Its been awhile - THE WAR IN IRAQ!!

[Mikey:)]

Ok, so Ive not posted anything about this for awhile but Im interested to know who still thinks this was the best cause of action? The way I see it the countrys now fucked and heading for civil war, maybe Saddam was a cruel dictator but seeing how things are without him maybe thats the way he had to be to keep the balance... Iraq was just a bunch of tribes trying to gain the power b4 he came along. Looks like the US marines are cracking... we'll wait and see what the inquiry says but Im not sure how theyre gonna justify shooting a guy with no legs and a mother protecting her baby? Pretty much every day we hear of bombings and deaths... it doesnt look like this "Enforced Democracy" stands much of a chance apart from maybe winning the oxymoron of the decade contest!

[Mikey:)]

Ok, so Ive not posted anything about this for awhile but Im interested to know who still thinks this was the best cause of action? The way I see it the countrys now fucked and heading for civil war, maybe Saddam was a cruel dictator but seeing how things are without him maybe thats the way he had to be to keep the balance... Iraq was just a bunch of tribes trying to gain the power b4 he came along. Looks like the US marines are cracking... we'll wait and see what the inquiry says but Im not sure how theyre gonna justify shooting a guy with no legs and a mother protecting her baby? Pretty much every day we hear of bombings and deaths... it doesnt look like this "Enforced Democracy" stands much of a chance apart from maybe winning the oxymoron of the decade contest!

[Nazkyn]

I think it needs to stop, it's pointless and it's un-winable.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies...a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

[Nazkyn]

I think it needs to stop, it's pointless and it's un-winable.

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies...a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."

[YetAnotherKitten]

They can't stop now. One of my best friends is there disarming mines in mine fields.

He doesn't like the army, he only joined up to get his life straight and get college money.He says that there is a lot of good stuff going on there but that a lot of the people in charge are idiots.

There are men working over there form the US that aren't specialists.

It takes time heal.

We only have two more years with this guy.. lets hope the next one is a little more inspirational.

[YetAnotherKitten]

They can't stop now. One of my best friends is there disarming mines in mine fields.

He doesn't like the army, he only joined up to get his life straight and get college money.He says that there is a lot of good stuff going on there but that a lot of the people in charge are idiots.

There are men working over there form the US that aren't specialists.

It takes time heal.

We only have two more years with this guy.. lets hope the next one is a little more inspirational.

[King Koopa]

it's a never ending battle that will go on for many years cuz it's a no win situation for the US sur ein the hell ain't doing any good for gas prices here

[King Koopa]

it's a never ending battle that will go on for many years cuz it's a no win situation for the US sur ein the hell ain't doing any good for gas prices here

[Dymond]

Agreed..Sorry Kitten but we've just made things worse..Honestly the situation in Iraq is much like the situation in Africa. It does take a strong dictator to keep these factions in check. For better or worse Saddam did that. So I don't see a unified Iraq Democracy happening anytime soon. Once Saddam was gone those century long animosity just comes bubbling up again.

[Dymond]

Agreed..Sorry Kitten but we've just made things worse..Honestly the situation in Iraq is much like the situation in Africa. It does take a strong dictator to keep these factions in check. For better or worse Saddam did that. So I don't see a unified Iraq Democracy happening anytime soon. Once Saddam was gone those century long animosity just comes bubbling up again.

[dopebeat]

Because the Coalition removed the huge arsehole that was keeping all the little arseholes in check.

[dopebeat]

Because the Coalition removed the huge arsehole that was keeping all the little arseholes in check.

[Dymond]

So why blame the US and not the people causing the problems?

Well for one I blame the shoddy ass excuse for going there..WMD my ass.. More like MOP..Methods Oil Production..

And if things are so pretty and we only see the bad why don't we pull out? Because we know we are the only thing holding together the house of cards thats called Iraqi Democracy..We leave and it falls faster than you can say *achoo*

[Dymond]

So why blame the US and not the people causing the problems?

Well for one I blame the shoddy ass excuse for going there..WMD my ass.. More like MOP..Methods Oil Production..

And if things are so pretty and we only see the bad why don't we pull out? Because we know we are the only thing holding together the house of cards thats called Iraqi Democracy..We leave and it falls faster than you can say *achoo*

[Colander]

you guys kill me whining about gas prices, Its more like US$5 per gallon here and in the UK its even more i believe. you have the cheapest, least taxed fule in the Western World l so stop you're whining Killaho or we might have to fall out :) Stop everyone driving huge cars and trucks and buy a Hybrid.

Anyway Iraq...I jsut read a memoir called "The LAst True Story I'll Ever Tell" by John Crawford, he did a 18month tour in Iraq as a National Guardsman. Its amazing, I recommend that if you read 1 book this month make that the 1.

[Colander]

you guys kill me whining about gas prices, Its more like US$5 per gallon here and in the UK its even more i believe. you have the cheapest, least taxed fule in the Western World l so stop you're whining Killaho or we might have to fall out :) Stop everyone driving huge cars and trucks and buy a Hybrid.

Anyway Iraq...I jsut read a memoir called "The LAst True Story I'll Ever Tell" by John Crawford, he did a 18month tour in Iraq as a National Guardsman. Its amazing, I recommend that if you read 1 book this month make that the 1.

[Dymond]

Never whining oh wise Colander. I said if the war was about oil, prices wouldn't be going up here, it would be going down. You're always so quick to the attack Colander. I am aware of the world market. Maybe your goverment should do something about your fuel prices or maybe you should just hop in your hybrid and drive your bitter ass out of here. Sounds more like you're the one whining here.


The oil prices have NOTHING to do with the supply..we are being fucked by the oil companies plain and simple.. Where did I read Exxon made like a 178% profit last year..

[Dymond]

Never whining oh wise Colander. I said if the war was about oil, prices wouldn't be going up here, it would be going down. You're always so quick to the attack Colander. I am aware of the world market. Maybe your goverment should do something about your fuel prices or maybe you should just hop in your hybrid and drive your bitter ass out of here. Sounds more like you're the one whining here.


The oil prices have NOTHING to do with the supply..we are being fucked by the oil companies plain and simple.. Where did I read Exxon made like a 178% profit last year..

[Nazkyn]

Why is it always the Yanks that end up moaning about oil prices when our little 0.9's end up costing as much to run as your 4 litre V8's??

Wish you could see how easy you have it... unlikely :unsure:

Feel free to get back on topic :bye:

[Nazkyn]

Why is it always the Yanks that end up moaning about oil prices when our little 0.9's end up costing as much to run as your 4 litre V8's??

Wish you could see how easy you have it... unlikely :unsure:

Feel free to get back on topic :bye:

[hoos]

1st, we're getting screwed by the oil companies and the gas prices have no depedence on the actually availability of oil. Slightly, but not really.

2nd (back on topic) I posted this in Global Conflict playing board, but you'll get it...

hoos
The thing is, the US has established itself as a well-developed nation, there to help support any nation in need. (Reference: France in war :p) Therefore, when we deem something wrong, we want to do something about it. I believe taking Sadaam out of power was a good decision. Now the 4 years that followed were not. I understand the whole, we can't just leave them to it themselves, but we have our troops dying for SOMEONE else's freedoms, not ours. Our freedom is not being infringed at this moment, and I do not understand why we still believe it is our war to fight. It's not

[hoos]

1st, we're getting screwed by the oil companies and the gas prices have no depedence on the actually availability of oil. Slightly, but not really.

2nd (back on topic) I posted this in Global Conflict playing board, but you'll get it...

hoos
The thing is, the US has established itself as a well-developed nation, there to help support any nation in need. (Reference: France in war :p) Therefore, when we deem something wrong, we want to do something about it. I believe taking Sadaam out of power was a good decision. Now the 4 years that followed were not. I understand the whole, we can't just leave them to it themselves, but we have our troops dying for SOMEONE else's freedoms, not ours. Our freedom is not being infringed at this moment, and I do not understand why we still believe it is our war to fight. It's not

[RobCheadle]

OK first off the war in Iraq and Afganistan (we are still at war in Afganistan) are nothing to do with anything other than politics at home.

It's not about creating democracies in other countries, obtaining more oil, freeing nations...

It's about money, power and homeland politics.

If it wasnt there it would be somewhere else. There will always be wars because there will always be greedy politicians.


btw, UK gas prices are sky high yes, I subscribed to this the other week -

http://www.pipelinecard.org/default.html

Info on what it is here:

Fed up paying ridiculous petrol prices? Save money with a free Pipeline Card!
All those involved in the oil business are getting their cut from the inflated prices we're paying on the forecourts - the oil-well owners, refineries, filling stations. On top of that, the government siphons off nearly 70p per litre in tax.

These organisations behave as if petrol and diesel were luxury goods, and driving was a hobby. It is not. We are not 'motorists' as we have been branded. We are teachers, nurses, professional and business people, parents. We drive because we have to.

Strength in numbers
There are nearly 32 million of us in the UK. If a large number of us band together and choose to give our custom to one major forecourt chain, we could negotiate a substantial discount for ourselves. Pipeline Card has been established to achieve just that and we are well on our way to success.

Our target
We have already secured an agreement in principle from a major UK fuel retailer to provide a discount to our members. We need you - and your friends and your work colleagues - to join with us in order to win a substantial reduction in forecourt prices across the whole country.

Act now!
It costs absolutely nothing to join, but by joining Pipeline Card today you strengthen our clout as well as making yourself eligible to buy fuel at a discount. By telling other drivers about this website you can make that happen sooner - and do them a favour into the bargain.

[RobCheadle]

OK first off the war in Iraq and Afganistan (we are still at war in Afganistan) are nothing to do with anything other than politics at home.

It's not about creating democracies in other countries, obtaining more oil, freeing nations...

It's about money, power and homeland politics.

If it wasnt there it would be somewhere else. There will always be wars because there will always be greedy politicians.


btw, UK gas prices are sky high yes, I subscribed to this the other week -

http://www.pipelinecard.org/default.html

Info on what it is here:

Fed up paying ridiculous petrol prices? Save money with a free Pipeline Card!
All those involved in the oil business are getting their cut from the inflated prices we're paying on the forecourts - the oil-well owners, refineries, filling stations. On top of that, the government siphons off nearly 70p per litre in tax.

These organisations behave as if petrol and diesel were luxury goods, and driving was a hobby. It is not. We are not 'motorists' as we have been branded. We are teachers, nurses, professional and business people, parents. We drive because we have to.

Strength in numbers
There are nearly 32 million of us in the UK. If a large number of us band together and choose to give our custom to one major forecourt chain, we could negotiate a substantial discount for ourselves. Pipeline Card has been established to achieve just that and we are well on our way to success.

Our target
We have already secured an agreement in principle from a major UK fuel retailer to provide a discount to our members. We need you - and your friends and your work colleagues - to join with us in order to win a substantial reduction in forecourt prices across the whole country.

Act now!
It costs absolutely nothing to join, but by joining Pipeline Card today you strengthen our clout as well as making yourself eligible to buy fuel at a discount. By telling other drivers about this website you can make that happen sooner - and do them a favour into the bargain.

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[Mikey:)]

Its too early for oil prices to fall, Iraqs still full of conflict and the oil rich regions are the worst places for it... no companies are going to invest in these areas especially with the threat of civil war. Also the gain of oil isnt so much about giving people cheaper fuel but getting a grip on the energy required by other nations and therefore a hand in the control of their economy and status. I dont understand why bush is so concerned about the welfare of Iraqis and will spend billions on fighting this war yet isnt too bothered about people who suffer more in Africa and also thought the US economy was more important than signing the kyoto agreement... so far the only peopel to profit from Iraq are companies like Haliburton who the Bush administration have very close ties with... hmmmm

[CRAZY COLUMBIAN]

its the same in australia. we only here about ppls fuck ups.
i know our force in iraq and afghanistan arent as large as the US's but we still here of our fuck ups. its just the medias opinion

[stigma]

So why blame the US and not the people that are causing the problems?
That simple. Dipshit bush is the problem

The situation in Iraq is much like the situation in Somalia.
It turns into a bloodbath before it over with. Thanks to our dipshit president

That simple. Dipshit bush is the problem

Laundering the American taxpayers money $8trill.
Causing a depression to capitalize more debits off American markets/taxpayers.
Capitalizing off foreign oil companies.
Capitalizing off Afghanistan heroin trade.
Unitizing military forces to overrule local/state laws
Action of war based on lies.

Am sure there 100 more but this do

Any time America goes to war its for 3 things

Laundering American money
Capitalizing off foreign oil companies/minerals
Capitalizing off drug trade.

[TJ60]

hoos
The thing is, the US has established itself as a well-developed nation, there to help support any nation in need. (Reference: France in war :p) Therefore, when we deem something wrong, we want to do something about it. I believe taking Sadaam out of power was a good decision. Now the 4 years that followed were not. I understand the whole, we can't just leave them to it themselves, but we have our troops dying for SOMEONE else's freedoms, not ours. Our freedom is not being infringed at this moment, and I do not understand why we still believe it is our war to fight. It's not


:TY: couldn't have said it better. But to kinda answer your question at the end, if we leave now the very people that we wanted to prevent from running the country will be. It wouldn't even be a long civil war, one group has weapons another has rocks..who do u think would win? Trust me when i say this though, there is still some people that want us there, but alot are just afraid to be even seen talking to a soldier out of fear for their family.

[Phoenix]

We shouldn't be there period...the justification for invading Iraq was WMD's that would reach the US...the worst Iraq ever had was Scud missles which had a range of 200 miles. Democracy cannot be forced upon a nation...it has to come from the people within that nation who must rise up against those oppressed them. Our the US and French revolutionary wars...the oppressed fought back against the oppressors and showed them that it was They who were the ones with the power. Having another country step in and tell them what to do will just lead to a bunch of different groups vying for power, leading to instability for years to come. Because there isn't one group that clearly has more power, or clearly has the support of the majority. If there was, then stablilty would come faster.
A revolution must come from within.

[RobCheadle]

UK and US should have finished the job in the first Gulf war.

Would have been much simpler. Back then we encouraged the Iraqi's to rise up against the dictatorship and they were all for it, if we helped. Problem is we pulled back into Kuwait and left Saddam to butcher anyone that tried to rise up. This actually created a lot of bad feeling as the people who did rise up had their families slain because we were not there to help.

[VikesWookie]

does it surprise ya?
sounds like another great American moment in political history...