Grendel]

Popularity shouldn't come into it.

If people knowingly break the rules then they should accept the consequences of their actions.

[Asshole]

Thought this deserves to go here too, it was a response i posted to dymond in the aiw thread:


I know this gets used a lot but im gonna have to say it:

You werent around in the old days, you dont know how the forum was built, whats its starting blocks where, it was founded on people taking the piss out of each other and finding a mutual respect through it, it worked, being unmodded (except deletion of spam) worked, because people said what they thought, others respected it and we moved on, this is not a multi-million dollar company that needs to save face, its a place to express your veiws concerns and ideas, and express yourself, and if your sensitive to flaming hold yourself back a bit, its called the school of hard knocks.

it worked before and it will work again, ok so occasionally a mod had to clean up a thread because you had people flaming in a thread about members pets but thats what they are there for!! not to make a new rule so they no longer have to deal with it. then permabamming a vet whos spent years making people laugh on the forum, and in the case of tca a member who has taken thier knocks on here and rolled with it, just to protect the new members.. its like this no racism shit.. you were in teh sb when i was explaining the reasoning behind the post and everybody in the SB was saying:

"WOW.. a bit of controversy and some real discussion this is FUN, more fun than the usual crap in here"

so here we go: I hate niggers.. so make an example and permaban me.. because thats all the mods do now right? make nanny style rules and then push a vet out so the new guys dont step out of line

[Kloaked Spirit]

ok lets break this down several ways

1.in the "real world" what bambi has done is actually a crime, falsely acusing people of raping children... there is no crime in spamming a forum..

2. bambi made multis(yes im guilty of this in the past too) tca used friends accounts

3. bambi was verbally attacking people in sensitive areas i.e. talking smack bout vixens mom when she has cancer. tca basically was just making a clown of himself and not other forum members

4. other members of forum did same thing that day and received a less harsh punishment even so they did use other accounts afterwards.. why so harsh on tca just cause he mouthed off.seems his punishment is more of him mouthing off to staff(which there isnt or shouldnt be a rule for)

5. overall bambi made the forum horrible with constant attacks on everyone with no consideration with what was said. tca barely attacked anyone cept his spam buddies.

6. saying what tca and bambi did are equal and deserve equal punishment is nuts, as i stated before he stated repeatedly over years time bout someone rapng there child which is a couple of actual crimes( falsely accusing people, libel) and could actually cause problems for this forum if someone were to pursue legal action against him or the forum if allowed to continue.

7. as shown an overwelming amount of people dont think his ban was just. should it go unpunished, no. but to be punished the length of someone who has commited actual crimes is crazy.

as for the way things should be handled in my opinion. he should be punished according to the rules stated in forum... he got his infractions and should serve his week and thats it...if he spams again then follow same rules..also state in rules not to use someones account and put in a length in the rules if someone does, as it stands now, i just see a rule for multis but actually no specific punishment for it.

i would support any forum member to the lengths i have if i thought the punishment was unjust, even bambi.
but as far as bambi is concerned the punishment he has recieved and the blatant disregard for any sort of human decency and the lack of any sort of positive contribution prevents me from doing so and i agree he should not be a member of this forum.

in the forums long history there has been no person i can remember who comes close to being as horible to everyone and hated as much as bambi (hence the reason for his lack of popularity)..tca has been freinds with almost everyone(hence the reason he is well liked)

as for exact answers to your questions ks...

if someone is popular they actually are benefiting the forum and make it lively and a place people come to more often.. if someone is unpopular and dragging the forum down and chasing people away then its hurting the forum..
so yes people that are popular and that mass quantities of forum users enjoy being around should be treated better unless they are actually doing stuff like bambi , then i doubt they would be popular anymore.

as for what to do with bambis ban if tca's is lifted.. i say keep it in place..i understand the same rational was used in punishing both , but the crimes and infractions are not even close to being comparable as i have stated above. bambi is a blight to this forum that not more than 5 people can tolerate , whereas tons of people enjoy tca presence even so some might get semi anoyed over spamming...

thank you for at least opening a meaningful dialogue and taking the time to at least listen to the forum users on this matter. i hope my reasonings helped

*Disclaimer: The thoughts expressed during this thread are only my own at this time. Other members of the staff may see things differently and are welcome to speak on their own behalf. With any final results, those results will come at the hands of the majority of the staff, not just myself. That is why it's good to say something regardless of your stance on this item.*

Here's the problem with libel. If we were to treat someone different based off of committing the crime of "libel" then half this forum would be under harsh punishment. Libel is nothing more than making derogatory remarks toward someone that probably aren't true. We do this all the time to one another. It's called flaming each other. The reason why there aren't many civil suits over flaming is simply because the remarks are never going to bring forth monetary damages. So realistically they're equally just as horrible of a crime.

Tca also made multis both this time and in the past, and has admitted to such activity. In fact if I could recall the direct statements from friends, they were claiming how he only really made "one multi" this time. Now, the rules we have for using multi accounts to get around a ban are clearly stated. If we were to allow someone to use another person's account to post in the SB or on the forums while banned, then what would be the point of not allowing multi accounts for the same purpose? As far as the banning of the other person's account goes, that's actually been an unwritten rule since the old forum. It's been so long that someone's actually done that though that we forgot about adding it in the common rules.

Speaking of that, you did bring up a great point in the fact that people were misinformed/malinformed of everything that went into the decision. Communication about that will probably help in the future and we can find ideas for that as well.

You asked about why his punishment was more severe. This is due to the fact that he has a history of doing this stuff. Remember he has earned enough infraction points to have been banned 3-4 times in a 2 month period for this sort of stuff. Not to mention that during those previous bannings, he also made more multis and did much of the same thing he's done now. It's becoming more obvious at that time that a harsher punishment needs to be done because the 1-week punishment isn't doing anything by itself. That is why the punishment has to be more severe. As far as mouthing off to staff goes, while it isn't a rule, you have to imagine that it's going to make us less likely to have any sort of leniency for anyone when it comes to determining what needs to happen in certain circumstances. It's kind of like telling the judge to go fuck his/herself before they've given the sentence, you know?

I think that covers pretty much everything that you had to say. If not, let me know and I'll address that as well.

[Todd]

Also remember that the forum moderates itself, so that means you've reported enough of his posts or he's done things so blatantly so often that he's earned this amount of points ;)



I'm not around much and have no real idea what what TCA's been up too, (guessing the usual spam) so excuse me if im way of course here, but here's my opinion....

From my understanding moderators are here to keep the forum and it's members safe and happy. So, on the point of popular trouble makers, to me (unless the offence is very serious) the forum members should be allowed to deside if the offender should be banned. As this would clearly show whats best for the forum seen as it's what would make the majority happy.

Because if this popular person broke the rules in a bad/nasty way, eg - talking about incest and molesting children, making cruel comments about sick family members etc, he/she would'nt be liked anymore anyway. So there would'nt be any petitions or arguing to get them unbanned...

People arn't complaining about Bambi been banned so it was clearly best for the forum, many people are complaining about TCA's......

Like i said i haven't been around much latley so im not really aware of his latest stunts.

Also im not here to stick up for Jesse, i haven't talked to him in a few weeks now, thats just how i'd think of a forum that "moderates itself".

[Dymond]

Both forum members gave blatant disregard to the rules in their approach to the forum.

TCA had his spamming, bambi had his general being a pain in the arse and getting a kick out of being disliked.

The infractions themselves (although different in nature) are no different in severity.
Its more a case of it being a popularity contest hence why TCA has his own thread and I had my throat jumped down for "sticking up for bambi", which in a way is absolutely ridiculous.... but in another way, its a forum community (with emphasis on the word community), so hardly suprising..... people are here as friends who share a common interest in an online game.

In my opinion the forum needs both those who are popular, and those who are not. Its what keeps it interesting.
However, what the forum also needs, is a set of rules and regulations that people need to abide by regardless of their popularity.

Thing I really don't get, is the infractions thing, as far as i'm aware I don't have any (true?) - I've been here years and never been banned, i feel completely free to post whatever i want to, as long as i get it in the right section.
The forum rules are certainly not restrictive to me, and i as a personality in the real world, have a problem with authority.

Those who get themselves in these situations (in this case we're talking about TCA and bambi) are generally the victims of their own self fullfilling prophecy, they want to break the rules because it makes them feel bad ass. But once the ban's come into play and the possibility of getting kicked out settles in, they'll miss it so much they're begging to come back. Their mission to become e-cool and popular on the forum, shoots them in the foot

So let them suffer the consequences, that's why the rules are there.
I think you guys have a tough job on your hands, granted, but i think you're doing what you need to do, and have the same set of rules for everyone, regardless of popularity. Thats what moderation is about.

Honestly I don't think I can add anything to what Jay said here. It really isn't that hard to just post where your supposed to. There is nothing wrong with stirring up shit in the AIW but keep it there. If somebody announces the birth of their child, is that really the right place for a personal attack?

As for spamming the forum and spamming in general.. I can't speak for forum spam but I can tell you that email spamming is actually an illegal act. You fill the forum with useless posts and people will stop coming to the forum because its its just not worth it to find the post worth reading in the waste of pointless drivel. Honestly I told Jesse to just knock it off and he would be back shortly, but when he started borrowing other users accounts to start spamming the forum I knew he was digging his own grave at that point. For those of you that lent Jesse your account well shame on you for being that naive.

I do like Jesse and I would like to see him back but I also respect Ridge and the admins for their decision because really he made a small matter worse by accessing the multiple accounts and spamming the forum with them.

[Stinger]

Both forum members gave blatant disregard to the rules in their approach to the forum.

TCA had his spamming, bambi had his general being a pain in the arse and getting a kick out of being disliked.

The infractions themselves (although different in nature) are no different in severity.
Its more a case of it being a popularity contest hence why TCA has his own thread and I had my throat jumped down for "sticking up for bambi", which in a way is absolutely ridiculous.... but in another way, its a forum community (with emphasis on the word community), so hardly suprising..... people are here as friends who share a common interest in an online game.

In my opinion the forum needs both those who are popular, and those who are not. Its what keeps it interesting.
However, what the forum also needs, is a set of rules and regulations that people need to abide by regardless of their popularity.

Thing I really don't get, is the infractions thing, as far as i'm aware I don't have any (true?) - I've been here years and never been banned, i feel completely free to post whatever i want to, as long as i get it in the right section.
The forum rules are certainly not restrictive to me, and i as a personality in the real world, have a problem with authority.

Those who get themselves in these situations (in this case we're talking about TCA and bambi) are generally the victims of their own self fullfilling prophecy, they want to break the rules because it makes them feel bad ass. But once the ban's come into play and the possibility of getting kicked out settles in, they'll miss it so much they're begging to come back. Their mission to become e-cool and popular on the forum, shoots them in the foot

So let them suffer the consequences, that's why the rules are there.
I think you guys have a tough job on your hands, granted, but i think you're doing what you need to do, and have the same set of rules for everyone, regardless of popularity. Thats what moderation is about.

Popularity shouldn't come into it.

If people knowingly break the rules then they should accept the consequences of their actions.

Honestly I don't think I can add anything to what Jay said here. It really isn't that hard to just post where your supposed to. There is nothing wrong with stirring up shit in the AIW but keep it there. If somebody announces the birth of their child, is that really the right place for a personal attack?

As for spamming the forum and spamming in general.. I can't speak for forum spam but I can tell you that email spamming is actually an illegal act. You fill the forum with useless posts and people will stop coming to the forum because its its just not worth it to find the post worth reading in the waste of pointless drivel. Honestly I told Jesse to just knock it off and he would be back shortly, but when he started borrowing other users accounts to start spamming the forum I knew he was digging his own grave at that point. For those of you that lent Jesse your account well shame on you for being that naive.

I do like Jesse and I would like to see him back but I also respect Ridge and the admins for their decision because really he made a small matter worse by accessing the multiple accounts and spamming the forum with them.

Here. Here.
Not much more can be said.
Even a forum can learn from its mistakes and grow.
I could actually name a few others who are in this same "predicament",
but there is little point.
:angel:

[HellRaiser]

I want to first state I am not making my responses in regards to TCA or Bambi punishments, just in general.

Beginning Question: How should we handle popular/well liked troublemakers from now on?

It shouldn't be an issue if one is popular or not, that is called favoritism or Hollywood stars? lol.
But you mentioned this as well and that is pretty clear standard all should agree with.
If ya break the rules, ( especially when it's done on purpose and to slight as most cases here on this forum)
you deserve the punishment, simple as that. If you don't want the punishment, then don't fucking do it...

If morons back up someone merely out of online friendship knowing rules have been broken, then they are an IDIOT.
What example are they showing or setting to everyone else by putting their name backing up someone
who BLANTLY breaks rules clearly showing no reprocussions? The admins shouldn't be concerned with semantics.

If peeps don't like it, stop whining and crying and just LEAVE...

For a forum regardless if it's drug absed or not, is supposed to be interaction with somewhat maturity,
I know that is a strecth for some but hey, maybe some need to sriously grow the fuck up and act like an adult instead of an 5 year old.
It's one thing to joke around and have stupid fun, we all do it as a release but not CONSTANTLY AS YOUR ONLY METHOD OF INTERACTION.

The forum needs to change the rules or make them more clearer to avoid these type of problems.

One forum created soley for infractions points per incident and those who break them are listed with all the info.
The time spans one is banned for by each infraction or multiple infractions.
Then everyone can't say "I didn't know" or "Why so long" or whatever else cracker whine lol.
Then everyone can read and see what the problem is and action taken, simple as that.

Seriously though, it seems most problems here anyway, comes from only a few people CONSISTENTLY.
A lot of problems would end if ya just banned spamming, That will end a majority of the crap that goes on.
Not allowing it makes those who only live for it, find another shit hole to go be an ass and amuse themself.

As for AIW... Leave AIW just for grudges or arguments as it should be as real entertainment.
Then AIW remains contained not STUPIDNESS as it is now.

[HellRaiser]

with tca he spammed and then used other peoples account to continue posting in here. he didnt steal them they were leant to him with the owner fully aware of what was going to happen about it all.

Well even in this case or ideology is still screwy man.
If your banned for whatever reason, then using someones else account deserves more banning time.
That is like any of a million examples one could use to show how stupid that is... I mean seriously come on, lol...
If the people gave them their account to post they should be BANNED too, it's wrong...
If he stole their account, he should be premie banned.

[Smash Bros]

If peeps don't like it, stop whining and crying and just LEAVE...

For a forum regardless if it's drug absed or not, is supposed to be interaction with somewhat maturity,
I know that is a strecth for some but hey, maybe some need to sriously grow the fuck up and act like an adult instead of an 5 year old.
It's one thing to joke around and have stupid fun, we all do it as a release but not CONSTANTLY AS YOUR ONLY METHOD OF INTERACTION.



with what you have said above.

if everyone that didnt like the fact that jesse was banned left then this forum would have almost no one in here. seeing as rit( i assume here) would prefer to have people on here and actually have people play his games and use his forum then everyone leaving we be BAD. therefore what you have said would not work. as you are suggesting that everyone leave if they have a problem with people here then ALL of GC and FM would be gone and half of Dopewars. no idea about SOS and as for the forum if everyone that didnt like something leaved then we would have almost no one here.

[HellRaiser]

ok lets break this down several ways...

Okay sounds good, let's do it...

there is no crime in spamming a forum..

Oh, something has to be a crime to warrant validation? Hmmmm interesting ideology. :|
But Hey I will partially agree by saying maybe the forum should make it more clear what is accepted or not.

bambi made multis(yes im guilty of this in the past too) tca used friends accounts.

Then you are guilty of idiocy as well, seriously man, there is no need to make multi's in game or on forum.
Its clear multi's are not allowed, so why do it?
It's clear multi's will result in punishment if caught, so why would anyone do it unless one wants to spite and be an ass?
More importantly, why would anyone whine and cry and complain about it later unless one is a child? :hidey:
I already addressed the using friends account...

bambi was verbally attacking people in sensitive areas i.e. talking smack bout vixens mom when she has cancer. tca basically was just making a clown of himself and not other forum members

I agree somewhat, Bambi yes deserved more to be banned heavily, but TCA is guilty of,
REPETITIVE CONSTANT infractions and that merits in a lot of ways longer bans.
You can't escape that fact... If one doesn't want to be banned, don't committ the infractions sherlock...
Apparently some don't get the clue or secretly want the ban or even ask for it lol, cause it causes EXACTLY THIS....ATENTION..

other members of forum did same thing that day and received a less harsh punishment even so they did use other accounts afterwards.. why so harsh on tca just cause he mouthed off.seems his punishment is more of him mouthing off to staff(which there isnt or shouldnt be a rule for)

Well I can't say why, I'm not in charge lol, but if some did then why banned?
Did they have multiple infractions close to a banning? probably not or nowhere close is why.
Should they have had infractions, yes most likely...

overall bambi made the forum horrible with constant attacks on everyone with no consideration with what was said. tca barely attacked anyone cept his spam buddies.

True, but two wrongs don't make a right either, just cause offences are defined in categories doesn't make one better or less guilty.

saying what tca and bambi did are equal and deserve equal punishment is nuts.

Oh come on, if you committ multiple infractions, multiple times and multiple bans, what makes it different to the "Cause"?
They BOTH EARNED the bans for constantly doing things they know would be penalized for...
They are not dumb, they did it knowing bans would come,. they wanted the bans lol...

as shown an overwelming amount of people dont think his ban was just. should it go unpunished, no. but to be punished the length of someone who has commited actual crimes is crazy.

Well maybe most don't put much stock into any type of rules and think it's okay. IDK...
I mean honestly, if you're not going to enforce rules, why have them at all?
Are you or anyone suggesting we don't have rules at all?
I would say, either make the rules clear and enforce the rules or get rid of them and it's a free for all.

Otherise accpet the rules or fuck off somewhere else I would say...

as for the way things should be handled in my opinion. he should be punished according to the rules stated in forum... he got his infractions and should serve his week and thats it...if he spams again then follow same rules..also state in rules not to use someones account and put in a length in the rules if someone does, as it stands now, i just see a rule for multis but actually no specific punishment for it.

Your missing the point, you can't just keep giving 1 week bans for continuing to break the same rules over and over and over... If you committ a crime 3 times over do you get the same jail time? lol... I would say the 3 strike rule would best apply here...Regardless of ban scenario, if you earned the infractions or whateber Your first ban is a week, your second ban is a month, and 3'rd ban is 6 months, and a 4'th ban is life...

tca has been freinds with almost everyone(hence the reason he is well liked)

I have no problem with TCA really, we had our diferences and shouts and no biggie for me.
I take it all in fun, but regardless if it's him or anyone else, if ya continue to be an ass and break the rules, pay the consequences.

[HellRaiser]

with what you have said above.

if everyone that didnt like the fact that jesse was banned left then this forum would have almost no one in here. seeing as rit( i assume here) would prefer to have people on here and actually have people play his games and use his forum then everyone leaving we be BAD. therefore what you have said would not work. as you are suggesting that everyone leave if they have a problem with people here then ALL of GC and FM would be gone and half of Dopewars. no idea about SOS and as for the forum if everyone that didnt like something leaved then we would have almost no one here.

Don't kid yourself most don't come here or would leave just because of TCA lol.
People come here for their own personal reasons of interaction or needs, not for any one individual.
This is just a forum, not the game, no one leaving the games over anything said here or not lol.

Not to you here but in general..

In the end it comes down to rules, follow them and everyone happy, break them be an adult and take the punishment, pay the price.
If people can't understand that simple concept, what can I say?

[Smash Bros]

you seem to be saying alot that we MUST have rules. read what sparky wrote. might shine a bit of light on what the rest of us are saying

[Dymond]

you seem to be saying alot that we MUST have rules. read what sparky wrote. might shine a bit of light on what the rest of us are saying

Honestly tho that logic works about as well as the theory that invading Iraq was helping to stop Al Queda :-)

[Grendel]

Honestly tho that logic works about as well as the theory that invading Iraq was helping to stop Al Queda :-)

You mean... :O

[HellRaiser]

you seem to be saying alot that we MUST have rules. read what sparky wrote. might shine a bit of light on what the rest of us are saying

Well hahahha, Sparky isn't exactly a role model lol. Not saying I am either though lol...
You got to have some type of rules, were humans not animals...
Point is, I am not trying to say we should have iron grip rules but you got to have some type of order.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

hellraiser and ks. you both keep bringing the point up of repeated offences, if you had 25 jaywalking tickets your not gonna get same time as a murderer. thats basically same comparison of tca and bambi...i 100% agree with asshole , forum was alot more fun when there was less mods and less rules here...alot of the people who built this forum and contributed to building it arent here anymore cause of it. i say lighten the hell up and get over it..i mean back in the daysi did worse thing possible and posted maris naked pictures 2 times and got a 24 hour ban.. now your bannning somone for spamming 6 months? i honestly dont understand it

[Mitch]

I have to agree with Asshole.

[Ridgeback]

What you're forgetting is this....

THIS IS NOT THE OLD FORUM AND THEREFORE CAN'T BE COMPARED TO IT!!!

Now that I've said that, I'd like to point out that both myself and KS have been here longer than Asshole.

Jesse has already said to me that he couldn't give a shit about here and was after a permaban. There's threads on the daq forum where he's asking me to ban him. If Jesse hadn't of used the other accounts and just took the ban for spamming, he would've been back already. And what short memories you all have - how long was Buzzin's ban for using other people's accounts? OK, he wasn't given them, but he was still banned for a month or so.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

ok fair point ridge but he wasnt banned for 6 months either like jesse is..

2nd of all even if he asked does it mean he gets what he wants or we get what we ask for.. shoot i asked for my name to be changed lik3 days ago and still hasnt happend..do i need to go and do it myself lol

[Taste of Britain]

lmfao at ridge pretending to be an admin :P


also either put it to a public vote about bans, or dont change a thing (Y)

[Kloaked Spirit]

I agree with this assessment of the forum. It is being heavily policed like it is a public company who has a reputation to uphold in the eyes of the media. We got away with tons of shit back in the day and I don't see much of that (if any) anymore. I know that people like WorldCrisis would never survive here anymore because someone's feelings would get hurt, he'd get reported, and then be banned by a mod having a bad day. I'm not trying to take a shot at you guys, but saying that rationale goes out the window sometimes when one of you is in a pissy mood.

I don't know what either tca or Bambi did to get banned. I remember Bambi never contributed to anything so I don't care too much about that. If someone wouldn't mind paraphrasing what happened in a PM to me, that'd be great, and I'll give a further opinion on that matter.


And good idea, putting this here. It's an actual serious discussion.

I agree with what you and asshole are saying to a certain extent. It is true that on the old forum, people did manage to get away with more than what they do here. Now, what you may not remember from the administrative side is what happened as a result of that.

Remember why A/I/W was created? It was because people like Asshole/WC used to go around harassing everyone, everywhere. People were fed up with it and asked for a solution. That solution was to have A/I/W created so people could flame all they want. Also, Serious Discussion was created along the lines that people would at least have one area which wouldn't be bombarded with bullshit posts from constant spammers and could have "deeper" conversation.

Also remember that unless you managed to get an administrator to do something with the forum, the worst punishment you could ever have was 2 days. The moderators lacked the ability to do anything more substantial than that and the administrators had the games to worry about. That will definitely add to the image that people got away with everything. This also led to many additional complaints that the staff had to deal with. As a result, you now have the ability to do something and get a substantial punishment for it.

Finally don't you remember the countless threads and bitching about how "vague" all of the rules were to begin with? The staff were always super corrupt because no one knew exactly what was going on and why so and so got punished. Before those threads, we just thought that you'd understand concepts like "don't spam the fuck out of the forum." Yet people would argue that because we didn't spell it out, the staff shouldn't do anything about it (people still try to pull this stuff to this day.) Those threads were the very reason why we've had to work on exactly what's against the rules, exactly what the punishment would be, etc.

So yes, we have had to become more merciless as times went on. However a good deal of that was because the way the forum progressed as a whole, and how we've had to react to the demands of the forum. We've worked more toward being consistent with what we do and why we do it. For example, it's been a long time since I used to be the super "corrupt" staff member who banned people at whims or just for my pleasure.

Also, I must applaud the use of irony in Asshole's example of his recent ban. That ban was a result of racist remarks, which has been a rule from the very beginning of the forum. To use that as an example takes a great deal of fortitude which I respect.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

i actually appreciate and respect admins views on this and respect the fact they made it an open topic for discussion. even so i dont agree 100 percent with either side ( i dont beleive it should be a free for all, but then again i dont think it should be strict as it is)..i am just trying to find a happy medium here where a little playful tomfoolery(spam) shouldnt be treated as harsh as verbal personal attacks bout peoples familys and stuff..
i think there has been to fine a line drawn that a little goofiness or spouting off at the mouth such as tca did by saying "ban me" gets the hammer brought down on him...

yes it can be a pain in the arse the spam but chit maybe even try to do things exponentially... such as first offence 1 day, 2nd 2 days, 3rd a week, 4th 2 weeks, 5th a month ..etc instead of just going from 1 week to 6 months...its just an idea to maybe try something difference instead of this one topic dominating the forum as it has..

once again i thank staff for at least oppening a meaningful dialogue bout this and even so im using the tca/bambi bans alot , i am using them for examples. i just dont want to bring up and nitpick every single ban handed out and most of them are in the past....

hopefully something that is mutually agreeable for most forum members can be reached cause at the moment i think most forum members see things as to harsh and to strict here. alot of good forum members have stated this also , the non trouble makers such as hoos and such.

once again thanks

[Dymond]

once again thanks

Who are you and where did you stick tung's dead body?

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

well ridge is supposed to be changing my name, and im mentally envisioning it and the evil tung name will be long gone..he said he was just gonna make sure no staff changes my name back once he changes it like has happened before lol

[Kloaked Spirit]

From tca

Could you post the following for me please, ty :)

Hellraiser - Im not denying i don't deserve a ban of some sort, shit i'll happily serve a month or two if thats so what they end up deciding for me, i truly don't think i should get off scot free nor will i, as they have to uphold rules

Smash - I agree with hellraiser, the forum isn't going to stop cos they don't unban me lol

Ridge - Like somebody said, if you listened to everything people said around here, you'd be forever changing shit

Look honestly, i appreciate everyones support and trying to get me unbanned, but the fact remains, im gonna have to serve time no matter what lol i did what i did, i made my bed now i have to lay in it so to speak.

But hey, keep trying :D :hehe:

[HellRaiser]

From the mouth of babes, makes ya wonder the legal aid team of TCA ( Tung ) at the helm has your defendant acknowledging the crimes lol...

What were ya all saying again? .........................

I got to give props to TCA, that is stand up...

[odd th0mas]

treat banned people like u'd treat lepers and fags(can i say fag in serious discussion? would fudge-packer be more appropriate? pesonally, i like 'cork-smokers'!)....give them their own island! create special place in forrum where they are segregated from general public and let them talk to themselves until they blue-in-the-face!

[hoos]

I agree with what you and asshole are saying to a certain extent. It is true that on the old forum, people did manage to get away with more than what they do here. Now, what you may not remember from the administrative side is what happened as a result of that.

Remember why A/I/W was created? It was because people like Asshole/WC used to go around harassing everyone, everywhere. People were fed up with it and asked for a solution. That solution was to have A/I/W created so people could flame all they want. Also, Serious Discussion was created along the lines that people would at least have one area which wouldn't be bombarded with bullshit posts from constant spammers and could have "deeper" conversation.

Also remember that unless you managed to get an administrator to do something with the forum, the worst punishment you could ever have was 2 days. The moderators lacked the ability to do anything more substantial than that and the administrators had the games to worry about. That will definitely add to the image that people got away with everything. This also led to many additional complaints that the staff had to deal with. As a result, you now have the ability to do something and get a substantial punishment for it.

Finally don't you remember the countless threads and bitching about how "vague" all of the rules were to begin with? The staff were always super corrupt because no one knew exactly what was going on and why so and so got punished. Before those threads, we just thought that you'd understand concepts like "don't spam the fuck out of the forum." Yet people would argue that because we didn't spell it out, the staff shouldn't do anything about it (people still try to pull this stuff to this day.) Those threads were the very reason why we've had to work on exactly what's against the rules, exactly what the punishment would be, etc.

So yes, we have had to become more merciless as times went on. However a good deal of that was because the way the forum progressed as a whole, and how we've had to react to the demands of the forum. We've worked more toward being consistent with what we do and why we do it. For example, it's been a long time since I used to be the super "corrupt" staff member who banned people at whims or just for my pleasure.

Also, I must applaud the use of irony in Asshole's example of his recent ban. That ban was a result of racist remarks, which has been a rule from the very beginning of the forum. To use that as an example takes a great deal of fortitude which I respect.

good point. I obviously never have known the administrative side to the forum. Rit doesn't trust me :glare:

Also I haven't gone back to look at the forum, so I don't remember many details. That was a long time ago. But i do remember a bit of anarchy, and a little about the complaining. I don't feel like it was a plea for a complete overhaul with strict rules and measures. I think it was just to keep those few mentioned contained and not just throwing shit around whereever they felt.

And again I just want to say, I have no clue what jesse or Bambi did, just giving my opinion about how i believe the forum has been cracked down on, and what i think is unnecessarily. I think it has been somewhat of a detriment to the overall content of the forum.

[Asshole]

I agree with what you and asshole are saying to a certain extent. It is true that on the old forum, people did manage to get away with more than what they do here. Now, what you may not remember from the administrative side is what happened as a result of that.

Remember why A/I/W was created? It was because people like Asshole/WC used to go around harassing everyone, everywhere. People were fed up with it and asked for a solution. That solution was to have A/I/W created so people could flame all they want. Also, Serious Discussion was created along the lines that people would at least have one area which wouldn't be bombarded with bullshit posts from constant spammers and could have "deeper" conversation.

Also remember that unless you managed to get an administrator to do something with the forum, the worst punishment you could ever have was 2 days. The moderators lacked the ability to do anything more substantial than that and the administrators had the games to worry about. That will definitely add to the image that people got away with everything. This also led to many additional complaints that the staff had to deal with. As a result, you now have the ability to do something and get a substantial punishment for it.

Finally don't you remember the countless threads and bitching about how "vague" all of the rules were to begin with? The staff were always super corrupt because no one knew exactly what was going on and why so and so got punished. Before those threads, we just thought that you'd understand concepts like "don't spam the fuck out of the forum." Yet people would argue that because we didn't spell it out, the staff shouldn't do anything about it (people still try to pull this stuff to this day.) Those threads were the very reason why we've had to work on exactly what's against the rules, exactly what the punishment would be, etc.

So yes, we have had to become more merciless as times went on. However a good deal of that was because the way the forum progressed as a whole, and how we've had to react to the demands of the forum. We've worked more toward being consistent with what we do and why we do it. For example, it's been a long time since I used to be the super "corrupt" staff member who banned people at whims or just for my pleasure.

Also, I must applaud the use of irony in Asshole's example of his recent ban. That ban was a result of racist remarks, which has been a rule from the very beginning of the forum. To use that as an example takes a great deal of fortitude which I respect.


Always been a rule?? i dont remember WC ever getting aban and he used some of the most racist remarks i have ever seen, and please lets not fool
anybody it was popular..

AND if were going through this "remember why blah blah blah was created?" shit open house was created because the mods ended up deleting an argument between me and WC that spanned three threads, and people got upset because there post count went down..

and then a question for the mods here : Im rude to a member of the forum, you delete it but in reply they leave a sracastic comment which is clearley aimed at myself.. would you delete theres and give them and infraction

the answer there should be no, because i know of two threads where stinger has gotten away with such.. and you say popularity dosent factor in ?

[Stinger]

Always been a rule?? i dont remember WC ever getting aban and he used some of the most racist remarks i have ever seen, and please lets not fool
anybody it was popular..

AND if were going through this "remember why blah blah blah was created?" shit open house was created because the mods ended up deleting an argument between me and WC that spanned three threads, and people got upset because there post count went down..

and then a question for the mods here : Im rude to a member of the forum, you delete it but in reply they leave a sracastic comment which is clearley aimed at myself.. would you delete theres and give them and infraction

the answer there should be no, because i know of two threads where stinger has gotten away with such.. and you say popularity dosent factor in ?

I'm sorry...you're saying that "I'm" popular?
*confused*

First, do you have a secret way of knowing how many infractions I have been given, and for what?
Second, I would be curious to know which threads you are referring to?
Last, you are a plank...I am merely a splinter.
Hard to compare the two truthfully.
Apples and oranges.

[Kloaked Spirit]

and then a question for the mods here : Im rude to a member of the forum, you delete it but in reply they leave a sracastic comment which is clearley aimed at myself.. would you delete theres and give them and infraction

the answer there should be no, because i know of two threads where stinger has gotten away with such.. and you say popularity dosent factor in ?

I guess you forgot where the forum moderates itself now, and we don't act unless it's blatant or if it's reported to us. That was the result of the public asking for us to be less overbearing on the forum. If you feel that a certain response merits us looking at it, then report it. We'll look at it and decide at that point. Otherwise we're going to let you all play with each other and go back to figuring out the next victim of administrative corruption. Besides, if popularity really took place there, you'd be given free reign over her as you're definitely the more popular and well known forum entity of the two of you. That popularity contest wouldn't even be close.

Back to the question at hand: Would you treat both situations the same? Would you give leniency to one person over the other? Why or why not?

good point. I obviously never have known the administrative side to the forum. Rit doesn't trust me :glare:

Also I haven't gone back to look at the forum, so I don't remember many details. That was a long time ago. But i do remember a bit of anarchy, and a little about the complaining. I don't feel like it was a plea for a complete overhaul with strict rules and measures. I think it was just to keep those few mentioned contained and not just throwing shit around whereever they felt.

And again I just want to say, I have no clue what jesse or Bambi did, just giving my opinion about how i believe the forum has been cracked down on, and what i think is unnecessarily. I think it has been somewhat of a detriment to the overall content of the forum.

The rules/regulations themselves and how you'd do an overhaul them is something I would consider making a separate thread about for feedback. It seems that's the direction people want to make this topic.

[Stinger]

I guess you forgot where the forum moderates itself now, and we don't act unless it's blatant or if it's reported to us. That was the result of the public asking for us to be less overbearing on the forum. If you feel that a certain response merits us looking at it, then report it. We'll look at it and decide at that point. Otherwise we're going to let you all play with each other and go back to figuring out the next victim of administrative corruption. Besides, if popularity really took place there, you'd be given free reign over her as you're definitely the more popular and well known forum entity of the two of you. That popularity contest wouldn't even be close.

Back to the question at hand: Would you treat both situations the same? Would you give leniency to one person over the other? Why or why not?



Yeah...thanks for that. :hrmff:

[Asshole]

I guess you forgot where the forum moderates itself now, and we don't act unless it's blatant or if it's reported to us. That was the result of the public asking for us to be less overbearing on the forum. If you feel that a certain response merits us looking at it, then report it. We'll look at it and decide at that point. Otherwise we're going to let you all play with each other and go back to figuring out the next victim of administrative corruption. Besides, if popularity really took place there, you'd be given free reign over her as you're definitely the more popular and well known forum entity of the two of you. That popularity contest wouldn't even be close.

Back to the question at hand: Would you treat both situations the same? Would you give leniency to one person over the other? Why or why not?.

No i would not rules around here arnt black and white otherwise there would be no need for mods, ive already shared my 3 days to explain yourself ban and other than that you cant define things by rules you gotta look at the whats happening in the forum and why..

Why was tca spamming a dead part of the forum? because the forum was going through one of its lows.. and now look!! CONVERSATION!!!

I thinks its purley because mods around here are lazy, its much easier to oppress the forum goers with rules than to spend a while a day looking through reported posts and using common sense


As for stinger, if a post is worthy of an infraction then the post is deleted as far as im aware.. all mine have even the low level 1 point infractions, both posts im referring too are in health and home threads, one towards myself and one towards tung.. but of course when i post a reply to your "little insults" i always end up with a ban, yet yours are left..

And does anyone really see ME Reporting a post rather than flaming back? please..

But yes use the report function to let forum goers "flag" content which they find innapropriate, mods/admins could then look at the offensive material and what has lead to it, dont just look at a post see nigger ban me for 2 weeks and not speak to anybody about it, it was in context and was explained in the SB, (During which alot of people praised the fact i had started an actual real conversation in the sb..)

look at why its been posted and the run up in events, and you shouldent really be deleting post permanantly untill you have spoken to the offending forum goer, lets be a bit more lax with the rules and have some of the enjoyment we used to, where we could say what we liked with little to no censorship, I think the mods here forget they are here to help the members not impose iron clad rules so they can do jack all and ponce around with specially coloured forum titles

[peddle07]

Spamming isn't that funny though. When I occasionally log onto the forum, I don't think to myself "Jesus, I hope someone spammed the fuck out of the forum, that'd really brighten up my day!". I just don't get why everyone is having a shit fit about him being banned. Do you guys lose sleep over this? Are the rules so troublesome that it's affecting your ability to concentrate or even eat? Obviously if someone gets the stick, someone has had a complaint or the plural. And I wouldn't worry too much about losing the spam king, I can't remember the last person who had a permaban that was permanent. If this wasn't serious discussion I'd tell all of you to fuck off.

[Stinger]

As for stinger, if a post is worthy of an infraction then the post is deleted as far as im aware.. all mine have even the low level 1 point infractions, both posts im referring too are in health and home threads, one towards myself and one towards tung.. but of course when i post a reply to your "little insults" i always end up with a ban, yet yours are left..



Your post from that particular thread, and those that followed, were pruned...not deleted.
They were merely moved to the more appropriate location.
I think your flagrant disregard of rules, and the racist remarks themselves, warranted a ban,
but my vote doesn't even count here.

http://forum.oddthought.com/showthread.php?t=11726

Feel better now?
Everyone can decide for themselves which of us deserved a ban and for what.

I know who deleted the post of tung's that you are referring to, but I have no idea why.
Considering some of the other posts from him directed at me,
I was quite frankly surprised by the selection in question.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

the funny thing is that the person he refereed to in that thread was not you.
he was obviously referring to shanna cause he quoted her, yet i didnt see her respond , but i did see you pounce all over him and im sure you reported it...do you think your fucking better than everyoen that you can go and judge and say something is unappropriate? or are you just trying to enforce your OPINION on everyone else in this forum like you do with your monotonous retarded worthless posts...yeah and the one time i say something semi nice you cry like a spoiled little cunt to someone and get it deleted or whatever...but then you feel free to come in every other post and put your judgement in it like this thread which actually didnt concern your ass. this was a thread for the people who thought banning was wrong and to explain why to admins, but no you gotta come in here and reply to eery fucking comment like your the high preistess of oddthought..go back to your dumb worthless posts of retarded poems, bad recipes, and clocks that the admin of the forum doesnt even give a flying fuck about and leave the serious talk to us grown folks

as for my post that was deleted what makes you all hellfire special that you KNOW who removed it and noone else does. you care to share, even so im sure it was dymond cause you seem to cry to him everytime i say something to your stupid ass. ohh and actually it was probably removed since YOU reported it like you do almost every other post i make you self righteous, attention whoring, stupid posting, fraud

[Stinger]

the funny thing is that the person he refereed to in that thread was not you.
he was obviously referring to shanna cause he quoted her, yet i didnt see her respond , but i did see you pounce all over him and im sure you reported it...do you think your fucking better than everyoen that you can go and judge and say something is unappropriate? or are you just trying to enforce your OPINION on everyone else in this forum like you do with your monotonous retarded worthless posts...yeah and the one time i say something semi nice you cry like a spoiled little cunt to someone and get it deleted or whatever...but then you feel free to come in every other post and put your judgement in it like this thread which actually didnt concern your ass. this was a thread for the people who thought banning was wrong and to explain why to admins, but no you gotta come in here and reply to eery fucking comment like your the high preistess of oddthought..go back to your dumb worthless posts of retarded poems, bad recipes, and clocks that the admin of the forum doesnt even give a flying fuck about and leave the serious talk to us grown folks

as for my post that was deleted what makes you all hellfire special that you KNOW who removed it and noone else does. you care to share, even so im sure it was dymond cause you seem to cry to him everytime i say something to your stupid ass. ohh and actually it was probably removed since YOU reported it like you do almost every other post i make you self righteous, attention whoring, stupid posting, fraud

First, this thread was not started ONLY for those who thought TCA's ban was wrong...
I'm making this thread for one reason; if you want us to take what you have to say, then we're going to need some serious feedback and rationale which takes everything into consideration....

So I'm placing you in our shoes for the feedback portion. There are no right or wrong answers here, but anything that you place here may be subject to scrutiny, follow up questions, explanations for your thoughts, etc....

Beginning Question: How should we handle popular/well liked troublemakers from now on?
...
Plus, let's not forget the fact that we're supposed to work toward being fair and balanced with the punishments. It was to keep us from playing favorites. Should we toss that out the window now if someone well liked gets punished for it? Or do we maintain a fair and consistent set of rules with everyone?

Example: If you modify tca's ban, what do you do with Bambi's ban?

Now, Bambi is generally a piece of shit on here. There's no denying that. However, if you took Bambi's route to being permabanned (which we all know usually gets reversed in 6 months anyway; just ask Tung,) and replaced "flaming outside of A/I/W" with "Spamming the hell out of the forum," Bambi's story will be a perfect mimic of tca's....




Second, I did not report your post, and contrary to what you may think, I do not report every post of yours that I believe is deemed worthy. As a matter of fact, I have reported only a handful (or two) of them in the year and a half that I've been here. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Third, I found out who it was that removed your post quite accidentally. It isn't my place to say who it was. Feel free to ask around though.

Fourth, my relationship with Dymond is really none of your business, but suffice to say we haven't spoken much in several months for a reason that is likewise none of your business.

Fifth, inappropriate actions have been set forth by the administration to include racist comments...I do not attempt to be High Priestess over anything. Yes, as a matter of fact I did report it, and justifiably so. That is how that post and those that followed it got moved to AIW, if I am not mistaken.


Open House Accusations, Insults and Bloody Whining! A place to talk as much shite as you like unmoderated, with the exception of racist comments and pictures of users posted without permission! (Unless posted already)

Sixth, the post of Asshole's in question was not directed at me, however it was posted in a thread that I started, about something that was in fact inappropriate...regardless of what YOU may believe.

As for the attention whore comment...pssh...look in the mirror sir. There you will also find the true source of your forum issues. Why don't you grow up and quit spamming the forum with all of your "shit" posts and "crap" threads.

I have stated my opinion about the subject matter presented herein as a grown up, but let me reiterate in Grendel's more famous words...simply put:


Popularity shouldn't come into it.

If people knowingly break the rules then they should accept the consequences of their actions.

[Kloaked Spirit]

No i would not rules around here arnt black and white otherwise there would be no need for mods, ive already shared my 3 days to explain yourself ban and other than that you cant define things by rules you gotta look at the whats happening in the forum and why..

Why was tca spamming a dead part of the forum? because the forum was going through one of its lows.. and now look!! CONVERSATION!!!

I thinks its purley because mods around here are lazy, its much easier to oppress the forum goers with rules than to spend a while a day looking through reported posts and using common sense

As for stinger, if a post is worthy of an infraction then the post is deleted as far as im aware.. all mine have even the low level 1 point infractions, both posts im referring too are in health and home threads, one towards myself and one towards tung.. but of course when i post a reply to your "little insults" i always end up with a ban, yet yours are left..

And does anyone really see ME Reporting a post rather than flaming back? please..

But yes use the report function to let forum goers "flag" content which they find innapropriate, mods/admins could then look at the offensive material and what has lead to it, dont just look at a post see nigger ban me for 2 weeks and not speak to anybody about it, it was in context and was explained in the SB, (During which alot of people praised the fact i had started an actual real conversation in the sb..)

look at why its been posted and the run up in events, and you shouldent really be deleting post permanantly untill you have spoken to the offending forum goer, lets be a bit more lax with the rules and have some of the enjoyment we used to, where we could say what we liked with little to no censorship, I think the mods here forget they are here to help the members not impose iron clad rules so they can do jack all and ponce around with specially coloured forum titles

1) If you're so proud of the "conversation" that's erupted, then I guess you should thank the staff. After all, it wasn't the spamming itself that actually caused the conversation. It was the resulting ban and then extension based off of what happened afterward. If you're so proud about this that you're trying to make it a real point of argument, then you're welcome. I'm sure had we just deleted the threads with no further say so, nothing would have arisen from it.

2) How are the forum staff "lazy" when the action you suggest they take "spend a while a day looking through reported posts and using common sense" is exactly how we moderate the forum (sans the obvious stuff?) I suggest that if you're going to spend another post making cheap shots at the staff, please do so with some consistency, and preferably in A/I/W.

3) If you choose not to report someone, and feel that it is better for you to flame them, that is your choice. If they choose to report rather than flame back, that is their choice. All the choices will come with their own consequences, and I'm pretty sure everyone's fine with that. If you're not fine with that, then I suggest not taking said action.

4) Based on everything you said, it's obvious that you do believe that in having a staff that rules very subjectively with leniency toward those that have been around for a while when enforcing a rule set. While I may not particularly agree with that viewpoint, I do thank you for expressing it. As I stated earlier, we may do a similar thread pertaining to how you'd reshape the rules themselves.

Edit: Everyone, before it gets out of hand, take the personal shots to A/I/W.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

First, this thread was not started ONLY for those who thought TCA's ban was wrong...

yes, but it was made for us to explain what we would do and you aint got shit to do with it bitch...this thread was made in direct reply to my petition


Second, I did not report your post, and contrary to what you may think, I do not report every post of yours that I believe is deemed worthy. As a matter of fact, I have reported only a handful (or two) of them in the year and a half that I've been here. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Third, I found out who it was that removed your post quite accidentally. It isn't my place to say who it was. Feel free to ask around though.there is no such thing as accidents, you whined like a little bitch and your butt buddy removed it to be heroic

Fourth, my relationship with Dymond is really none of your business, but suffice to say we haven't spoken much in several months for a reason that is likewise none of your business.awfully defensive huhh, guess someones is being a lil forum slut

Fifth, inappropriate actions have been set forth by the administration to include racist comments...I do not attempt to be High Priestess over anything. Yes, as a matter of fact I did report it, and justifiably so. That is how that post and those that followed it got moved to AIW, if I am not mistaken.yep and we have mods to take care of it , not fucking stinger who is just trying to kiss ass enough to be mod which you will never be on this forum..thing is if the person of color that it was issued to didnt say anything WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO PLAY MARTIN LUTHER KING?



Sixth, the post of Asshole's in question was not directed at me, however it was posted in a thread that I started, about something that was in fact inappropriate...regardless of what YOU may believe.who gives a shit if it was one of your retarded threads, we have mods once again , we dont mod our own threads here.

As for the attention whore comment...pssh...look in the mirror sir. There you will also find the true source of your forum issues. Why don't you grow up and quit spamming the forum with all of your "shit" posts and "crap" threads.thing is at least people do post and respond in my threads , half of yours noone answers cause its just pointless rubbish or a bunch of retarded links that noone cares about. do everyone here a favor and just leave cause i can count the number of people who can stand you on my pubic hairs

I have stated my opinion about the subject matter presented herein as a grown up, but let me reiterate in Grendel's more famous words...simply put:ok then stfu do not respond, and nothing is famous bout grendels words, who the fuck is he anyway but a 2 bit gc player at best

[Beli]

Grendel has wool-that makes him a god to me :P

if someone is banned, maybe a name and shame spot where the offense is listed and the punishment given. less rumors about who did what and what happened to them. i think it should be a locked thread so that people couldn't comment on it.

[Asshole]

1) If you're so proud of the "conversation" that's erupted, then I guess you should thank the staff. After all, it wasn't the spamming itself that actually caused the conversation. It was the resulting ban and then extension based off of what happened afterward. If you're so proud about this that you're trying to make it a real point of argument, then you're welcome. I'm sure had we just deleted the threads with no further say so, nothing would have arisen from it.

2) How are the forum staff "lazy" when the action you suggest they take "spend a while a day looking through reported posts and using common sense" is exactly how we moderate the forum (sans the obvious stuff?) I suggest that if you're going to spend another post making cheap shots at the staff, please do so with some consistency, and preferably in A/I/W.

3) If you choose not to report someone, and feel that it is better for you to flame them, that is your choice. If they choose to report rather than flame back, that is their choice. All the choices will come with their own consequences, and I'm pretty sure everyone's fine with that. If you're not fine with that, then I suggest not taking said action.

4) Based on everything you said, it's obvious that you do believe that in having a staff that rules very subjectively with leniency toward those that have been around for a while when enforcing a rule set. While I may not particularly agree with that viewpoint, I do thank you for expressing it. As I stated earlier, we may do a similar thread pertaining to how you'd reshape the rules themselves.

Edit: Everyone, before it gets out of hand, take the personal shots to A/I/W.


1) Exactly, if you had just deleted the threads there would have been no conversation, and yes the ban has resulted in a conversation, but only becaus TCA spammed a dead section because he was bored, like 90% of the people who quickly check the forum daily, instead he has bought a little bit of amusement to a forum dying, strangled by its own rules

2) Please, one day the staff are saying "nobody uses the report function so dont worry about it" and Now you say the staff each spend a while sorting through the reports, does anybody really use it? and looking at a post, seeing how many rules its broken then sending them the appropriate amount of infraction points is not common sense, its not even whats expected on a drug game related forum, this isnt a multi-million dollar company trying to save face its meant to be a group of people talking and having fun, sharing ideas and expressing themselves, how can you do that when every post gets scanned with the "infraction checklist", Maybe staff are busy at the minute, but it seems all for the wrong reasons

3) Mods should not be involved in any thread unless a post is reported, simple as that, they then need to see why the material was posted (where they provoked etc?) The manner of the thread (serious, sarcastic, comical etc) And the content of the reported post (personal attacks etc) and draw a conclusion from there, not all posts "inappropriate to the section" should be deleted at all times, theres way too many sections too, its should be:

General discussion (where you should expect a degree of flaming to be fair)
AIW (for hard core flaming)
Serious discussion (for world events/news/advice etc)
Entertainment section (used in the same manner it is now)

Edit: i suppose the tech section should stay in place too

Jokes should at most have its own sticky in general discussion
Know your oddthought community is terrible, post your pic threads should be merged and left as a sticky
ANd health and home is also truley pointless, just another example of over categorization, we dont need the extra categories GENERAL DISCUSSION would suffice, hence less moving around on the forums, and less to be posted "in the wrong sections" which is whats really destroying this place.

4) And as for number 4, no my point is i DONT believe in having a rule set, at least not to the degree it is now, so ok you need SB rules thats fine and great, but there should be some leniance to the people who have been here for a long time and purley for the reason that we keep coming back, and when new people join up and they see something amusing, they keep coming back, and a lot of that amusement comes from the fanbase that was here 3 years ago, getting rid of these people further kills off a forum thats been on a slow decline for a while now, and its amusing that you dont want decisions based on popularity yet its seen week in week out in the sb, concerning certain cliques




And apologies if you took anything in my posts offensively it was not a personal shot at you, or anyone in particular for that matter, i know the admin here work extremely hard as do perhaps 1 or 2 of the mods.

As for the name and shame thread we had one on the oldforum, was relatively pointless to be honest

[Dymond]

ok then stfu do not respond, and nothing is famous bout grendels words, who the fuck is he anyway but a 2 bit gc player at best

In best David Spade voice..'and you are??' Honestly your not adding much more to this convo so maybe you should take your own advice on this one.

[Raz]

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3207/adminasshole2vh2.pnghttp://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9152/admintca2gq4.pnghttp://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5603/admintung2vs5.pnghttp://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1272/adminraz2pn3.png

[swiss miss]

Grendel has wool-that makes him a god to me :P

if someone is banned, maybe a name and shame spot where the offense is listed and the punishment given. less rumors about who did what and what happened to them. i think it should be a locked thread so that people couldn't comment on it.

i think that is a very good idea - one ive thought of in the past and never got round to saying (im too busy complaining about other things - (f) jay!). I dont know why jesse (or anyone else) was banned, maybe its not my business but if i/we knew why then maybe i/we could understand and if i/we understood then maybe there wouldnt be so much crap flying around.


EDIT: Raz posted whilst i was writing mine..... you did it again raz - you have ended my day with a big smile on my face, thanks very much :D

[Dymond]

Post by Raz..

Where is the rep when you need it? That was the funniest thing I've ever seen!

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

yeah sucks they ae so big id use it as my sig lol

[swiss miss]

yeah sucks they ae so big id use it as my sig lol

use them anyway - pretend youre an admin for the day and that its ok to have a sig that takes up half the screen :P

[Smash Bros]

Grendel has wool-that makes him a god to me :P

if someone is banned, maybe a name and shame spot where the offense is listed and the punishment given. less rumors about who did what and what happened to them. i think it should be a locked thread so that people couldn't comment on it.

:O i made that suggestion at the beginning of the thread lol. looks like everyone forgot me :(

[Dymond]

I did like the old thread where the ban,length and reason were posted.

[Uganja]

Yeah me too actually.

[Asshole]

lol raz that was class.

[Smash Bros]

from tca

lmfao raz, fucking mint

[hoos]

I guess you forgot where the forum moderates itself now, and we don't act unless it's blatant or if it's reported to us. That was the result of the public asking for us to be less overbearing on the forum. If you feel that a certain response merits us looking at it, then report it. We'll look at it and decide at that point. Otherwise we're going to let you all play with each other and go back to figuring out the next victim of administrative corruption. Besides, if popularity really took place there, you'd be given free reign over her as you're definitely the more popular and well known forum entity of the two of you. That popularity contest wouldn't even be close.

Back to the question at hand: Would you treat both situations the same? Would you give leniency to one person over the other? Why or why not?



The rules/regulations themselves and how you'd do an overhaul them is something I would consider making a separate thread about for feedback. It seems that's the direction people want to make this topic.

I mean it seems the way to go. I remember eons ago when there would be large MSN convo's with the top people, but also people who's opinions where respected by the staff, and who were invited to weigh in on decisions. Maybe it still happens and I don't get invited anymore, but more of the convo's with the peoples opinion in them should be considered by the staff.

That's kinda the problem with most government control (mainly USA (my country for those that don't know)) now. The public's opinion isn't really valued. The heads think they can just do whatever they want and everyone will abide by that and be all dandy. Include more public opinion in the matter and it'll work better.