My friend was at the heart of a homophobic assault.

[Drunken Monk]

I had this friend, who's name i'm not mentioning to protect his identity, and he was black and openly gay. he was about 19 years old and almost everyone that knew him, knew he was gay. Last year, when he was at a club in a place called Brixton, he was attacked. But it wasn't because he had insulted anyone, or because he had aggravated or attacked anyone first. It was because he was "batty".

He received 9 stitches to his right eyebrow, his arm had to be put in a sling for about a month and a half and he had 3 bruised ribs as well. When i spoke to him a few weeks after the attack, he explained the whole thing to me. Apparently this gang came up on him and beat him down because he was dressed a certain way which may be perceived as being gay. When they confronted him, he stood his ground and admitted to being gay. The beating then began. The attackers persisted till he was prostrate on the ground and crying for help.

All through the attack, the gang kep saying phrases like "Bun the chi chi man" (Burn the gay man) and "If i was strapped i'd go blap blap, batty boy" (If i had a gun i'd shoot you gay boy). He remembers these phrases and the gang because they were Jamaican..just like him.

This isn't a thread being racist to Jamaicans or black people. This is a thread asking, why are we as conscious, rational beings not able to reason with ourselves not to attack another human being on the basis of sexual preferance or orientation. Why does homophobia still exist today to the extent it does, and why is it still such a taboo to talk about homosexuality at a dinner table without raising so many eyebrows. We're socialised from an early age with the belief that being gay is "against religion" or "indecent" or "disgusting". Why aren't we told that if u're gay, u're gay..and i'm cool with it.


EDIT : Dont reply to this post unless you have something meaningful to say. i mean Asshole's reply was just a fucking piss-take to be honest. Yes i know the whole topic of homophobia has been dealt with in the past here, but i'm sharing a real life experience, that's all. If u cant respect that, or at least have the brains to see that it means something to someone, then piss off. I dont care what u have to say.

[insainbrane]

Fags are no different from child molestors. Its a mental condition. So your right, it would be like beating up an alcoholic, or a drug user. they are just people with a mental illness or ailment.

[I Got Priors]

I'm sorry this happened to your friend. Who knows why there is such ignorance still out there. I do believe times are changing and hopefully with each generation we, as a human race, will learn to respect each others choices. I believe the best thing we can do is teach our children to do and be better.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Fags are no different from child molestors.

Someone tell me this is a fakepost...

[spankme]

Someone tell me this is a fakepost...

no
inanebrane is defective

[Mikey:)]

Thats shocking but your friend really should be a little more street smart, especially when confronted by a gang of Jamaicans in Brixton.

[Duffman]

Fags are no different from child molestors. Its a mental condition. So your right, it would be like beating up an alcoholic, or a drug user. they are just people with a mental illness or ailment.

your a fucking idiot mate i hope to god ur takin the piss

[Asshole]

wow, yet again my serious discussion posts deleted, what fucking idiots

[Kloaked Spirit]

wow, yet again my serious discussion posts deleted, what fucking idiots

Yes, because you making a post pretending to cheerlead for the people that beat the shit out of someone because they're gay really belonged in SD. I mean wow, how edgy! With humor that sharp you don't even need Ginsu Knives!

[Colonel Sanders]

They shoulda killed him quickly with a stab to the heart or something, I don't condone torture or "beatings" no matter how fucked up they are.

Even so Monk hatred against gays still exist because the rational human beings you speak of are the ones that know homosexuality is against the very essence of humanity. It may be a loosing battle because so many of us, including you, have been brainwashed but that won't stop us for standing strong in what we know to be right, insainebrain is right; gays are no different than child molesters mentally healthy wise and both do not deserve to live in our society, I would no more hesitate or flinch killing a child molester than I would a gay.

If you want to know why it still exists and why so many people are STILL taught that homosexuality is wrong then you need to take a deep look inside yourself and figure it out. The answer is quit simple, any human being knows at their very core that it is wrong...it's just that people start to get brainwashed from such an early age about the topic they pretty soon start to believe other people's views before they can even start to think and adopt one of their own. If that was not the case then nearly every person on this planet would have come to the conclusion that homosexuality is an abomination like the rest of us who refuse to be brainwashed and are strong minded have come to.

[Mikey:)]

Sounds like you've had the other form of brainwashing, the Christian kind. I don't think you're qualified to say what is or isn't the essence of humanity, unless you are in possession of the answer to the purpose of life, the universe and everything? Wouldn't you agree that hate based on any kind of prejudice is far more harmful to humanity than gays are? I mean what purpose does homophobia really serve?

[Colonel Sanders]

The Christian kind. lol

That proves how shallow your thinking really is. Apparently people have to be religious in order to think homosexuality is wrong aye? Fucking pathetic.

The only Christians I know (the ones that aren't insanely religious like West borrow or some shit) think homosexuality is wrong yes but never have I seen them lash out at them or wish they were dead like I am now. Ever hear of love thy neighbour etc? Extremist Christianity is a minority at this point in time.

I guess the fact that I am agnostic and so is everybody else I know that hates gays has nothing to do with it? Give ya a clue there?

And no I sure as hell would not agree that hate and prejudice is not more harmful to humanity. If humanity could not approach situations with hate and extreme prejudice the people who we are fighting against can walk all over us and exploit the weak minded.

Even the weak minded can be made strong through hatred my friend. The Nazi's, Terrorists that kill innocent civilians, Soviet Russians, Modern Religious extremists and too many more to name; they all would have exchanged unquestioned dominance and exploitation over this world in this past century if humanity did not have hatred on our hearts.

Homosexuality is the next threat on that list, right along side religion and the corrupt U.S. government. They are the next battle in this century. We can prevail and crush religion of that I have no doubt but unfortunately homosexuality, when the world powers turn, will still most likely be allowed and treated as 'natural". I can only hope that whatever power comes out the other end of this centuries struggle is also against homosexuality.

[Kloaked Spirit]

So just to clarify the point here, you believe Gays should be treated on the same ground as Child Molesters due to both of them having a mental/chemical imbalance? Or does the chemical/mental imbalance really have nothing to do with it at all, and you're just claiming that it's some sort of connection when really your connection between the two is your hatred toward both groups? If it is due to the mental/chemical imbalance, exactly how much of a role does that play in your opinions and connections between the two?

[Mikey:)]

You may not know this but homosexuality was quite acceptable in ancient Greek & Roman times, right up until Christianity declared it a sin. So religious or not you are still subscribing to the same doctrine that changed societies views 2000 years ago. Well, you may say, that was a long time ago and has little relevance now, but consider that if it wasn't declared a sin we may well be living in a society that has always accepted homosexuality. Another example of religion breeding hatred; to the point where you feel it's so offensive that people should die for it. Pretty ironic really.

[Dai]

The key issues here in differentiating morally between child molestation and homosexuality are consent and harm.

Sex between 2 consenting adults (no matter what the sex) is a matter for them alone and is not in itself intrinsically harmful.

In the case of child molestation there is not consent - a child is not capable of informed consent in such matters and in any case this is almost always done without any real consent. The harm generated from child molestation goes on to last a lifetime and is often transmitted down the generations.

If you are unable to see the difference....I have nothing more to say to you.

[Colonel Sanders]

Of course there is a difference. Exactly what you said is the difference. I said in terms of mental health there is no difference. Try to keep up.

KS, it plays a big role. I simply believe in purity. No not the "White Power!" Nazi idealism kind of purity but simply trying to keep our modern society as genetically clean and responsible as possible. As in not everyone should have the right to reproduce. Rapists, obese people with no concern for their bodies, gays, those parents that "forget" their children in burning cars, retards, etc etc.

All of this shit is ruining our society and the only way to fix it is to keep it in check and have moderation. I believe it is simply a must with 7 billion people in the world with modern governments, technologies, and ideology. Ever seen the comedy movie Idiocracy? We'll be a version of that sometime down the road (not as extreme and comedic as in the movie) if we keep going down the path we are now.

Also Mikey I don't give a shit what the Romans and Greeks did 2000 years ago. I am living in modern society and judging and using reasoning skills now, thats all I care about. You can't compare thought processes, especially moral thinking, with people from 2000 years ago and people now..that's just stupid.

[Mikey:)]

You don't think that 2000 years of Christian based law has any relevance? I'd argue that the Greeks and Romans have everything to do with moral thinking and modern society in general. Who do you think came up with the concept of a forum... Microsoft? It's clear you have no real reasons, just ill informed opinions to back up your prejudice.

The late Roman emperor Constantine made homosexuality illegal on the basis of Christian beliefs. The Romans then spread throughout the world creating modern societies based on those laws and Christian values. Modern law is based on those laws from early civilised society. So whether or not you care about what happened 2000 years ago doesn't make the slightest difference to it's actual relevance on modern life.

[Smash Bros]

kaf you are a fucking idiot.

there is nothing the same between child molesters and gays at all even in the chemicals in the brain. what your saying is that you agree with hitler and the perfect world becuase they are not like you. although hitler had a reason to want a perfect world due to his deformity where as you just think it cause you think that everyone needs to be the same.

you go on about how people need to be enlightened and not be brainwashed etc etc etc where you go trying to say that everyone needs to be killed that doesnt fit into "normal". teh sad part is that you actually beilieve what you are saying.


and to monk on the original topic my lil bro was beaten up by a gang of "wogs" because he looked gay. they almost killed him aswell but for the interference of a mate of ours. it is fucked that people are treated that way based on their sexual preference or the way they look. thats like me beating up kaf cause he looks like a fuckwit.

[Colonel Sanders]

How is that not related? Child molesters are obviously fucked up in the head? Normal people do not have fantasies about 7 year olds do they? Just like in my point of view normal people don't have fantasies about the same sex, both are not natural and both obviously have something messed up with em in the brain...so you really make no sense there.

Also I hate gangs and street violence so I also think that the people who beat up Monks gay friend should die just the same. AND YA KNOOOW I look sexy..how old are you?...mmm 20, I'm 20 in 28 days. Where is yer picture?

Oh yeah and also I would like to point out that most people can get along with homo's just the same as gays. I tell people that like gays that I hate em at some point or another whenever the topic is up (rarely) and they don't seem to disown me for it, I still see em around and laugh together all the time. Except on the internet's people make these opinions on gays more ehh extreme that it really is in RL. People seem to understand that some people won't tolerate them, other people can. Just like some people can tolerate religious folk and will be friends with them, others will not. No difference. It's not like I go preaching about the slaughter of gays every day, in fact I don't at all. But since this is a forum and the topic is such it makes it seems like I am this horrible person that you couldn't imagine being friends with, which is simply not true. I can be friends with people who accept gays and don't think it's wrong...so telling me that I think all people should think the same and fit into normal is simply not true, people have different though processes and can come to different conclusions. That is what opinions are all about, unfortunately most people cannot think for themselves these days, and are like I said brainwashed in one way or another. What do you expect? This is the United States the most fucked up nation on earth and it is ALL about brainwashing.

[Alf uckem]

How is that not related? Child molesters are obviously fucked up in the head? Normal people do not have fantasies about 7 year olds do they? Just like in my point of view normal people don't have fantasies about the same sex, both are not natural and both obviously have something messed up with em in the brain...so you really make no sense there.

Also I hate gangs and street violence so I also think that the people who beat up Monks gay friend should die just the same. AND YA KNOOOW I look sexy..how old are you?...mmm 20, I'm 20 in 28 days. Where is yer picture?

Oh yeah and also I would like to point out that most people can get along with homo's just the same as gays. I tell people that like gays that I hate em at some point or another whenever the topic is up (rarely) and they don't seem to disown me for it, I still see em around and laugh together all the time. Except on the internet's people make these opinions on gays more ehh extreme that it really is in RL. People seem to understand that some people won't tolerate them, other people can. Just like some people can tolerate religious folk and will be friends with them, others will not. No difference. It's not like I go preaching about the slaughter of gays every day, in fact I don't at all. But since this is a forum and the topic is such it makes it seems like I am this horrible person that you couldn't imagine being friends with, which is simply not true. I can be friends with people who accept gays and don't think it's wrong...so telling me that I think all people should think the same and fit into normal is simply not true, people have different though processes and can come to different conclusions. That is what opinions are all about, unfortunately most people cannot think for themselves these days, and are like I said brainwashed in one way or another. What do you expect? This is the United States the most fucked up nation on earth and it is ALL about brainwashing.

Fuck you have some strong yet strange views. Ok so gay/lesbians are fucked up going off what you say, I get that part. The part I dont get but hope you will clarify is have you ever mixed with homosexuals?

I used to live with a lesbian fo a spell she was a riot, she mixed in her gay circles with both male a nd females. I even went out a few times with her and her friends some of the nicest people you could ever meet. They all knew I was straight and accepted the fact, none of em tried it on or any shit like that because I always made my sexual orienation known.

I mean they all work normal everyday jobs, lawyers, doctors, judges, coppers, footballers so they cant be too fucked up in the head otherwise society would not accept them surely I mean you have probably spoke to lots of gay people and have never known which team they bat for. So if you were made aware of there sexual preference would your perception of that person change?

Now going off what you say these normal everyday people should be killed, and if you recall these are your opinions right? So how is your opinion to gays any different to there opinion on weather or not they prefer the same sex?

[Asshole]

Yes, because you making a post pretending to cheerlead for the people that beat the shit out of someone because they're gay really belonged in SD. I mean wow, how edgy! With humor that sharp you don't even need Ginsu Knives!

So you think im pretending to dislike gays.. isnt there like 4 threads around here where i say its un-natural?

Infact i still find it funny that you all so quick to come in and chastise the people who dislike homosexuality, for not allowing gays to express thier beliefs

Yet in turn are you not trying to deny the right of the guys who hate them to express thier beliefs ?

[Kloaked Spirit]

KS, it plays a big role. I simply believe in purity. No not the "White Power!" Nazi idealism kind of purity but simply trying to keep our modern society as genetically clean and responsible as possible. As in not everyone should have the right to reproduce. Rapists, obese people with no concern for their bodies, gays, those parents that "forget" their children in burning cars, retards, etc etc.

Ok, so now we've established your connection between gays and child molesters is largely based on both of them having a mental/chemical imbalance. Based on other posts in this thread, we've established that you believe they're fucked up in the head because they act and behave in ways that do not appear to be "normal" when compared to modern society. Fine, let's run with that.

If I recall in a bitch fest between Tung and yourself, you have scoliosis, and it is a fairly severe case. If we're to accept your thoughts on comparing others to normal society, then you also have to accept that you are far from the "norm" based on physical attributes alone. Now, how does this play a role with your line of thought of "purity?"

Well let me go ahead and give you the escape route of stating that physical deformities are ok provided you're still able to responsibly contribute to society. At that point I'd counter-argue the fact that homosexuals can contribute at least as much as those with physical deformities, if not more so due to them being able to do jobs that other deformities may not be able to just on physical limitations (e.g. you stated that you couldn't work at a fast food place because of your back.) Also they can provide a role of responsible parenting to the children of heterosexual sex where the heterosexual parents could not do this function for some point in time. In fact, major studies have shown that the only real side effect of having gay parents vs. straight parents is that the child subject to more bigotry from others than having straight parents.

Or maybe you'd go on and state that by your own logic you should not be allowed to live due to your impurities. Fair enough. We'd just see how impure someone would have to be at that point. Once again, let's skip all of that and go to the mental connection between the two.

In another SD thread, you've gone on to talk about your brother which has depression caused by a chemical imbalanced (not the over diagnosed "depression" that people claim to have.) Well, does that mean I get to say that Depression victims (along with other mental illness sufferers) should be - at the very least - closely related to those two groups due to the "big way" the mental illness connects gays and child molesters as equals?

Now suppose that we say that "it's different with him." How is it different at all? Is it because he can take medication to stop being depressed for periods of time? Well that doesn't work because gay people can stop having same-sex sex for a period of time. Child molesters aren't feeling up little junior 24/7 either. Plus what if he stops his medication? Is he right back up on that platform with Johnny the child flasher?

The connection that you have between gays and child molesters based largely on both groups a mental imbalance is heavily flawed. You could certainly be one and not the other, and your reasoning for why they're connected branches out to so many groups in so many different ways that you're equating more people to child molesters than you believe in. I think your only connections between the two is the fact that you hate both groups of people, you believe they're "impure," and it just happens to be coincidental that they both (in your opinion) have a mental imbalance.

[Kloaked Spirit]

So you think im pretending to dislike gays.. isnt there like 4 threads around here where i say its un-natural?

Infact i still find it funny that you all so quick to come in and chastise the people who dislike homosexuality, for not allowing gays to express thier beliefs

Yet in turn are you not trying to deny the right of the guys who hate them to express thier beliefs ?

No, I'm saying you're pretending to like the torturing and near killing of gays just based on the fact that they are indeed gay. Now are you stating that these people are in the right and they should have done this because of the fact that the victim is gay? If so I'll undelete the post because then it is more in line with what others have said. However it seems that while you may think being gay is unnatural, you were taking the piss out of the fact that the victim was nearly killed over it. That is why it was deleted.

P.S. Mr. Oblivious, have you read KAF's postings? Hell, he was just pissed that they didn't kill him but only beat him up instead. If I really did what you said I do, they wouldn't be up here, and I certainly wouldn't respond to them.

[Furyous]

KS, it plays a big role. I simply believe in purity. No not the "White Power!" Nazi idealism kind of purity but simply trying to keep our modern society as genetically clean and responsible as possible. As in not everyone should have the right to reproduce. Rapists, obese people with no concern for their bodies, gays, those parents that "forget" their children in burning cars, retards, etc etc.

What about people with Scoliosis? Should we kill them too? Maybe not allow them to have sex with anyone? Maybe we could just sterilize them at birth?

Just wondering how we keep the blood line clean and make sure we don't have any people walking around with crooked spines...


*Edit
Damnit! KS beat me to the punch... My thoughts still stand...

[Mikey:)]

Give up guys, we're obviously all brainwashed into not hating gays... it's the US governments latest plan to ensure control over the people. It's all so clear now.

[JaiJai]

KS... that was a well thought out post (Y)

and I hope KAF you understand exactly what KS intended by it. He's not judging you or your brother...he's saying in order to avoid a double standard here, you have to look at it from the opposing angle as well. You can't pick and choose who you feel "contaminates" humankind. Either all flawed/abnormal individuals do, or none, there should be no fence setting here, based on your own flaws or those of which you happen to approve of.

Anyways...there's enough threads debating homosexuality and racism ... Monk, sorry to hear about your friend. (f)

p.s. Monk you asked why do people still teach their kids that homosexuality is wrong rather than simply telling them it's cool...

Well...christianity is the root of moral upbringing.. it's the foundation of basic law and guidance for most people (not to everyone of course)..So for any devout christian, it is very fundamental....homosexuality is specifcally mentioned as a sin in the bible....and most devout christians won't compromise this belief even in the face of political correctness. It's a conviction to christians, and most won't waver. To alot of dedicated christians, it's as powerful as one of the 10 commandments. And let's face it.. christians don't see it as being prejudice against a race, color etc.. they see it as being against a particular lifestyle that their faith specifically tells them is wrong. So it stands to reason they will teach their children this lifestyle is against god's law...same as they teach them murder, theft, adultery etc.. is against it.

[Colonel Sanders]

Well I have done my research on Scoliosis and it has not been definitely confirmed that it is generational genetic. In fact most doctors agree that it isn't, which would make sense because my family and my friends family has no history of it...it is still largely unknown how it is caused....just like medicine still has no clue why a massive number of humans have poor eye sight to the point you either have corrective lenses or you won't be able to to do anything in this world.... One thing is clear about that though because we do know that nearly nobody back in the day had bad eyesight. Most likely it is due to some kind of modern poisons/carcinogens and shit that is in our food/water and what not.

Now personally I have already decided that I will never have children, I really do think I could be a good father when I'm settled down but I just do not have any desire to bring life into this fucked up world, that is how I see it.

Now I know I am not some perfect Aryan White guy. I am naturally weak, have Scoliosis, bad eyesight, one ear is higher than the other, and my left leg is slightly longer than the other...and that is all I know about. Other than that I go about my life fairly normal and I don't look idiotic. So KS I think it would be fair to say that these things do not fall into my role of Impurities. Now back in the day I would be pretty much fucked, bad eyesight and a curved back would leave a man back in those days to more than likely death (not that those even existed "back in the day")...however now I can still contribute in some way, I just can't go out playing sports, hunting, and lifting shit.

Can gays contribute? Sure they can economy wise, like just about anyone. But from the beginning I wasn't even talking about that, I was talking more along the lines of morality and intended nature.....and also I guess the real idiots of our society (like the parents leaving children in 140 degree cars like I mentioned earlier). So it's quite simple; nature and just the way humans were created is all ya need to know that being gay is unnatural, against the laws of humanity as a species, and quite frankly you would have to be a mental nut case...a retard to go gay and actually believe in it.

Also I am confused on how yer trying to connect all of this to my dead brother who had depression issues. Last time I checked mental clinical depression=/molesters and gays. Sure they both have something wrong with them in the head and maybe chemical imbalances but they are all very very different things. The brain is quite complicated and any number of reactions or outward influences can have an impact...for others it's a (what they think) conscious choice and for others it is a diagnosed chemical imbalance. I simply don't have all the answers as to why it happens and I won't pretend to know...but that is not contradicting myself that is simple leaving the decision in the hands of nature and human design. We aren't created/born either physically or mentally to be bisexual...IT IS THAT SIMPLE. That is all I need to know that being gay is wrong and an abomination against humanity.


PS: And yeh Furious you want to know how we keep the bloodline clean. Well for starters we can keep tabs on all the people we have files on and monitor em every now and again...would take a lot of manpower but I think it would be well worth the cause because I believe by far that these various mental nut cases reproducing is the greatest threat facing modern civilizations. Although I doubt any of this would be feasible until we keep progressing and eventually get to the point where humanity is united under one government. Only then will the human race be responsible enough to look after it's future and not be spilling out babies with and from whoever all the time.

[Kloaked Spirit]

I will get into the rest of the post tomorrow, as there's other things that don't quite logically follow (assuming I'm reading you correctly that is.) But for now, I'll address this:

Also I am confused on how yer trying to connect all of this to my dead brother who had depression issues. Last time I checked mental clinical depression=/molesters and gays. Sure they both have something wrong with them in the head and maybe chemical imbalances but they are all very very different things. The brain is quite complicated and any number of reactions or outward influences can have an impact...for others it's a (what they think) conscious choice and for others it is a diagnosed chemical imbalance. I simply don't have all the answers as to why it happens and I won't pretend to know..

Well to clear up the confusion, let's walk through your argument in a logical format.

- In your argument, group A = group B in a huge part because of component X. (Gays = Child Molesters "in a huge way" due to mental/chemical imbalances.)

- Now group C also has component X as well. (Severe depression caused by mental/chemical imbalance, which is found in the above groups)

- Now, since it was only "a huge way" and not "the only reason" Group A = Group B, we can't state that group A = group B = group C (and I never said Depression sufferers = Gays = Child Molesters.)

- However, we can logically deduce that because all 3 groups have component X (chemical/mental imbalance,) all 3 groups must be very close in nature due to the fact that your initial argument of Group A = Group B was in "a huge way" contributed to the same thing that depression suffers deal with.

This was how we could tie in your brother into your initial argument using your own logical connection between the two. This is also why I asked you how big of a role the chemical/mental imbalance played in your connection in the first place.

Now, both you and I would agree to the idea that Depression Sufferers != Gays or Child Molesters. That is why I stated that your initial argument for your comparison was logically flawed, and why I thought that your comparison was based more from other components (hatred for both groups and impurities) and the mental imbalance played a lesser role than you think it does.

[Smash Bros]

but the actions of the parents do not pass onto the child.

so based on that the because the parents are fat/depressed/deformed etc does not mean that the child will be. it is wrong to assume that because the parents are a certain way that the child will be.

look at my parents they were both drug addicts and alcoholics. yet i am neither. but based on your arguments because they are a drain on modern society they should not be allowed to reproduce.

also i have pictures in the post your pic thread. i am not ashamed of who i am. i am fat and have bad health. it is who i am. what matters to me is my mental compacity and that those who are close to me know and love me for who i am and nto what i look like.

[Drunken Monk]

Well firstly a big thanks to all those people who were intelligent enough to actually understand what this thread was about and replied appropriately to it. Then again i didn't set any pre-set agenda of appropriateness, so i suppose all posts are valid. I am however only going to reply to the posts which troubled or disturbed me to a great extent because for all the others out there (KS, JaiJai, Smash Bros, Mikey, Dai etc etc) all i have to say is i'm glad people like u exist.


Now, first addressing the ever competent "Asshole". From what i understand of ur incoherent ramblings, you're talking about having the freedom to express yourself in any way u choose. Hence your objections to having your post deleted. You are accusing the admins for deleting your post based on the fact that you want your expression to be voiced without any objections to it, and calling them hypocritical because they say if gays can do it, then they should be able to allow you to do it as well. Well you contradicted yourself the moment you accused them of being hypocritical. Because if you want people to tolerate bigotry and hatred and homphobia, you better damn well tolerate homosexuality as well, even if you think it's wrong and messed up, because trust me, a lot of people may think your thoughts are messed up as well. There really is nothing you can do about it.


I'll address KAF in a seperate post. I dont care if it's double posting :P

[Drunken Monk]

Now as far as KAF is concerned. I was actually begining to think that you had a solid reason and a good basis for supporting your bigotry and hatred, right up until the point u started making references and mentioned "purity" in society. Firstly, we are not living in a "modern society" like you mentioned in your posts, we are living in a "post-modern" society. Modernists interpretations and theories on society are redundant and do not apply to the majority norm that has developed today. Secondly, your concept of "purity" and physical and mental superiority is completely based on value judgements and has no scientific relevance whatsoever. Ever heard of a man called Stephen Hawkins? He has all the symptoms you're talking about..a weak deformed body (as linked to your claims that anyone with physical anomolies such as obesity is not genetically fit) AND he had a mind with more chemical imbalances than in a bi-polar patient (the doctors told him he wouldn't live beyond the age of 20 and it fits in with your claims that chemical imbalances are genetically inferior as well). Now i'm sure no matter how vulgar your brain is, you can surely admit that Stephen Hawkin has more brains and has done more for humanity than everyone in this forum put together.


Now moving on to the fact that you think homosexuality is wrong and unnatural. Again, what are u basing these claims on? You speak as if you were sitting at the helm when the universe and the natural order was created and you've studied a set of iron laws which govern the natural world. Well the "survival of the fittest" and the "natural order" that you're talking about my friend, should not apply to human beings in the first place, because we are meant to have rational, reasoning skills. I say "meant" to have, because some people prove over and over again that evolution has bypassed them altogether. Also your claim that homosexuality was never meant to be in the first place and that we were only intended to have sexual relations with members of the opposite gender..again, where's the iron law which says that? Women understand other women better than any man i've ever seen, and men understand and form better bonds with men than with any woman i've ever seen. Perhaps there's a clue that women and men should be drawn to other people from their own gender because a stronger emotional bond is developed. Who are you to declare what is and isn't "natural". At the end of the, all you are doing is voicing your value judgements i.e. your own thoughts and opinions which in this case are prejudiced, biased and completely repulsive. Well because they are thoughts and opinions, i will tolerate them, and at the end of the day, this whole world revolves around thoughts and opinions. But because that is the case, i have a right to voice my own..and i just did.

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't think yer giving very much thought into yer posts mate.

I would like to see your science that says people with down syndrome and clinical depression, bi-polar, is normal for a human being, that should be entertaining. If not I think I'll stick to my obvious outlines of what is considered normal.

Women understand women better, men and men. Of course we form bonds faster with people of the same gender...it's because we think alike and are just engineered the same for the most part. That doesn't mean I want to fuck my best friend either.

Theres a difference between a loving bond between friends and a sexual bond.... a BIG difference. And if you and certain gays can't understand that then I don't know what else to say.

And just like I've said many times the natural order that you think I am making up is how we are born...if we as a species were meant to be bisexual we would be created very differently both physically and mentally....since we are not it's quite clear why there are two genders and why those two genders just happen to have opposite sexual organs for making babies....last time I checked mother fucker the main reason for them is for reproducing...two men or women cannot make a child simple as that. If anyone cannot comprehend that simple fact of nature as all the proof one needs that being gay is wrong for humans then you have something SERIOUSLY wrong with you.

[Calienta]

Kind of a side note, but from what I've read humans and dolphins are the only species that actually ENJOY intercourse. So it would appear that nature intended it not just for reproductive purposes. I don't feel the argument washes in that light.

[Colonel Sanders]

lol was expecting a response like that. Failure. I always laugh at people who try to compare human emotion and sexual pleasure to animal behaviour. Funny how people will go so far as to de evolution humans in their arguments and points for some desperate attempt to justify homosexuality.

PS: Half the reason the world is so screwed right now is because humans still like to have mindless irresponsible sex just for pleasure constantly. Anyone should be able to see that and that is half the theme in the posts I've had. Not saying that having sex for pleasure is a bad thing, far from, it is actually quite good from a medical standpoint. But like I have been trying to say it's about taking responsibility.

As Human civilization evolves, technology, government, and the like, our population skyrockets; at the same time we should also evolve our way of thinking....which as I can tell is sadly not catching on. Either because people simply don't want to, political/religious brainwashing, or because of genetics...a mix of both I think.

If you are a sexual being and are very social go for it, have all the sex you want...only in this day and age you should take responsibility. Wear a condom, take the pill, have an operation, simply restrain yourself. Whatever it may be we as a species have evolved technologically and socially to the point to where we can be responsible and knowledgeable sexually...we have to be or else we are doomed. It's not like back in the day where you could raise 8 kids on farm/town, have yer family share all the caring. No no now we have massive governments, money makes the world go round....so so many things I cannot be bothered to list to tell you why responsibility is a must for modern civilization. Change your way of thinking guys, like some of us already have.

[Calienta]

As Human civilization evolves, technology, government, and the like, our population skyrockets; at the same time we should also evolve our way of thinking....which as I can tell is sadly not catching on. Either because people simply don't want to, political/religious brainwashing, or because of genetics...a mix of both I think.

We're evolving but you want us to still hold the same sexual tendencies as all animal life forms :P So I'm still confused as to how your argument works one way and then changes to suit your purpose?

[Colonel Sanders]

You are saying it would be like telling me to breathe, walk, or swallow a different way just because it's different or newer (not better). You can't and should not and yes unnatural to change something that has been hardwired into your brain and physically as well from years of lineage, genetics, and possibly evolution. You make so sense cali.

[Calienta]

it's like arguing with a brick wall :(

[Mikey:)]

Abnormality is a part of normality. I'd like to know where your fear of all things different comes from? Have you ever spent time with people with disabilities or any of the groups you claim have no right to life, or are you just a bigot?

If anyone should loose the right to reproduce it's those with bigoted opinions so that future generations can be free from idiotic prejudice being forced upon them by parents who clearly haven't a clue about the world.

[Quaker]

Abnormality is a part of normality. I'd like to know where your fear of all things different comes from? Have you ever spent time with people with disabilities or any of the groups you claim have no right to life, or are you just a bigot?

If anyone should loose the right to reproduce it's those with bigoted opinions so that future generations can be free from idiotic prejudice being forced upon them by parents who clearly haven't a clue about the world.

ahh Mikey that is the best part of this, apparently KAF, by his own admission, has severe scoliosis... to the point where he can't stand up for long periods of time. Add on to that his "I'm going to kill myself because I'm worthless" stance not more than three months ago and you see why I always find his rantings about "weak" people funny.

KAF, just because you are a failure at life no need to try and drag everyone else down with you.

[Drunken Monk]

it's like arguing with a brick wall :(

A brick wall that keeps on talking. KAF let me tell you, with all your talk about wanting the perfect strain of genetically enhanced human beings and following your pre-programmed instincts and the natural order and all that, i'm surprised you haven't become some sort of serial killer or mass murderer already. Oh wait, there was one of you around before. Hitler or something i think his name was right? yeah yeah, he hated Slavs because he thought east Europeans were of a genetically inferior race. yeah i think i remember him now.

I cannot imagine a rational human being expelling the level of shit that you do, so i can only come to the logical conclusion that you are in fact a semi-intelligent fish, or perhaps a sub-species of rodent or even a wombat. :hehe:

[Colonel Sanders]

Yeah because I said that I think black or whites or whoever is superior. It's funny that when you people can't think up anything to combat my laws of nature/human creation argument you resort to personal attacks and bring up past history that have nothing to do with the thread.

One more reason to hate gays and hate the ignorant people who support em.

[Drunken Monk]

okay i was only half kidding about the whole you being a fish comment but now i really am begining to think you're a bit sub-human. i highlighted and intelligently argued every point you made in this thread without referring to any past instances or personal insults and all you did was change what you were saying. so as far as this thread is concerned, you have proven yourself to be inconsistent, you have proven yourself to be illogical and as a consequence of the above two, you have also proven yourself to be highly unintelligent. so how about you drop the ambiguity and make a clear list, numbering the points you're making. For example, i hate gays because:

1) they're better than me
2) my best friend was gay and he still stole my girl
3) one of them said i should change my hairstyle in order to not look like a twat etc etc etc

ofcourse your points are going to be something totally different that what i've said, but i hope u get the idea. if you want a rational, logical arguement based on what you've said, say it in a clear, accurate format, and i'll reply to whatever you're posting with the exact same accuracy and validity. go on then...

[Mikey:)]

I'd like to know exactly what kaf is contributing to society and the world in general that entitles him to see other people as less worthy of their human rights? My son is paralyzed and brain damaged and therefore unable to contribute to society in any tangible way, under kafs law that would make him unworthy of life. So what should we do with those parasites that are just too lazy to do anything worthwhile with their lives and instead choose to just sponge off their parents instead?

[Smash Bros]

kaf you said somewhere in here that humans are the only species to engage in bi/same-sex sexual practices. thats not true. some animals do it aswell. i believe monkeys are one(and other types of apes) and they are the closest to the human species.

also based on your whole "purity" speach i would like to know what you consider normal?? seeing as normal doesnt have a definitive definition based on the fact that anyone has a different view of normal.

if you want us to actually listen to you then state your argument clearly and stick to it.

[Jacx]

http://www.livescience.com/bestimg/index.php?url=&cat=gayanimals

Homosexuality has been documented in almost 500 species of animals, signaling that sexual preference is predetermined. Considered the closest living relative to humans, bonobos are not shy about seeking sexual pleasure. Nearly all of these peace-loving apes are bisexual and often resolve conflict by the "make love, not war" principle. They copulate frequently, scream out in delight while doing so, and often engage in homosexual activities. About two thirds of the homosexual activities are amongst females.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604/

Mom and Dad and Dad
Almost a quarter of black swan families are parented by homosexual couples. Male couples sometimes mate with a female just to have a baby. Once she lays the egg, they chase her away, hatch the egg, and raise a family on their own.

"Homosexuality" and "heterosexuality" are terms defined by societal boundaries, invisible in the animal kingdom.

"Many species are hermaphrodites," Bockman said. Hermaphrodites have both male and female sex organs. A lot of marine species have no sex life at all, but just squirt their eggs or semen into sea.

Some creatures even reproduce asexually, by dividing themselves into two organisms. In one species of gecko, females clone themselves.


http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/the_gay_animal_kingdom.php?page=all&p=y

Male big horn sheep live in what are often called "homosexual societies." They bond through genital licking and anal intercourse, which often ends in ejaculation. If a male sheep chooses to not have gay sex, it becomes a social outcast. Ironically, scientists call such straight-laced males "effeminate."

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in "penis fencing," which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages



OMG we need to put them all to death to protect the concept of human morality...how dare these animals fornicate in such ways to influence our children, shoot them all for they are a abomination of god's law (of klf depending on who u find more devine)...bastards.

Life is funny sometimes eh

[Colonel Sanders]

Umm I never said that humans were the only ones to go with homosexuality Smash or Jacx... I said it was stupid to compare human intellect to animal behaviour on the subject but that was about it.

And yeah Mikey sorry to hear that but I have said numerous times even before this thread that I think it is stupid to let brain damaged and retardation from birth people live. Not that I think it's disgusting or anything it's just wrong and in my opinion wasteful. I mean to me it's like the Shaivo case way back in the day where people were debating whether she should stay alive or not. People who can't....well let me just keep it simple...retards shouldn't be kept alive. It's sad to see, cruel, and a deprivation to the people who pay to support the retards themselves, and the workers and facilities to support em. I just know that if I was to be brain damaged in any way at all I would not want my father to keep me alive or vice versa, I sure as hell wouldn't have my son go through life like that...it's just pointless.

[Smash Bros]

Umm I never said that humans were the only ones to go with homosexuality Smash or Jacx... I said it was stupid to compare human intellect to animal behaviour on the subject but that was about it.

And yeah Mikey sorry to hear that but I have said numerous times even before this thread that I think it is stupid to let brain damaged and retardation from birth people live. Not that I think it's disgusting or anything it's just wrong and in my opinion wasteful. I mean to me it's like the Shaivo case way back in the day where people were debating whether she should stay alive or not. People who can't....well let me just keep it simple...retards shouldn't be kept alive. It's sad to see, cruel, and a deprivation to the people who pay to support the retards themselves, and the workers and facilities to support em. I just know that if I was to be brain damaged in any way at all I would not want my father to keep me alive or vice versa, I sure as hell wouldn't have my son go through life like that...it's just pointless.

back in the day homosexuality was accepted. it wasnt until after the church took over that it wasnt. yes deformed people were killed and what not. BUT alot has changed.

and yes i know you are going to say something like "but we live in a modern society" and continue along that kind of thought train BUT if the catholic church hadnt of came into power then we would be a more advanced culture.

[Colonel Sanders]

No argument there. But just because society progresses doesn't necessarily mean everything is going to be better and we make better judgments. History has obviously proven that....in fact here lately in this century it has been quite the opposite, homosexuality is no exception imo.

Does anyone ever sit back and just think, ask themselves, why there are so many rapists, gays, murderer's, obese people, incompetency, cowards, etc etc etc these days? Corruption of society is the only answer one can come up with...and as said homosexuality is no exception to that corruption.

[Smash Bros]

ok i want to know why you class obese people in that catogorey??

[Colonel Sanders]

Well eh because unless they have some medical condition that they can't control obese people quite frankly disgust me. I don't understand whats so damn hard about self control and respecting your body. Put down the burger/shake/candybar, whatever, have some bloody willpower, spend just 30 minutes of your day exercising. Not that fucking hard to do and the fact so many people simply don't care and have total disregard for their bodies and self image alone shows how far society has fallen.

[Uganja]

ahh Mikey that is the best part of this, apparently KAF, by his own admission, has severe scoliosis... to the point where he can't stand up for long periods of time. Add on to that his "I'm going to kill myself because I'm worthless" stance not more than three months ago and you see why I always find his rantings about "weak" people funny.

KAF, just because you are a failure at life no need to try and drag everyone else down with you.

This post perfectly summed up the whole thing...


Anyway KAF, you'll probably get stabbed to death one day by an overweight homosexual, simply for being a cripple. I believe they call that Karma.

[Mikey:)]

Umm I never said that humans were the only ones to go with homosexuality Smash or Jacx... I said it was stupid to compare human intellect to animal behaviour on the subject but that was about it.

And yeah Mikey sorry to hear that but I have said numerous times even before this thread that I think it is stupid to let brain damaged and retardation from birth people live. Not that I think it's disgusting or anything it's just wrong and in my opinion wasteful. I mean to me it's like the Shaivo case way back in the day where people were debating whether she should stay alive or not. People who can't....well let me just keep it simple...retards shouldn't be kept alive. It's sad to see, cruel, and a deprivation to the people who pay to support the retards themselves, and the workers and facilities to support em. I just know that if I was to be brain damaged in any way at all I would not want my father to keep me alive or vice versa, I sure as hell wouldn't have my son go through life like that...it's just pointless.

You may think it's stupid and pointless. Again you speak with no real understanding of the issues. The truth is that he brings much joy to the many people who love him, that is something that you cannot measure in any tangible way. He brings motivation to myself to be a better person and adds meaning to my life. He also creates a whole lot of employment for the therapists and doctors he relies on, all of which enjoy spending time with him and working with disabled children. Ask them if they feel their time is being wasted and how important it is to them to be doing something they really enjoy for a living. He is kept alive through love and as a result he is one one the happiest children you will ever meet, despite his problems. You may not see that his life has any tangible value or point but believe me his existence makes this world a better place in many ways to many people. Can the same be said about yours?

[Calienta]

And KAF can you really say those kids shouldn't be allowed to live until you actually have one of your own? It's easy to put yourself in others' shoes without fully understanding.

[Todd]

AND YA KNOOOW I look sexy..

haha, about as attractive as a shitting dog, ugly cunt... you don't deserve to live "imo" :)

[Dai]

It was once said that the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.
Hubert H. Humphrey

Couldn't say it any better myself.

[Colonel Sanders]

Well Mikey/Cali you are right I most likely never will fully understand the subject until something like that happens directly to someone closely in my life. So help me understand....

Mikey you said he brings you and the people who take care of him much joy and love? I just don't understand how, he cannot return love and has no idea what is going on like the rest of us; from my standpoint every time I would look at a sickly individual like that I would feel sad and pity....I don't know what other way I possibly could feel. I know it isn't a sense of accomplishment or "doing the right thing" because it is the same thing all the time day after day, you know he can never get better, have an accomplishment of his own in life, see em take the steps....like I said enlighten me.

[Smash Bros]

Well eh because unless they have some medical condition that they can't control obese people quite frankly disgust me. I don't understand whats so damn hard about self control and respecting your body. Put down the burger/shake/candybar, whatever, have some bloody willpower, spend just 30 minutes of your day exercising. Not that fucking hard to do and the fact so many people simply don't care and have total disregard for their bodies and self image alone shows how far society has fallen.

so to you the people that dont have a reason to be fat (meaning they have a chemical imbalance in the brain) have a reason to live yet those that choose to be fat dont have the right??

[Mikey:)]

Well Mikey/Cali you are right I most likely never will fully understand the subject until something like that happens directly to someone closely in my life. So help me understand....

Mikey you said he brings you and the people who take care of him much joy and love? I just don't understand how, he cannot return love and has no idea what is going on like the rest of us; from my standpoint every time I would look at a sickly individual like that I would feel sad and pity....I don't know what other way I possibly could feel. I know it isn't a sense of accomplishment or "doing the right thing" because it is the same thing all the time day after day, you know he can never get better, have an accomplishment of his own in life, see em take the steps....like I said enlighten me.

Its called love.

[Colonel Sanders]

Alright?

Love is not supposed to delude your sense of perception. I think it's something else even you can't fully explain.

PS: Smash I don't understand what yer saying. What does chemical imbalance have to do with people choosing to be fat and not having any willpower?

[Smash Bros]

you said before that "unless they have some medical condition that they can't control"

which means if they have a medical condition or something that they cant control that would make them have a chemical imbalance as gay people cant choose to be gay either.

now you dont mind them. you only hate the ones that choose that way.

which makes what you a hypocrite as you state the same thing twice with 2 different views on it

[Mikey:)]

Alright?

Love is not supposed to delude your sense of perception. I think it's something else even you can't fully explain.


Sorry I haven't read the official rule book on love so I'm not as clear as you seem to be about what love is and isn't supposed to do, however I will try to explain. As far as I am aware perception is subjective and I would say that our perceptions of love are very different. Being such a powerful emotion (I would say the most powerful but I have a feeling that you would argue, with merit, that hate is) love has the ability to alter perception. Perception being subjective means that there is no truth or reality to any situation except for that experienced by those who are living it. For instance I could look at the death of your brother and say "Hey, why do you waste time feeling bad and missing him? Thats illogical, it wont change anything." Because I am detached from your situation it would be easy for me to look at it in such a cold and logical manner but it doesn't make your reality a delusional one, just a different one. To put it logically my son enjoys his life, he smiles and laughs and that brings me happiness, I want him to keep on enjoying it for as long as possible so we can both enjoy that happiness. In this respect he adds value to my life and everyone else who loves him.

[Colonel Sanders]

Fair enough. I guess why that is half the country sees my side and other half doesn't.

Just so ya know though I have never cried or felt anguish once from my brothers suicide. I felt sad about it but I guess I am strong in that area knowing shit happens randomly and to everybody and has throughout history, my case isn't special why get pissy over it etc. I am not even sure I would be phased or cry over my fathers death if he died in a car accident tomorrow and he and I are real close these days. That doesn't mean I don't feel compassion or anything though. Also I would agree that love is the strongest emotion for the majority of people, just not for me.

[Smash Bros]

Fair enough. I guess why that is half the country sees my side and other half doesn't.

Just so ya know though I have never cried or felt anguish once from my brothers suicide. I felt sad about it but I guess I am strong in that area knowing shit happens randomly and to everybody and has throughout history, my case isn't special why get pissy over it etc. I am not even sure I would be phased or cry over my fathers death if he died in a car accident tomorrow and he and I are real close these days. That doesn't mean I don't feel compassion or anything though. Also I would agree that love is the strongest emotion for the majority of people, just not for me.

dude no disrespect or anything but thats cold. IMHO if someone close to you passes away the natural reaction is to cry. everyone does it. just because you dont cry doesnt mean that your "strong" in that area it means that your mind is in an emotional shock and shuts down the thoughts about that area of your life.

yes i know what i am talking about cause when my dad passed i didnt cry either at first. it took a few years before i did. if you dont cry and release it from your system you will always be sad and distance yourself from everyone else because of it.

just let it go.

[Colonel Sanders]

Maybe that is how the majority of people are, that doesn't mean everyone is and has that delayed reaction and eventually has to "let go".

This is my brother: http://medialab.semissourian.com/story/72703.html (I posted this because I know some people think my whole story is bullshit and that it's just an internet front to gain sympathy). So he died in 2002, and since then I haven't cried once...felt sad sure, but never cried.....never fell into a pit of extreme sorrow for even a minute of time. I remember like it was yesterday when I got the news; when I was out of state at a friends..I just sat there and said to myself... "well shit, that sucks"; sounds cold I know but one suicide, when I knew he already had depression problems, just didn't seem that huge in the whole aspect of things....life goes on. Now sure I was young but I knew, and everyone else told me, that I was mature for my age. I was saying the same stuff and having the same debates about gays, abortion, and even politics with adults 20 years older than me at age 12-13 as I am now with hardly any change. The experience did give me a different outlook on family and love though, one that I still stay true to today....it also shaped my darker outlooks on life and more than likely is what drove me to have stronger than average emotions toward world chaos and human nature.

I don't know what to tell ya man other than I really do not have anything to let go. I am plenty social now and I really cannot see any adverse effect his death has had on me even though he and I got pretty close in the year before his death, especially when he got married.

So as I hope you can understand some people (like me I believe) are simply just strong and don't give much thought to it. I probably wouldn't be agnostic, and have my strong feelings towards gays, abortion, so many other things and the world as a whole, that I do if my brain was not wired like that to be strong.

[Todd]

Mate i think smash hit the nail on the head with his post, as much as you might believe your brothers death didn't effect you, it has. You have such cold views on many things and are brimming with hatred.

Also, you always use the phrase "they don't deserve to live" which says something to me...

I think your brothers death has effected you intensly, and you need abit of help...

[Smash Bros]

thanks mate. im just not going to go there. ill let jesse come in and evaulate him lol.

but seriously i never thought that my dad's death effected me at all. wasnt until later on in life that i realised it has heaps. it is always there in your mind and something that is always there has a direct bearing on how you behave at the time and what you say/react to different situations.


sorry for derailing the thread. ill start a new one later

[Tca]

So as I hope you can understand some people (like me I believe) are simply just strong and don't give much thought to it. I probably wouldn't be agnostic, and have my strong feelings towards gays, abortion, so many other things and the world as a whole, that I do if my brain was not wired like that to be strong.

Im gonna just take this part of your post and this:

The experience did give me a different outlook on family and love though, one that I still stay true to today....it also shaped my darker outlooks on life and more than likely is what drove me to have stronger than average emotions toward world chaos and human nature.

The bolded is a straight contradiction to you saying it didn't have an effect on you, adverse or not, it had an effect on you, that neither you or anyone else can deny, im not here to argue or debate any of these views, as obviously your a very strong minded individual, and i praise you for that, you have views, which although maybe controversial (sp) you stick to them, for that i give you your due.

To sit here n say it didnt have an effect on you is a complete n utter wank and condescending to everyones intelligence. Take what you want from this, but as i am and have been for along time studying psychology, if you were gonna take the least bitta solace from any of this, i'd take it from me.

For the record in this whole argument though, chemical imbalances aside, anyone has the ability to be anyway they want with their mind, people are not being brainwashed and im a complete atheist and think religion (sp) is a pile o'horseshite.

Resume. :popcorn:

[Drunken Monk]

KAF as far as i'm concerned, your thoughts flitting from one line of argument to the other, as well as your insane deviations of topic, just highlight your inconsistency. you're not even 20 and you believe you have the world all figured out. Take a break from that little chamber inside your head u spend in all day and learn to empathise with people and what they're feeling. Empathy and awareness, both of yourself and others, is the only thing that'll ever help you fully appreciate why your opinions on, not just homosexuality, but people with disabilities, patterns of behaviour as well as reactions to situations, is COMPLETELY off. Fair enough, perception is subjective and experiences are subjective as well and vary from person to person and therefore you do have the right to possess the opinions you possess. But you're trying to take it a step further by trying to impose it on others. Not a very intelligent thing to do.

[Colonel Sanders]

Well TCA i guess yer right it has effected me, but I don't think I contradicted myself, or at least did not mean to. I meant to say that it hasn't adversely affected me as in as far as I can tell, I didn't fall into depression about it, become a social outcast, not know how to respond to certain situations etc.

But I would hardly consider my strong emotions on things a bad thing, in fact if everyone had my emotions about everything, no matter what stance they take, this world would look a lot less grim and corrupt....but it seems the majority just don't give a fuck and won't spend the time to debate it/try and do good about it.

Also I would highly disagree about the brainwashing part. Sure everyone has a choice but they have to be shown multiple sides as a constant for em to make a choice in the first place; and when society/government/media places only one view in front of them to be deemed as acceptable, the average person these days then becomes brainwashed by that, therefore not thinking for themselves and just adapting what The Man has deemed to be right...no matter how subtle it may seem.

[Quaker]

Also I would highly disagree about the brainwashing part. Sure everyone has a choice but they have to be shown multiple sides as a constant for em to make a choice in the first place; and when society/government/media places only one view in front of them to be deemed as acceptable, the average person these days then becomes brainwashed by that, therefore not thinking for themselves and just adapting what The Man has deemed to be right...no matter how subtle it may seem.

Ahhh KAF you are truly an amusing person to watch on here. Oh how you believe you are oh-so mature has got to be the best part, and your applauding yourself for holding the same views now that you did at 12 or 13 comes in at a close second.

Are you really incapable of making a point without constantly contradicting yourself, are we really going back to the days where Tron and I would point out your inconsistencies and you'd simply state "I meant to say... <insert more garbage>"? Please construct a clear argument before you come and spread your garbage, please post some data to back up your garbage.

What you do is not called a debate, in a debate, both sides present their argument with facts, published papers etc. backing them up and then they duke it out. In a debate you don't constantly say, "oh believe me...." "oh trust me, i know..." Who are you for us to put our trust into?

Is it really that hard of a concept to understand?

Just to drive the point home...

Jacx posted an article showing over 500 species have been found to have homosexual tendencies.

You replied stating you agreed with him but didn't believe humans should be compared to animals.

You then go on to make a post stating homosexuality is not natural and is actually a result of being brainwashed.

Now an obvious question remains unanswered, namely why is homosexuality found in animals? Or put another way, why is homosexuality found to occur in nature without the involvement of the things you mentioned (society, media and government)?

Are animals brainwashed too?

[HellRaiser]

Society has gone to shit and law and order is a pipedream because it doesn't equate to justice.
Political rhetoric and political correctness rule the social pecking order rather then majority rules concept or
law of the jungle idealism that has clearly been the way since the beginning of humanity existence.
Hence, chaos has become the new social 'norm' as each day passes as we come to acccept
the acts and atrocities with less emotional concern and become immune to fighting for change.
Hence, society has failed and we are due for a social cleansing or in otherwards an apocalyptic rebirth.

So we shall wait for the Mayan calender to come to pass, hehehe
That about sums up all your conversations and arguments over various subjects of worth, values and freedoms lol.

Thank you and goodnight.... :)

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't know why yer rambling now Quaker. I haven't contradicted myself in this thread nor have I said "just trust me".

As far as the animal part. Animals are different, driven by instinct and nothing else. Are you saying humans should be the same? If we did that would be de-evolving our culture a couple hundred thousand years. Men would run around raping women and murder and lust would be rampant...is that what you want? Homosexuality is apart of that de-evolution.

[Quaker]

As far as the animal part. Animals are different, driven by instinct and nothing else. Are you saying humans should be the same? If we did that would be de-evolving our culture a couple hundred thousand years. Men would run around raping women and murder and lust would be rampant...is that what you want? Homosexuality is apart of that de-evolution.

Incorrect, you cannot say homosexuality is not natural and in the same breath turn around and say you accept that it naturally occurs in nature.

Again, as I asked you the first time, why does homosexuality occur naturally in nature without any human involvement?

You say you have never said "oh just trust me" but then again for some reason you just made a point without having anything to back yourself up with, no facts, now data, no research. Again remind us all please, why should be just go along with what you know to be the truth?

[Colonel Sanders]

Why should people go along with the theory of evolution and accept it as fact when it clearly isn't? Why should we go along with you and the article you always post about homosexuality as if it proves that it is natural and okay when it clearly does not?

Which is why I've chosen to fall back on what every fiber of my being tells me. That homosexuality is wrong (tell me why isn't the majority of the world bi-sexual, and also why does mostly everyone find it disgusting in some way, food for thought?). The same thing that also tells me to be Agnostic and never accept any theory trying to explain our origins because I as a strong-willed/minded individual knows that my limited knowledge and place in this universe will never be able to know in my lifetime, why spend the time thinking about it.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Which is why I've chosen to fall back on what every fiber of my being tells me. That homosexuality is wrong (tell me why isn't the majority of the world bi-sexual, and also why does mostly everyone find it disgusting in some way, food for thought?). The same thing that also tells me to be Agnostic and never accept any theory trying to explain our origins because I as a strong-willed/minded individual knows that my limited knowledge and place in this universe will never be able to know in my lifetime, why spend the time thinking about it.

I've bolded the problem for you.

Your arguments have been reduced to "I'm right because I think I'm right." With almost every single point you've made, you had someone combat it with either logical thinking or at least some scientific evidence to refute your statement. However you've failed to do the same for our points. You just make very high-level blanket statements. Of course, these statements don't help because you do create inconsistencies often. In fact you did it with your last two points.

As far as the animal part. Animals are different, driven by instinct and nothing else. Are you saying humans should be the same? If we did that would be de-evolving our culture a couple hundred thousand years. Men would run around raping women and murder and lust would be rampant...is that what you want? Homosexuality is apart of that de-evolution.

...

Why should people go along with the theory of evolution and accept it as fact when it clearly isn't? Why should we go along with you and the article you always post about homosexuality as if it proves that it is natural and okay when it clearly does not?

So here are the three bolded statements you made:

- You think that human behavior should not be compared to animal behavior because we are "better" than animals.

- You believe that homosexuality (despite numerous cases of being found in nature) is not natural, and is a part of the devolution of humanity.

- You do not wish "to go with" the Theory of Evolution, which would mean you do not believe in natural selection.

These three beliefs cannot co-exist in a coherent singular argument. You know that right? Forget the complete lack of proof outside of anecdotal evidences and "because I said so." You cannot logically have all 3 conclusions. Two of them, yes. Three of them, no.

Say we accept statement 3 as true, and the theory of evolution is full of it. You could still technically accept statement #1 under the pretense that we're psychologically different (though not necessarily better) and the comparisons shouldn't be made. However, if you tried to make that argument, you'd be shot down pretty quickly given that we have many of the same behavioral instincts as animals to begin with. This is not a good statement to hide behind so it would be better for statement 3 to be false if we want to accept statement #1. However if we accept statement 3 as true, the argument in statement 2 is completely irrelevant. In fact, it can't happen. It's impossible to devolve if we're not evolving in the first place.

So here's what you need to do. You need to get a cohesive, well-thought out response as to why you believe what you do. Get rid of all the "I feel it is wrong" stuff and tackle it from a objective viewpoint. Then get the data to back up your claims. Otherwise it doesn't matter how much you "feel" we're "brainwashed." The objective, logical, rational thinking person would have to admit that your side of the argument is the least compelling.

[Colonel Sanders]

Haha alright now. There is a HUGE ass difference between evolution, as in evolving from single-celled organisms and Evolution (you can't make the "E" long in type now can ya). I would expect someone reading that would be able to figure out that distinction, unless they didn't know.

[Pirate Hooker with Monkey]

Anyway KAF, you'll probably get stabbed to death one day by an overweight homosexual, simply for being a cripple. I believe they call that Karma.

OMG...I know this was a few pages back, but BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!:rofl mao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

And on a serious note....

I've bolded the problem for you.

Your arguments have been reduced to "I'm right because I think I'm right." .

Spot on.

It's been the same argument from him (and others) for ages. When faced with facts or interpretations that don't fit neatly into their self-created schema, they flail around miserably until all they have left to stand on is the assertion that they are right, because they think they are.

[Colonel Sanders]

I believe they call the people who believe in karma superstitious pompous assholes :roll:

[TJ60]

Damn it I've been looking in the bible for 4 hours for where it says we should beat the shit out of gays. Christianity gets all the blame for homophobic episodes. The greeks were having sex with little boys but it's all the christians fault for making it a sin.

[peddle07]

KAF, I for one, would love to bow down to your superior knowledge. I'm sure you've been education to the highest degree in all subject areas, such as biology, medicine, logic, ethics, psychiatry, among other areas of profession. I too hope that one day we wipe clean the tainted parts of the human race, and become one, perfect group of people. I don't understand why all these people are ok with someone being homosexual, when it affects their lives personally none. Down with the retards, lets exterminate them. I mean, they are useless to society, and it was their parents fault for bringing the tainted bloodline into the world. Being an expert on everything imaginable, you would obviously know how painful the life of someone 'retarded' would be, even though people may question your superior knowledge and say "how do we know they are living in pain, they could be some of the happiest people in the world?". People should not question this, nor should people question your strength. I don't blame you for showing your amazing strength of not being phased by the passing of a loved one, emotion is for the gays and retards, the weak. Please keep posting and maybe one day you can write a book and start a fan club. I would love to be the president.

[Drunken Monk]

Damn it I've been looking in the bible for 4 hours for where it says we should beat the shit out of gays. Christianity gets all the blame for homophobic episodes. The greeks were having sex with little boys but it's all the christians fault for making it a sin.

Oh there was some kinky butt secks going on back in Greeko-Roman times. Interestingly enough, Christianity isn't the religion that reprimands homosexuality the most..nope, that honour belongs to Islam. Nowadays the topical debates seem to be regarding Islam and the geo-political interpretation of its ideals. Christianity really has taken a back seat as far as being demonised as an institutionalised religion is concerned. But i think its interesting that people automatically assume when i say that "religion" teaches us to be intolerant of homosexuals, that the "religion" being mentioned is Christianity. If nothing else, this thread has been an absolute day at the beach for a sociology/literature student like me. But its also made me see the existence of compassion in a lot of people, and that's very heartening. Barring the borderline madness of KAF, i've actually thoroughly appreciated the posts put on this topic so far.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Haha alright now. There is a HUGE ass difference between evolution, as in evolving from single-celled organisms and Evolution (you can't make the "E" long in type now can ya). I would expect someone reading that would be able to figure out that distinction, unless they didn't know.

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm pretty certain that at this point you're just trolling the thread just for responses. But hey, time to actually do what you're supposed to do in these threads. Show us proof. Seriously, if it's so obvious that everyone that reads it would know there's a distinct difference (other than capitalization and the fact it was bolded,) this should be a piece of cake. Then you can take those same research skills and apply it toward proving all the rest of the nonsense you've been brainwashed into believing.

[Jacx]

i don't know if i can hold it in...show me the proof damn it!

[Colonel Sanders]

What the fuck are you talking about KS? Show you the proof between the theory of evolution and the evolution of society and simple genes? God damn

[Kloaked Spirit]

What the fuck are you talking about KS? Show you the proof between the theory of evolution and the evolution of society and simple genes? God damn

Yes, please explain to me how you can prove that there is a difference between "the theory of evolution" and this "evolution of simple genes." Please, this should be highly interesting. Use sources too, because it'll be the first time you've managed to make a random statement and then had something to back it up.

Plus, you're also making a secondary statement that while an organism cannot adapt/change and gain/lose traits depending on its environment (you know, the entire theory of evolution to begin with,) that we can somehow develop a culture that is constantly changing around us and then adapting to the ever shifting nature of the world (your "evolution of society".) I must say, my mind is blown with this sort of thesis, and I'm not even on drugs.

[Colonel Sanders]

Uh that shouldn't need an explanation or "sources" cause there is a well known difference between the two. The Natural Selection part of Evolution, which can be referred to as Evolution....the genetic successiveness of the generations. And the other completely idiotic part of the theory where everything came from single celled organisms and evolved in "stages" but miraculously, like everything our tiny brains can conjure, fails to tell us how they got there in the first place.

Maybe you are putting too much thought into trying to analyze my posts or something but yer going way the fuck off topic and not even making any sense now.

[Smash Bros]

Uh that shouldn't need an explanation or "sources" cause there is a well known difference between the two. The Natural Selection part of Evolution, which can be referred to as Evolution....the genetic successiveness of the generations. And the other completely idiotic part of the theory where everything came from single celled organisms and evolved in "stages" but miraculously, like everything our tiny brains can conjure, fails to tell us how they got there in the first place.

Maybe you are putting too much thought into trying to analyze my posts or something but yer going way the fuck off topic and not even making any sense now.

ok the first bolded part.

if there is natural selection that would mean that nature is killing off of teh weak right?? which means that teh genes them become stronger??

ok so based on the genes becoming stronger based on the fact that the weak are killed then there would be no more weak would there as they were all killed?? UNLESS nature and the predators evolve around the certain species to be able to adapt to the lack of food as teh prey has lost all the weak.

now to prove it all wrong the natural weak are the young and the old. if the young are killed because they are weak then there would be no old. but at the same time there would only be a young race as they are all killed.


annnnd to make it all better here is this part.

if the humans have evolved since 2000 years ago then that would mean that we have evolved. since the language has changed and they have actually found remains of early humans which are a different bone structure from the current species of human.



and to back it all up to the part where you said

Why should people go along with the theory of evolution and accept it as fact when it clearly isn't? Why should we go along with you and the article you always post about homosexuality as if it proves that it is natural and okay when it clearly does not?

Which is why I've chosen to fall back on what every fiber of my being tells me. That homosexuality is wrong (tell me why isn't the majority of the world bi-sexual, and also why does mostly everyone find it disgusting in some way, food for thought?). The same thing that also tells me to be Agnostic and never accept any theory trying to explain our origins because I as a strong-willed/minded individual knows that my limited knowledge and place in this universe will never be able to know in my lifetime, why spend the time thinking about it.

for the bolded part here.

most of the human race is either bi-sexual or have had fantasies about someone of the same sex.

now most females these days have made out/hooked up what ever you want to call it with another female. as they have had a sexual encounter with another female then that would make them bi sexual. and seeing as approx 50% of teh human race is female that would make more then 50% of the human population either bi-sexual or gay.

and just so you can realise this take a look at this article

http://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX5017-BisexualIdentity.htm

[Drunken Monk]

most of the human race is either bi-sexual or have had fantasies about someone of the same sex.

It's like when u're a little kid and u haven't fallen victim to socialisation yet and people haven't ingrained homophobia into ur system. At that point, guys dont have a problem hugging other guys or even kissing them on the cheek or being very physically intimate with them, for the very reason that they dont know what homophobia is. If they did that when they were 15, they'd be called "faggot" faster than u can realise what's going on.

Girls are even more closer than guys when they're young! and for girls, i've known of instances where it passes into pre, and sometimes even post-puberty. Friend i knew made out with her girl friend just to see what a kiss felt like when she was 11.

For me, this is the final bit that destroys any and all of KAF's ramblings. If the human race was genetically, psychologically, physically or biologically pre-disposed to homophobia or rejection of homosexuality, that does not explain why children, young teenagers or even grown up girls and boys, behave how they do with members of the same sex.

Homophobia is a product of socialisation i.e. brainwashing, constant reprimand and intolerant behaviour as well as social modelling (where a person forms their own views based on the views of another). It is NOT unnatural to be gay. KAF your argument has now been totally defeated. Go home, suck on an iced lolly and shut the fuck up. I'm tired of your crap. If u made sense, fair enough, but you don't.

[Furyous]

*edited

[Kloaked Spirit]

Uh that shouldn't need an explanation or "sources" cause there is a well known difference between the two. The Natural Selection part of Evolution, which can be referred to as Evolution....the genetic successiveness of the generations. And the other completely idiotic part of the theory where everything came from single celled organisms and evolved in "stages" but miraculously, like everything our tiny brains can conjure, fails to tell us how they got there in the first place.

Maybe you are putting too much thought into trying to analyze my posts or something but yer going way the fuck off topic and not even making any sense now.

No, I'm not putting any thought into this beyond the obvious. It's just ever so much fun to watch you attempt to backpedal and strongarm your way to "making sense." Then it's also fun watching you fail miserably at doing so.

But now I get it. You're a creationist (we all came at the same time, otherwise we'd have to come from somewhere and that's that evil evolution again) except you believe in natural selection. However, the natural selection can only be man made by society weeding out the human characteristics that are "inferior" or not "normal." Hence your earlier statement that you'd kill a gay just as easily and nonchalant as a child molester. You also believe this just because you believe it and have little to no scientific data or studies to back up any of it. You also believe that we're all brainwashed if we don't accept your saying, despite the evidence we have to not believe you.

Are you sure you haven't been talking to men in white robes with white pointy hats? This sure sounds like a lot of the brainwashed trite that they use to convince others that they're right.

Random point:
Oh, and if someone sees asshole, please direct him to this thread. He still needs to tell me if he really is cheerleading the near death of the OP's friend because of his sexuality, or if he was taking the piss. I have to determine whether or not I need to undelete the original post he was talking about.

[Colonel Sanders]

You are both wrong. Whatever wikipedia or whoever may say Natural Selection is not one sided as you both seem to suggest. It's not so narrow as to suggest that natural selection only weeds out the week. It simply means the successiveness of the generations. Meaning it can go either way, the strong minded can give way to other strong minded just the same as weak minded and brainwashed fools can give way to the same.....there are now more weak minded now because of all the outside influence people are exposed to these days.

And to say I am a creationist is laughable at best KS. That shows how limited your thinking is on that subject and your inability to think on a possible scale more grander that the capabilities of the human mind to comprehend.

[the squid of despair]

weak minded and brainwashed fools can give way to the same.....there are now more weak minded now because of all the outside influence people are exposed to these days.

And to say I am a creationist is laughable at best KS. That shows how limited your thinking is on that subject and your inability to think on a possible scale more grander that the capabilities of the human mind to comprehend.

I've waited 10 pages to post in this mess. To keep things on point here, who are the weak mided brainwashed fools? Do you have any examples? Feel free to call out people if you like, unless you're just speaking of "humans" in general.

Question 2. I am very interested in what you read about, please post some links. When you say, "That shows how limited your thinking is on that subject and your inability to think on a possible scale more grander that the capabilities of the human mind to comprehend", are you implying that something potentialy alien created us? Is this the matrix? I'm being completely serious too here. I may just go and make another SD thread, just for you. Just so that you can explain your beliefs on shit like this (forgive my French). I have actually become facinated with you, and I want to hear it all. I guess this isn't really question 2 any more, more of a babble.

But seriously, let's hear some of the literature that you read, titles, authors, book of mormon?

[Smash Bros]

You are both wrong. Whatever wikipedia or whoever may say Natural Selection is not one sided as you both seem to suggest. It's not so narrow as to suggest that natural selection only weeds out the week. It simply means the successiveness of the generations. Meaning it can go either way, the strong minded can give way to other strong minded just the same as weak minded and brainwashed fools can give way to the same.....there are now more weak minded now because of all the outside influence people are exposed to these days.

And to say I am a creationist is laughable at best KS. That shows how limited your thinking is on that subject and your inability to think on a possible scale more grander that the capabilities of the human mind to comprehend.

does that mean you are not human??

seeing as if you are human then your mind also would not be able to comprehend what it is that you are on about.

and squid ill do it for you.

[Colonel Sanders]

No it simply means that I know what I am and what we as a species are capable of. Explaining how something came from nothing is not one of them.

Now I have my own personal theories sure but they don't belong here. Even when I do think up my own theories I know that it is purely futile and more for entertainment/boredoms sake.

What I hate is how humans and these so-called "scientists", as if they are worthy of the name, think up things like Evolution or even God and try to push their agenda and teach it as if it is plausible or real...when it is all imaginative. No matter what theory the community comes up with, be it evolution, big bang, or something else, they all fail to explain the simple question of how something comes from nothing.

And then when the subject comes up in debates somehow people like to discuss it on a fact basis to try to use it to prove people wrong or some shit....so incredibly stupid I can't help but laugh.

[Smash Bros]

so what your saying is that we came from nothing yet you think it is stupid how people came from nothing??

if we came from something then what is it??

and when 2 molocules collide they can create other molocules.

how they came about i dont know. but how did anything came about??

[Colonel Sanders]

uhhhhaha what? Maybe you need to reread or something. I said I don't know, like all of us don't know. So developing theories that in the end prove nothing and never answer the fundamental question of how something comes from nothing gets us nowhere so using those theories as facts in a debate is dumb.

It's beyond us technologically to understand, a VERY VERY far beyond us technologically, or it is beyond us as a species/our reality that we live in. I think it is the latter because the human brain is not meant to be able to comprehend nothingness. Sure you can imagine black and nothing happening..but even then black is indeed something. It's hard to wrap yer mind around but once you understand you realize it is impossible for the mind to grasp just what nothing is. Hence is half the reason humans created the vaunted after-life theories such as reincarnation.

[Smash Bros]

so what your saying is that you believe that the human mind can not comprehend what nothingness is?? based on what??


and to put it another way are you saying that we cannot comprehend it like some species of animals cannot comprehend their own mortality or even future??

[Drunken Monk]

so what your saying is that we came from nothing yet you think it is stupid how people came from nothing??

if we came from something then what is it??

and when 2 molocules collide they can create other molocules.

how they came about i dont know. but how did anything came about??

Smash, even i didn't get that one haha. Do you mind making it a bit clearer please? :hidey:

[Mikey:)]

That shows how limited your thinking is on that subject and your inability to think on a possible scale more grander that the capabilities of the human mind to comprehend.

So you can think on a scale that is outside of the capabilities of the human mind?

[Smash Bros]

Smash, even i didn't get that one haha. Do you mind making it a bit clearer please? :hidey:

which part lol??

what i said was(hopefully clearer)

that he stated that he thinks it is stupid when people believe in theorys like evolution, big bang etc etc that states that we came from nothing (well we came from something but that something what did it come from??) yet he believes that we came from nothign.

and well the other bits i hope are understandable :P

[Drunken Monk]

that he stated that he thinks it is stupid when people believe in theorys like evolution, big bang etc etc that states that we came from nothing (well we came from something but that something what did it come from??) yet he believes that we came from nothign.

Yeah I was able to put the pieces together from that one. Its strane how KAF is so determined to persist with his views despite the fact that everyone on this thread (well almost) seems to disagree with him. Like I said before, this thread reduces me to being a kid in a candy shop cause it has AMAZING implications from a sociological point of view.

What strikes me as odd KAF is the fact that you haven't been able to pursue a coherent and lucid argument, yet you insist on continuing to argue your point. You've contradicted yourself infinite times, have been defeated logically (and with proof might I add), many times as well. Does this topic seem so important to you that you MUST continue trying to make us conform to your views..or is it an ego thing?

[Todd]

the average person these days then becomes brainwashed by that, therefore not thinking for themselves and just adapting what The Man has deemed to be right...

Kind of like the issue i brought up about "i love blow", which in that case your response was "if people do things because they're told it's right/ok they deserve to die"... you are oozing contradictory KAF and trip yourself up in every reply you make, but then you just seen to keep making your 'strong opinions' up as you go along...

Also, you claim that homosexuality/disabled people etc etc have no place in this world, and the world would be a better place without them... Yet the only thing really that ruins this world is hate and anger, which coincidently, you're full of. Sorry but im also starting to think you must be a social outcast if it's such a major issue to you who people go to bed with... Take my buddy Oliver here

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9646/gatelu1oe3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


great lad, can party with the best of em', drink with the best of em', always there to help you out... a pretty ace mate to have around, so please do break it down to me why i should care who he goes to bed with...? You need real life experience mate, not just recycled gay arguments and what you think are the "facts" that you read on the internet. Oh and please, don't give me the "i have a great life" rant as you quite blatanty don't.
You can keep what you believe to be your "strong mind" i'll keep my brainwashed mind, im already more successful at 18 than you'll ever hope be with your attitude. So remember, don't let all these stupid people brainwash you... the guy who's a self proclaimed lonley bum knows best... Mabe one day you'll join the real world KAF...

[Drunken Monk]

Kind of like the issue i brought up about "i love blow", which in that case your response was "if people do things because they're told it's right/ok they deserve to die"... you are oozing contradictory KAF and trip yourself up in every reply you make, but then you just seen to keep making your 'strong opinions' up as you go along...

Also, you claim that homosexuality/disabled people etc etc have no place in this world, and the world would be a better place without them... Yet the only thing really that ruins this world is hate and anger, which coincidently, you're full of. Sorry but im also starting to think you must be a social outcast if it's such a major issue to you who people go to bed with... Take my buddy Oliver here great lad, can party with the best of em', drink with the best of em', always there to help you out... a pretty ace mate to have around, so please do break it down to me why i should care who he goes to bed with...? You need real life experience mate, not just recycled gay arguments and what you think are the "facts" that you read on the internet. Oh and please, don't give me the "i have a great life" rant as you quite blatanty don't.
You can keep what you believe to be your "strong mind" i'll keep my brainwashed mind, im already more successful at 18 than you'll ever hope be with your attitude. So remember, don't let all these stupid people brainwash you... the guy who's a self proclaimed lonley bum knows best... Mabe one day you'll join the real world KAF...

*Hi-fucking-five mate!* Nice one Todd. You've pretty much got it spot on as far as figuring out KAF is concerned, but then again, i think we all have really. Do yourself a massive favour KAF, just don't share your opinions here anymore cause I don't think they're very welcome here. Also you completely missed the whole point of the thread in the first place.

There's still some hope for you though. De-fragment all your ideals and beliefs and start questioning them. Question everything you believe in over and over again till you think you have it figured out. Then start from scratch and repeat. That's the only way you'll ever have an opinion that counts..if you're constantly questioning your own faith in those opinions and their validity.

EDIT : Removed the pic Todd..nothing else.

[Kloaked Spirit]

*Hi-fucking-five mate!* Nice one Todd. You've pretty much got it spot on as far as figuring out KAF is concerned, but then again, i think we all have really. Do yourself a massive favour KAF, just don't share your opinions here anymore cause I don't think they're very welcome here. Also you completely missed the whole point of the thread in the first place.


It's not him sharing the opinions that are the problem. Depending on upbringing, people are just going to have different ideas. We should allow people the ability to express them. However, it's the constant lack of any substance and complete contradiction that fouls him up. Seriously, has he even brought out one piece of evidence from anything that proves his thoughts about homosexuals? At least then we could start to make a debate and get back to the original topic. Or are we still at the "I believe they're evil because I believe they're evil" school of thought he said earlier? If that's the case, then the debate is really done and we're back to the ironic point that those that make the statement are people that are brainwashed.

What about where humans come from? If you're not a creationist (we all didn't just appear thanks to a superior being) and don't like the theory of evolution (didn't evolve from anything) then what could we be left with? Let's assume that it's something so advanced that the human mind cannot comprehend it just like KAF claims. Then where does he get the right to even start with what is acceptable in humanity? How would he know anything about what is right or wrong, if our own creation and what we're meant to be is far beyond our human thought? Why would any connection to our behavior and animal behavior be invalid? It's not like you have the Rosetta Stone of human creation and aren't sharing the knowledge with the rest of us.

Last bit of curiosity, going back to page one:

I would no more hesitate or flinch killing a child molester than I would a gay.

So what is the likelihood of you ever doing this, and why? I mean that's a pretty bold statement to make, especially coming from someone who has probably met a gay person (even if you didn't know it, those elusive gays.) Depending on your answer we may need to create a forum pool betting on when you go to jail for the rest of your life.

[odd th0mas]

fags(slang) are just a "fetish" that was allowed to go mainstream!

there are fetishes for everything. some people like feet, some like farm animals, some like s & m, etc. well fags are boys/men who have fetishes for other boys/men. for every sexual deviancy, abberant behavior there is a fetish! :glare:

[Drunken Monk]

It's not him sharing the opinions that are the problem. Depending on upbringing, people are just going to have different ideas. We should allow people the ability to express them. However, it's the constant lack of any substance and complete contradiction that fouls him up. Seriously, has he even brought out one piece of evidence from anything that proves his thoughts about homosexuals? At least then we could start to make a debate and get back to the original topic. Or are we still at the "I believe they're evil because I believe they're evil" school of thought he said earlier? If that's the case, then the debate is really done and we're back to the ironic point that those that make the statement are people that are brainwashed.

That's what i meant KS. His opinions don't have any basis. That's the only reason I think he's wasting a lot of people's time by posting. Like I've always maintained, if he came up with evidence or at the very least was consistent in what he said, it would not only be in keeping with the original idea of the thread, but would provide for a rivetting debate and I'd be happy to participate. But he hasn't really done that and that's why I think enough is enough as far as his "ideals" are concerned.

P.S. I think you've made some of the best points in this thread :) Pleased to meet you!

[Colonel Sanders]

The evidence (as I have said many times) is that we aren't born bi-sexual and all of us are only born with one conjoining sexual organ meant for reproducing with the other sex. No in between there. Quite straight forward and that is all the proof I need to back up my stance, it's sad that other people cannot see this.

It's funny also Konser that you would say you would be more successful and have a better life than me just because you have different opinions than mine. Real fucking mature and thought out there. As I have said I don't go around and say to everyone I meet that I hate gays and that if yer one one of them go to hell... I am now because this is a thread strictly about that. Your arguments are dumb as well, rapists can be just like normal people too and have tons of friends...just like anyone with a dark secret can.

[Kat]

Quite straight forward and that is all the proof I need to back up my stance, it's sad that other people cannot see this.


Kaf, calling other people 'sad' for not agreeing with your point of view is no way to conduct a debate; it's rude and extremely unconstructive. You continually make antagonistic statements like this, which would be irritating even if your argument had any logic or continuity, which it doesn't. I don't know whether your habit of saying things like this stems from a lack of ability to articulate yourself or is a deliberate attempt to annoy people into giving you attention, but I think it would make the debate of much higher quality if you could refrain from it.

I've argued the general points in this thread before and while I don't think there's anything wrong in going over old ground in general, in your particular case it just seems to be going round and round in circles in thread after thread. No disrespect to the people arguing in here; I admire your persistence, but I think it's getting to the point where continually replying to kaf on these points is serving only to legitimise him, in his own mind at least, at the expense of interesting discussion.

[Drunken Monk]

Kaf, calling other people 'sad' for not agreeing with your point of view is no way to conduct a debate; it's rude and extremely unconstructive. You continually make antagonistic statements like this, which would be irritating even if your argument had any logic or continuity, which it doesn't. I don't know whether your habit of saying things like this stems from a lack of ability to articulate yourself or is a deliberate attempt to annoy people into giving you attention, but I think it would make the debate of much higher quality if you could refrain from it.

I've argued the general points in this thread before and while I don't think there's anything wrong in going over old ground in general, in your particular case it just seems to be going round and round in circles in thread after thread. No disrespect to the people arguing in here; I admire your persistence, but I think it's getting to the point where continually replying to kaf on these points is serving only to legitimise him, in his own mind at least, at the expense of interesting discussion.

Should we just carry on without taking KAF's point of view into consideration then? Let's vote on it or something, if everyone is okay with that..

[peddle07]

please don't feed the troll

[Colonel Sanders]

If what I said is antagonistic then something is seriously wrong with peoples perception of things. If I think it's sad people can't acknowledge what proof I've laid out without them themselves giving anything to combat (other than comparing us to animals.lol) then yeah I think I could say something along the lines of "sad". Not like I told people they were a dumb bitch for disagreeing with me; clearly there are intelligent people in this thread, KS, Smash etc....and they have all my respect in that area, I just believe (imo) that it is mis founded.

[Smash Bros]

The evidence (as I have said many times) is that we aren't born bi-sexual and all of us are only born with one conjoining sexual organ meant for reproducing with the other sex. No in between there. Quite straight forward and that is all the proof I need to back up my stance, it's sad that other people cannot see this.

what about hamapradites(sp)??? they are real and very rare (less then 100 documented legite cases)they are born with both sex organs?? does that mean that they are allowed to be gay??

and also what about the people who are man trapped in womans body or vice versa?? when they get the op for the sex change does that mean they have to be gay based on the fact that they were born with different sexual orgins that they have later in life??

[Colonel Sanders]

Well Smash I have to say why are you bringing those two up? You are increasingly starting to sound like Quaker here. Why would bring up a genetic defect? It's like saying down syndrome with the extra chromosome is really what normal people are because they are quite a bit more smart than the average human.

And again the second point....man trapped in womans body? rofl once again I am not talking about nut jobs or genetic defects here.

[odd th0mas]

what about hamapradites(sp)??? they are real and very rare (less then 100 documented legite cases)they are born with both sex organs??

them people can just go fuck themselves!


i can not believe we are made to tollerate homosexual behavior...in any society! hell, it was only 40 years ago that left-handed people threatened society SO MUCH, that they were made to abandon their dominant hand and learn to be a righty! now look at what society tollerates...and even calls normal behavior! UNFREAKIN' BELIEVABLE!

[Smash Bros]

Well Smash I have to say why are you bringing those two up? You are increasingly starting to sound like Quaker here. Why would bring up a genetic defect? It's like saying down syndrome with the extra chromosome is really what normal people are because they are quite a bit more smart than the average human.

And again the second point....man trapped in womans body? rofl once again I am not talking about nut jobs or genetic defects here.

i bring those 2 up because they are born like that. which you said we are not all born bi-sexual or we would have both sexual organs. those people are. the sex change are not always nut jobs either.some seriously are just trapped in the wrong genders body.

and if i sound like quaker maybe that means that you cant actually debate properly

[bzzt]

I would no more hesitate or flinch killing a child molester than I would a gay.

just because the world is full of people you disagree with is no reason to kill them and if you kill anybody and get away with it, that makes you a killer. kill more than once and get away with it and you are a serial killer.

unless you do it in self defense it's totally against the law and if you're convicted of killing anyone it might land you in a jail cell with a child molester.

[Colonel Sanders]

That doesn't change the fact that Hermaphrodites is in fact a genetic disorder, this has been proven. Once again because of the simple reason that it is a known genetic disorder means it cannot be brought to the table for debate on this topic.

And yes all the sex change people are nut jobs, hell have you ever met one? I have....the most mentally challenged person I've ever met. She had about every disorder in the book. OCD, ADD, BI-Polar, ...you name it she pretty much had it. I also watched an HBO special on those sex change people as well a few years back and me and my friend couldn't help but laugh and be disgusted at the same time, trust me they are all nut jobs.

[Smash Bros]

you meet 1. and yet you judge the whole lot of them??

that sounds like being brainwashed to me.

same as gays. you said earlier that you wont hesitate to kill one yet just before you said you dont go around sprouting your opinions on people in RL. to me that is a contradiction as you will kill them yet wont tell them you hate them :S

[Colonel Sanders]

Yeah I would judge all of em because it's just not the personal experience I have seen of em. If there is anything people hate more than rapists or some such it's sex change/transvestites. I can tell ya right now that I know many people who are friends/get along fine with gays but will absolutely look down upon with disgust and anger at a sex change/transvestite individual.

And yeah I said WOULD...not do. I'm pretty sure you'd have seen me on the news by now if I went up to every gay I knew and blew there brains out. Since I'm not too keen on dying just yet I simply stay away from them and be fine as I am in with group of friends.

[Todd]

If what I said is antagonistic then something is seriously wrong with peoples perception of things. If I think it's sad people can't acknowledge what proof I've laid out without them themselves giving anything to combat (other than comparing us to animals.lol) then yeah I think I could say something along the lines of "sad". Not like I told people they were a dumb bitch for disagreeing with me; clearly there are intelligent people in this thread, KS, Smash etc....and they have all my respect in that area, I just believe (imo) that it is mis founded.

lol, touched a nerve on my earlier post eh KAF? :)

again, you divert answering any of the questions i asked... and just make a reply talking random shite, and trying to defend your life, interesting eh...

Just one other thing i thinks really funny about this kid is how he claims to have a strong mind/stance on things, but he's not really sure what they are seen as they change in each post to create a defence :S you're a complete joke mate lol

Everything you say you "stand" for doesn't excist, you're just a badly brainwashed, deluded boy. As i said KAF, mabe some day...

Oh and yeah they is intelligent people in this thread, but you arn't one of em' (Y)

[Colonel Sanders]

What questions did you ask? If you asked any that hadn't already been discussed I would have answered them.

1. Never have changed stances
2. Made it quite clear what my defense is
3. It exists because not everyone has been deluded like you

So once again people make up things like I am "flip-flopping" on the subject and changing stances on every post when I haven't...please, please point out to me where I said "oops was wrong, I think gays are fine and apart of human nature"...really Konser, please point it out to me. The joke is on you fucker.

You people make me sick. Instead of having a debate people like you turn it into a bash fest and make up lies about people. The problem with the world isn't opinions and the hate they may contain. It's jackasses like you. Yeah I know yer kind....the kinda fucker in RL who gives everybody that isn't in their group a hard time and makes cruel jokes because they think it makes em look like a hardass and this guy who doesn't take shit. Ha you even fit the profile with yer face alone. If you think being gay is so natural and apart of humanity why don't ya go give yer best friend a blow job to show your affection, that goes for all you idiots who think that. Next time you have something to say in SD don't come into a thread half way and call people liars because it makes you look like a fucking cunt.

[Colonel Sanders]

My final thoughts on the thread. Because I'm pretty much done with it, 13 pages is enough.

If ya think being gay/bi-sexual is a natural thing for humans think about this:

1. Would you give yer best friend of 20 years a blow job?

2. Would you go gay and live the lifestyle tomorrow and not have any second thoughts, after all, it's natural right?...it would be just like breathing.

3. If everyone was supposed to be bi-sexual we would not be surviving as a species and doing as well as we are now, that says a lot alone.

4. Female, Male gender. Both have reproductive/sex organs. They both just happen to be designed for conjoining and making babies. If we were meant to be a bi-sexual race don't ya think just a weeeeee bit that we would be designed different? Either we were all one gender and reproduce asexually or have organs for same sex relations while still being capable of creating offspring.

5. In every single test done on infants and toddlers. Every single one of them responded positively to their respectful opposite gender in tests that would place the "perfect" pictured (beauty wise) female on one side of the room, and male on the other side for 2 minutes. All of them on average would spend 45 or more seconds looking at their opposite genders face more. This says a lot in terms of natural attraction to the opposite gender due to the fact that this was done thousands of times using numerous faces of equal beauty (symmetry)....if the tests were flawed somehow you would think that at least a few would have shown different results...there weren't any.

6. Only 8% of the worlds population is gay/bi (same thing in my book). Why? You would think that if it is a naturally occurring thing and something yer "born" with this figure would be much higher. It isn't. It isn't because it's from the ever increasing corruption of modern society. I don't want to get religious here but to be honest the most sinful of governments and races in history had an epidemic of homosexuality. Back then it was referred to as sin, I call it corruption simply because I am not religious. The United States has the most gay people by far (population discrepancies figured), more than China, Brazil, Japan, Russia, France, Britain, any country at all....is it a coincidence that the U.S. these days just happens to be the most corrupt nation on earth?

To me it seems so obvious, why it is not for others I may never fully understand. Is it because of upbringing? Politically correct brainwashing...social influence. Whatever, until scientists present me with evidence that directly conflicts with my view that homosexuality is not a choice, and in fact natural due to some brain mechanism, then I will continue to rely on the obviousness of what I have in front of me...my body.

[Todd]

What questions did you ask? If you asked any that hadn't already been discussed I would have answered them.

1. Never have changed stances
2. Made it quite clear what my defense is
3. It exists because not everyone has been deluded like you

So once again people make up things like I am "flip-flopping" on the subject and changing stances on every post when I haven't...please, please point out to me where I said "oops was wrong, I think gays are fine and apart of human nature"...really Konser, please point it out to me. The joke is on you fucker.

You people make me sick. Instead of having a debate people like you turn it into a bash fest and make up lies about people. The problem with the world isn't opinions and the hate they may contain. It's jackasses like you. Yeah I know yer kind....the kinda fucker in RL who gives everybody that isn't in their group a hard time and makes cruel jokes because they think it makes em look like a hardass and this guy who doesn't take shit. Ha you even fit the profile with yer face alone. If you think being gay is so natural and apart of humanity why don't ya go give yer best friend a blow job to show your affection, that goes for all you idiots who think that. Next time you have something to say in SD don't come into a thread half way and call people liars because it makes you look like a fucking cunt.

ooh ooh i tickled the nerve again eh KAF? :)

lol, so basically your calling me a bully eh? Listen kid having a backbone and being confident, wealthy and liked outside the internet doesn't make me a bully, it makes me a strong minded successful person. Something you can only wish to be as you have your oh so exciting "internet debates". My face? stud aint i... (H)

Ok let me spell out a couple of simple contradiction you've made :)

Contradiction:

so many people are still taught that homosexuality is wrong

It may be a loosing battle because so many of us, including you, have been brainwashed

It's there in black and white mate... :grin:

Yeah I know yer kind....the kinda fucker in RL who gives everybody that isn't in their group a hard time


Now, seen how for over 12 pages you've been saying how gays don't deserve to live and should be stabbed in the heart because they don't like sleeping with the same people as you, that there buddy is a contradiction, full stop... If you can't see that then we mays well call it a day.

KAF to be honest i have no idea why im even talking to you about this like you matter, why would any homosexuals or anyone with a real life care what a waster like you thinks about them? You have no voice in the world boy, and it will slowly forget about you and your silly little 'opinions'.

And just to clarify

Yeah I know yer kind....the kinda fucker in RL who gives everybody that isn't in their group a hard time

KAF im actually one of the most open minded, friendly people you could ever hope to meet...hence my open views on homosexuality and many other things... lol? i remember making an effort a month or so back to get chatting to you but you turned out like this...

EDIT: the question i asked!

Q: my buddy Oliver here...

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9646/gatelu1oe3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


great lad, can party with the best of em', drink with the best of em', always there to help you out... a pretty ace mate to have around, so please do break it down to me why i should care who he goes to bed with...?

A:....

[Colonel Sanders]

I guess you don't?

But some people actually care about how humanity is evolving. I think it is for the worse...I believe homosexuality is apart of that "worse". Now I know I take a stronger stand on these things, that may be a curse or a gift I don't know. A lot of people like you don't give a shit...I don't know what to say other than I do.

And yeh mate you reeealy do have an open mind on the topic. Thats why you came into this thread all pissy and basically calling me a liar and saying "You will never be successful because you have a different opinion than me". I wouldn't want to talk with you one on one anyways you being the asshole that would say something so absurd as that anyways.

[Todd]

I guess you don't?

But some people actually care about how humanity is evolving. I think it is for the worse...I believe homosexuality is apart of that "worse". Now I know I take a stronger stand on these things, that may be a curse or a gift I don't know. A lot of people like you don't give a shit...I don't know what to say other than I do.

And yeh mate you reeealy do have an open mind on the topic. Thats why you came into this thread all pissy and basically calling me a liar and saying "You will never be successful because you have a different opinion than me". I wouldn't want to talk with you one on one anyways you being the asshole that would say something so absurd as that anyways.

haha, see? you have no real life experience, all you can do is say all the complete bollocks about "the evolving world"... listen, if you had a friend you wouldn't care who he slept with, simple.

again you've still failed to give me any half decent answer...

Contradiction:

you came into this thread all pissy and basically calling me a liar

i haven't got pissy or started calling any childish names what so ever, unlike you... so yes you are a liar...

It's jackasses like you...

Yeah I know yer kind....the kinda fucker...

go give yer best friend a blow job to show your affection....

etc etc....


KAF keep your views on homosexuality, like i said no body gives a toss what you think anyway... A personal stance of mine is weak minded boys who contemplate suicide because it's the easy way out deserve a good beating, must be a coincidence :P lol

:wave:

[Colonel Sanders]

Haha okay tell me what life experiences you have that make you so wise. I am eager to hear it.

And also I would disagree. It's just the opposite....if you had a friend you WOULD care who he slept with...be it gay or otherwise. If I found out tomorrow that my mate of 11 years went gay I would never talk to him again simple as that. And I know for an absolute fact that he would do the same to me.. I would expect no less, in fact I would expect him to put a bullet through my head....same thing goes if either of us was ever to go religious again.

I contemplated suicide because I know none of it matters and I'm not afraid to die. Can you say the same? The only reason I want to continue living in this fucked up world is so I can make my father proud as his only surviving and stable son, and because I don't want him to go through the pain of losing another son; hes lost his brother, cousin, and first born son all to suicide....I've seen what that does to him and I never ever want to see him in such agony again; even if I don't care and don't get affected by death and in my mind none of it matters I know it does to him, I am not about to be selfish to my own feelings.

[Todd]

Haha okay tell me what life experiences you have that make you so wise. I am eager to hear it.

Life experiences, no time... the facts (which you have a liking for) are im 18, have my own place, just bought myself a brand new car, brilliant paid job, while studying at college also for graphic design Masters degree, booming social life which you blatanty have zero, and soon to be engaged to the gorgious woman i love... plus i can down a pint in 4 seconds :D all acheived by myself at the tender age of 18 :).... please tell me your acheivements... not topping yourself?

(Why has this turned into me talking about myself? :S)

And also I would disagree. It's just the opposite....if you had a friend you WOULD care who he slept with...

My mate pictured up there is gay, and i don't care who he sleeps with, so you lied, again. :)

I contemplated suicide because I know none of it matters and I'm not afraid to die. Can you say the same?

No, i can't. My life does matter, can you say the same?

The only reason I want to continue living in this fucked up world is so I can make my father proud as his only surviving and stable son,

Stable? You're having yourself on again lol. Proud? and again...

and because I don't want him to go through the pain of losing another son; hes lost his brother, cousin, and first born son all to suicide....

So you come from a very weak minded family, you're just following suit...

I've seen what that does to him and I never ever want to see him in such agony again; even if I don't care and don't get affected by death and in my mind none of it matters I know it does to him, I am not about to be selfish to my own feelings.

anyway i'm not replying no further as this is turned from a 'debate' about homosexuality into a personal slanging match, which i don't agree with...

KAF on a serious note just think were your strong views/mind will get you... absolutley no were accept mabe A&E or jail. Fair enough if you have a strong mind, but use it in a creative way to help yourself... if you consider it a gift, use it properly. If you discover its a curse, change... cya KAF, and good luck, sincerely (Y)

[Calienta]

I think this was derailed into a straw man argument when KAF refused to post sources for his beliefs.

[Canadiana]

Sorry to hear about your friend Monk. Theres a reason I became good with a katana and other blades. Also a reason I strength train. To deal with people who try to beat me because of what I am. Last group of people to try to beat me down was beaten so badly that it wasn't funny. Course I had to throw the first hit though. Kicked one upside the head and dropped him, punched another in the jaw and dropped him. In 10 seconds 4-1 became 2-1 and they ran.

[Drunken Monk]

Sorry to hear about your friend Monk. Theres a reason I became good with a katana and other blades. Also a reason I strength train. To deal with people who try to beat me because of what I am. Last group of people to try to beat me down was beaten so badly that it wasn't funny. Course I had to throw the first hit though. Kicked one upside the head and dropped him, punched another in the jaw and dropped him. In 10 seconds 4-1 became 2-1 and they ran.

I can tell from the Mortal Kombat pic you have there mate haha. Good game. And Rach, yeah as far as KAF is concerned, it is a straw man argument. But I suppose it doesn't hurt to prove him wrong every now and again as well. Good stuff.

[Kat]

If what I said is antagonistic then something is seriously wrong with peoples perception of things. If I think it's sad people can't acknowledge what proof I've laid out without them themselves giving anything to combat (other than comparing us to animals.lol) then yeah I think I could say something along the lines of "sad".

Well maybe my perception is seriously wrong, but I frequently find your tone antagonistic and from the way many people respond to your posts, I'd judge that they do too. My problem here isn't with what you are saying (although I do have big problems with that, but I'm trying to restrain myself from getting drawn into it again), but with how you are saying it. The condescending tone of your comments on other posters and your refusal to quote or reference anything you post (even when you refer directly to trials that have been carried out, as I believe you did in a later post) leads to a stagnant, circular argument, rather than one that develops or evolves.


Not like I told people they were a dumb bitch for disagreeing with me; clearly there are intelligent people in this thread, KS, Smash etc....and they have all my respect in that area, I just believe (imo) that it is mis founded.

This sort of comment would go down much better. There's nothing wrong with telling people you think they are wrong. There's nothing wrong with telling people their argument is flawed (if you can logically show that it's true). However, saying that you are flabbergasted by people's staggering stupidity in failing to comprehend your obviously seamless and fundamentally correct argument (I paraphrase) is. Even if you disagree with me and think it's ok to do so, don't you agree that it just isn't helpful in this section?

Should we just carry on without taking KAF's point of view into consideration then? Let's vote on it or something, if everyone is okay with that..
Don't think that's going to happen; it's just too tempting to argue and too irritating too let it lie once you've started! I was maybe a bit harsh before anyway; I don't really think anyone should be shut out of serious discussion, it would be a shame.

please don't feed the troll
Hey! The troll favours barbeque beef flavour hula hoops :)

[Sir Brian]

Fuck man or women or both i dont care, good luck to ya. :)

Flaunt it in my face tho, exploit it or enforce it in any way then i wont hesitate to discriminate you, you dirty bastards.

[Drunken Monk]

Don't think that's going to happen; it's just too tempting to argue and too irritating too let it lie once you've started! I was maybe a bit harsh before anyway; I don't really think anyone should be shut out of serious discussion, it would be a shame.

Yeah I don't really want to shut out anyone either, it's just that the monotony of his argument and his unjustifiable claims are getting a bit tedious to read over and over again. KAF, come up with an argument that has a little more intellectual credibility please. We'd all love to contemplate your opinion if you just managed to present it a little better. I don't mean dress it up with fancy words or anything, I mean some sort of a logical approach. And please don't reply by saying "because men have penises and women have vaginas and it's a perfect fit!" We've all heard that one before...

PS Kat, like the "Goddess of fluff" bit :hehe:

[Smash Bros]

My final thoughts on the thread. Because I'm pretty much done with it, 13 pages is enough.

If ya think being gay/bi-sexual is a natural thing for humans think about this:

1. Would you give yer best friend of 20 years a blow job?

no but that is out of respect. just because we are friends does not mean that we indulge ourselfs in homosexual behaviours.

2. Would you go gay and live the lifestyle tomorrow and not have any second thoughts, after all, it's natural right?...it would be just like breathing.

if i found that i loved a man more then my partner then yes i would. and i would have no regrets.

3. If everyone was supposed to be bi-sexual we would not be surviving as a species and doing as well as we are now, that says a lot alone.

no your thinking of homo sexual there. bi sexual means you have sex with both. which means we would survive as both sex's would be having sex with each other. just they would be with same sex aswell.

4. Female, Male gender. Both have reproductive/sex organs. They both just happen to be designed for conjoining and making babies. If we were meant to be a bi-sexual race don't ya think just a weeeeee bit that we would be designed different? Either we were all one gender and reproduce asexually or have organs for same sex relations while still being capable of creating offspring.

5. In every single test done on infants and toddlers. Every single one of them responded positively to their respectful opposite gender in tests that would place the "perfect" pictured (beauty wise) female on one side of the room, and male on the other side for 2 minutes. All of them on average would spend 45 or more seconds looking at their opposite genders face more. This says a lot in terms of natural attraction to the opposite gender due to the fact that this was done thousands of times using numerous faces of equal beauty (symmetry)....if the tests were flawed somehow you would think that at least a few would have shown different results...there weren't any.

where is the evidence of this?? i would like a link to show me where in fact this test was done with results aswell.

6. Only 8% of the worlds population is gay/bi (same thing in my book). Why? You would think that if it is a naturally occurring thing and something yer "born" with this figure would be much higher. It isn't. It isn't because it's from the ever increasing corruption of modern society. I don't want to get religious here but to be honest the most sinful of governments and races in history had an epidemic of homosexuality. Back then it was referred to as sin, I call it corruption simply because I am not religious. The United States has the most gay people by far (population discrepancies figured), more than China, Brazil, Japan, Russia, France, Britain, any country at all....is it a coincidence that the U.S. these days just happens to be the most corrupt nation on earth?

same as before. where are links to prove this??

To me it seems so obvious, why it is not for others I may never fully understand. Is it because of upbringing? Politically correct brainwashing...social influence. Whatever, until scientists present me with evidence that directly conflicts with my view that homosexuality is not a choice, and in fact natural due to some brain mechanism, then I will continue to rely on the obviousness of what I have in front of me...my body.

what seems obvious to you obviously isnt obvious to others.

you are trying to get us to see your point and i honestly want to be able to yet you cant prove it and you also cant show us any prove(like i said above) about your points.

when you do that then people will start to listen more.

[Kloaked Spirit]

1. Would you give yer best friend of 20 years a blow job?

If I felt like it and they were ok with it, absolutely.

2. Would you go gay and live the lifestyle tomorrow and not have any second thoughts, after all, it's natural right?...it would be just like breathing.

If I found the right gay/bi man to have a homosexual relationship with, absolutely.

3. If everyone was supposed to be bi-sexual we would not be surviving as a species and doing as well as we are now, that says a lot alone.

Bisexuality has been historically documented in every major civilization of humanity. Also there hasn't been any instance (save for biblical stories) where bi/homosexuality was the root cause of the destruction of a civilization. If you happen to know of a civilization that was destroyed as a direct result of homosexuality or bisexuality, please go ahead and link it here. I'll be more than interested to take a look at it.

4. Female, Male gender. Both have reproductive/sex organs. They both just happen to be designed for conjoining and making babies. If we were meant to be a bi-sexual race don't ya think just a weeeeee bit that we would be designed different? Either we were all one gender and reproduce asexually or have organs for same sex relations while still being capable of creating offspring.

Not necessarily. Hell, we have people sexist enough to think that all women are good for is reproduction anyway. As stated before it used to be common procedure for men to grow up sleeping with other men before they finally chose a wife. Plus there's plenty of evidence to show that women fooled around with each other (lesbianism isn't new on the scene, even in the world of pornography.) This would definitely fall in line with an openly bisexual lifestyle.

5. In every single test done on infants and toddlers. Every single one of them responded positively to their respectful opposite gender in tests that would place the "perfect" pictured (beauty wise) female on one side of the room, and male on the other side for 2 minutes. All of them on average would spend 45 or more seconds looking at their opposite genders face more. This says a lot in terms of natural attraction to the opposite gender due to the fact that this was done thousands of times using numerous faces of equal beauty (symmetry)....if the tests were flawed somehow you would think that at least a few would have shown different results...there weren't any.

Links please. Plus "every single test?" Come on now. Even in perfectly conducted studies there's always some outliers. I'd be wary of any study that didn't account for random occurrences somehow. That's like me saying "everyone that smokes cigarettes will get cancer and here's thousands of tests to show it and not a single one of them proved me wrong." We know the fallacy behind that, and I'm sure if the study really says "every single test did this" than the same fallacy will apply here.

6. Only 8% of the worlds population is gay/bi (same thing in my book). Why? You would think that if it is a naturally occurring thing and something yer "born" with this figure would be much higher. It isn't. It isn't because it's from the ever increasing corruption of modern society. I don't want to get religious here but to be honest the most sinful of governments and races in history had an epidemic of homosexuality. Back then it was referred to as sin, I call it corruption simply because I am not religious. The United States has the most gay people by far (population discrepancies figured), more than China, Brazil, Japan, Russia, France, Britain, any country at all....is it a coincidence that the U.S. these days just happens to be the most corrupt nation on earth?

This was a good one for many reasons. First off, it's blanket statements and no links. Plus I can play with statistics too. According to your own numbers, that's about 1 out of every 12 people. This is nowhere near any sort of "rare" status. We have recessive traits that show up nearly as often (eg: Only 1 out of 6 Americans are born with blue eyes, so getting blue eyes is only twice as likely as being gay/bi.) Plus this doesn't even touch the obvious thing you have to address below:

You may not want to be religious, but unfortunately the aspect of religion must be weighed in here. This is especially true if your argument is that humanity is capable of being "brainwashed" by society into believing what is right and what is wrong. You have a religion that believes homosexuality is wrong. Prior to this religion taking hold, you had civilizations where homosexual activities were the norm, and even celebrated (Ancient Greece.) However, this is the dominant religion of nearly every English-speaking civilization, and is the official religion of major countries. It's logical that out of fear of being ostracized by bigotry (eg: People such as yourself who wish to kill gays on sight) for thousands of years that they may not wish to be completely open about it. So despite years and years of a "brainwashing" job done by society to think that they're bad, 1 out of 12 people still state that they are gay/bi? That's pretty impressive.

Plus do you really think the US is the most corrupt country on the Earth? Yes, the US can be bad, but it's nowhere near the most corrupt on Earth. Also this is another one of your major debating fallacies. You're trying to make a false causation that homosexuality is the direct cause of our corrupt administration. That makes it highly laughable as the most corrupt administration that we've had in our time is one that believes everything they're doing is part of a Christian/God says so manner. We must be over in Iraq now and think about invading Iran for all those pesky gays, right?

To me it seems so obvious, why it is not for others I may never fully understand. Is it because of upbringing? Politically correct brainwashing...social influence. Whatever, until scientists present me with evidence that directly conflicts with my view that homosexuality is not a choice, and in fact natural due to some brain mechanism, then I will continue to rely on the obviousness of what I have in front of me...my body.

I already told you why it's obvious to you and not obvious to others. Throughout this thread you've made statements to the effect of "I am right because I say I'm right." When that's your foundation, nothing else is going to sway you. It's like trying to convince a hardcore Christian that God doesn't exist. No matter what you choose to present to them that questions the faith, they just adamantly stand their ground and say you're wrong with no real explanations as to why. So no, this line of thought that you have isn't going to be that obvious to me. I just don't come up to my thoughts in that sort of manner.

[Colonel Sanders]

I'll try to dig up those links later today after I get sleep; I read them in an article that hot linked them from a credible source about 6 months ago so it may take me awhile but I'm being honest when I say I'm not bullshitting and making em up.

For now I'll just respond to what I can.

I never said KS that homosexuality was the root cause of corruption in society or the cause of it all really. What I am saying is that it is a byproduct of it like many things.

It's funny you mention blue eyes randomly. Considering that blue eyes, as well as red hair, is a genetic mutation dating back thousands of years - thus unnatural...kinda like homosexuality. lol not really being serious there just thought I'd point out the unintentional irony of the argument on yer part cause I got a chuckle out of it.

Also any figure can be made to sound bigger than it really is when you do the "2 out of 5" people etc. thing. Corporate entities use that scheme all the time. When looked at from the grand scale 8% out of nearly 7 billion people is not much when yer dealing with something as life changing as homosexuality.

Finally I would say that yes I do believe whole heartedly that the U.S. is the most corrupt nation on Earth. Let's take a look at the track record:

1. The downfall of the U.S. began in 1907 when the Fascist and selfish Woodrow Wilson colluded with the bankers to create the federal reserve act, and thus the federal reserve bank. The very thing we went to war against Britain to free ourselves from.

2. Woodrow Wilson again, the worst president in our history, started the United States entry into WW1 by later faking intelligence and earlier sending innocent vacationers on a cruise to die from German submarines claiming that it had been a slaughter when in fact Germany, in honest warfare, warned Britain and the U.S. a full year earlier that any unmarked ships would be subject to torpedoing if caught traveling through war zone waters. The Lusitania was diverted to these waters by the American government without any knowledge to the passengers.

3. World War 2. Again the Fascist and Racist President Roosevelt who made it quite clear he hated all Asians in his writings decided to halt any and all trade with Japan (which you do not do even in wartime). This basically starved the Japanese and more importantly starved their oil supply; it was either war or get suffocated. Any country would have been forced into war due to this. It was exactly what Roosevelt was hoping for, a surprise attack (and what was made to seem unprovoked) from the Japanese would allow him to enter the war legally from congress and without the public outcry and anger. 84% of the American public wanted nothing to do with the war in Europe. He knew this and allowed the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor to happen even when he knew 100% certain a full two weeks prior that it was going to happen. 2,400 innocent and oblivious servicemen died.

4. The president authorizes the use of the Atomic Bomb. Two are dropped on civilian cities only with no military targets whatsoever. An estimated 200,000 people died with many dying agonizing deaths that you could not even imagine in your worst nightmare. It can not be rationalized, mass death of civilians in bombings cannot be traded for military lives in war. All that a moot point however as Japan was already going to surrender but the U.S. government ignored many opportunities and certain avenues of negotiation all which is commonplace all for the sake of demonstrating military might to the Russians.

5. 2003 - President Bush and his administration uses scare tactics and outright lies to force us into a war with Iraq. A declaration of war was never approved by congress. The goal is to obtain a buffer state in the middle east for future invasions and strategic foot holding and to acquire oil. The end result is for the United States to have strategic capabilities and to create general chaos both military, economically, and politically in hopes of speeding up the oblivious National Socialism takeover of the United States government, speeding up the third world war, and other things, which has been in the final planning stages for the past 15 years.

Many other small details over the years could be listed as well. So yeah I would definitely say the U.S. is the most corrupt modern nation. I just hope I live long enough and can do some good in my own little way when the Russians and Chinese come to crush this miserable piece of shit government, at least I hope they do, if not we'll all be living under a nuclear winter and none of it will matter anymore.

[Uganja]

Tell me again why it was exactly that you decided against taking your own life?

[peddle07]

just stop fighting and watch this. enjoy it. embrace each other.
click me >:) (http://chewyworks.ytmnd.com/)

[Drunken Monk]

just stop fighting and watch this. enjoy it. embrace each other.
click me >:) (http://chewyworks.ytmnd.com/)

I always wondered how Han was able to understand the creature..

And yeah I think I'm going to sit back and watch the arguments unfold on this thread from now on. Unless something really catches my eye, I'll let it play out. I think at this point it's a test of endurance for KAF and KS. Who's going to back down first..that's the obvious question right now.

[the squid of despair]

I'll try to dig up those links later today after I get sleep; I read them in an article that hot linked them from a credible source about 6 months ago so it may take me awhile but I'm being honest when I say I'm not bullshitting and making em up.

For now I'll just respond to what I can.

I never said KS that homosexuality was the root cause of corruption in society or the cause of it all really. What I am saying is that it is a byproduct of it like many things.

It's funny you mention blue eyes randomly. Considering that blue eyes, as well as red hair, is a genetic mutation dating back thousands of years - thus unnatural...kinda like homosexuality. lol not really being serious there just thought I'd point out the unintentional irony of the argument on yer part cause I got a chuckle out of it.

Interesting. So what are we supposed to look like? What is ideal, clean, non-mutated human supposed to look like?

Also any figure can be made to sound bigger than it really is when you do the "2 out of 5" people etc. thing. Corporate entities use that scheme all the time. When looked at from the grand scale 8% out of nearly 7 billion people is not much when yer dealing with something as life changing as homosexuality.

Finally I would say that yes I do believe whole heartedly that the U.S. is the most corrupt nation on Earth. Let's take a look at the track record:

1. The downfall of the U.S. began in 1907 when the Fascist and selfish Woodrow Wilson colluded with the bankers to create the federal reserve act, and thus the federal reserve bank. The very thing we went to war against Britain to free ourselves from.

Are you saying he started it in motion in 1907, but didn't get it approved until 1913? What sort of banking system would you suggest? Completly private? While PART of the reason may have been to escape the British taxation, that was not all there is too it. I haven't compared the 2 federal reserves, but your argument would only be logical if we fought to get away from one system and them implimented the exact same system with no changes.

2. Woodrow Wilson again, the worst president in our history, started the United States entry into WW1 by later faking intelligence and earlier sending innocent vacationers on a cruise to die from German submarines claiming that it had been a slaughter when in fact Germany, in honest warfare, warned Britain and the U.S. a full year earlier that any unmarked ships would be subject to torpedoing if caught traveling through war zone waters. The Lusitania was diverted to these waters by the American government without any knowledge to the passengers.

Another "fact" based on conspiracy. Have you ever read about it? Your story is way different from the standard US history. Can I have a link to the official documents you viewed regarding the presidents "fake intelligence"? The attack on the lustitania took place in 1915. The US didn't declare war on Germany until 1917 (2 years later) I'd say that's a pretty clear indication that the US wanted to remain neutral. If he was so eager to get in the war, why not jump at the first attack?

3. World War 2. Again the Fascist and Racist President Roosevelt who made it quite clear he hated all Asians in his writings decided to halt any and all trade with Japan (which you do not do even in wartime). This basically starved the Japanese and more importantly starved their oil supply; it was either war or get suffocated. Any country would have been forced into war due to this. It was exactly what Roosevelt was hoping for, a surprise attack (and what was made to seem unprovoked) from the Japanese would allow him to enter the war legally from congress and without the public outcry and anger. 84% of the American public wanted nothing to do with the war in Europe. He knew this and allowed the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor to happen even when he knew 100% certain a full two weeks prior that it was going to happen. 2,400 innocent and oblivious servicemen died.

So us stopping trade with Japan justified their attacks? Again, links to FACTS? Not just links to conspiracy articles. How do you know he was 100%certain 2 weeks before? You don't. Essentially, you're saying Japan went to war with us for oil? Yet you're opposed to a war in Iraq for oil?



4. The president authorizes the use of the Atomic Bomb. Two are dropped on civilian cities only with no military targets whatsoever. An estimated 200,000 people died with many dying agonizing deaths that you could not even imagine in your worst nightmare. It can not be rationalized, mass death of civilians in bombings cannot be traded for military lives in war. All that a moot point however as Japan was already going to surrender but the U.S. government ignored many opportunities and certain avenues of negotiation all which is commonplace all for the sake of demonstrating military might to the Russians.

Yet more BS from the KAFinator. There were plenty of military targets in both cities. Where do you do your reasearch? That's a serious question, because I honestly want to know where your "facts" come from. Japan had some intentions of surrender, the bomb was the right choice. Since when do you care about innocent lives lost in war?

5. 2003 - President Bush and his administration uses scare tactics and outright lies to force us into a war with Iraq. A declaration of war was never approved by congress. The goal is to obtain a buffer state in the middle east for future invasions and strategic foot holding and to acquire oil. The end result is for the United States to have strategic capabilities and to create general chaos both military, economically, and politically in hopes of speeding up the oblivious National Socialism takeover of the United States government, speeding up the third world war, and other things, which has been in the final planning stages for the past 15 years.

Aquire oil? Hey, we're just doing what Japan was doing. What does a foot hold in Iraq give us? It just puts us in the middle of 3 shit hole countries. As for the strategic invasions, who's next? You seem to have inside knowledge on the master plan, so please tell how it's going to play out. What's the next target? Will the rest of us ever see the benifits from the oil being captured? Or is it only oil for bush and cheney to get rich off of? Is Bush screwed with the oil when he leaves office? Or will the next president simply take over?


Many other small details over the years could be listed as well. So yeah I would definitely say the U.S. is the most corrupt modern nation. I just hope I live long enough and can do some good in my own little way when the Russians and Chinese come to crush this miserable piece of shit government, at least I hope they do, if not we'll all be living under a nuclear winter and none of it will matter anymore.

First, Russia and China would never crush us. It would take a whole hell of alot more than those 2.

It's funny how you say there will be a nuclear winter unless we get taken over. Do you honestly think anyone would ever attack the US, start winning, and not get nuked? If anything, that would be the worst idea. You can sit there all day and type this shit KAF, but you'll never act on any of it. Ever consider moving to China or Russia? Why not? I'm sure they have it much much better over there. It's been asked before, why not just leave?



It's hard to discuss anything with you, especially when you post plain lies and false "Facts".

EDIT: every where I put KACK I meant KAF :)

[Drunken Monk]

It's hard to discuss anything with you, especially when you post plain lies and false "Facts".

EDIT: every where I put KACK I meant KAF :)

Poor Karan would've been wondering why you're slandering him :hehe:

[TJ60]

Squid hit the points on the head for me. With that said, Kaf what country do you want to live in?

[Drunken Monk]

Squid hit the points on the head for me. With that said, Kaf what country do you want to live in? I

Yeah I'd agree with you on that. The only thing is, KAF has been given so many good return arguments and he just hasn't been able to come up with any good comebacks. It's a shame because the thread had real potential to be a good intellectual debate.

[Mitch]

"This i learned from dear old Dad, hate all the things you don't understand, so I hate all the things I don't understand." -Zebrahead.

[Colonel Sanders]

I want to live in New Zealand. One of my life goals is to move there before I am 35.

Also squid I's say yer horribly misinformed to argue on every single one of those points. The only thing I can tell ya to do is watch http://zeitgeistmovie.com/, specifically the 2nd and 3rd parts. Then after watching it (like I did) do yer own research and you'll fine the same exact government documents and historical records that proves everything I said, and what is said in that movie. Although I already knew about Pearl Harbor and the Lusitania long before I ever even heard of the zeitgeist movie; the thing I didn't know about was the federal reserve bank and just how evil and unconstitutional it really is.

[Smash Bros]

I want to live in New Zealand. One of my life goals is to move there before I am 35.

Also squid I's say yer horribly misinformed to argue on every single one of those points. The only thing I can tell ya to do is watch http://zeitgeistmovie.com/, specifically the 2nd and 3rd parts. Then after watching it (like I did) do yer own research and you'll fine the same exact government documents and historical records that proves everything I said, and what is said in that movie. Although I already knew about Pearl Harbor and the Lusitania long before I ever even heard of the zeitgeist movie; the thing I didn't know about was the federal reserve bank and just how evil and unconstitutional it really is.

so if i made a movie about how australia was really in league with killer penguins and faked up some documents online at random domains aswell as photoshoping some documents to look real and place them in a movie you would believe me??

pretty much what im saying is do not believe everything you read/watch online. it is extremely easy to come up with fake documents and then get fake people to give you fake seals of authenticity.

[Colonel Sanders]

If it was easy don't ya think you would do it?

I know what yer saying and believe me I know, but it's not the case here.

Only reason I choose New Zealand is because I know a good 5 people there. I like the culture and the government is great. Ah and yes the country itself is not 3,000 miles wide :( Probably the worst thing about America, too fucking big.

[Smash Bros]

New Zealand is an awsome place to live (have friends from there)

and yes it is easy to do. ive done it with emails before. with a picture of a real document you can make millions of fake ones.

[the squid of despair]

I want to live in New Zealand. One of my life goals is to move there before I am 35.

Also squid I's say yer horribly misinformed to argue on every single one of those points. The only thing I can tell ya to do is watch http://zeitgeistmovie.com/, specifically the 2nd and 3rd parts. Then after watching it (like I did) do yer own research and you'll fine the same exact government documents and historical records that proves everything I said, and what is said in that movie. Although I already knew about Pearl Harbor and the Lusitania long before I ever even heard of the zeitgeist movie; the thing I didn't know about was the federal reserve bank and just how evil and unconstitutional it really is.

Seen it and done the research. There was already a thread about that, you created it.

[Smash Bros]

Seen it and done the research. There was already a thread about that, you created it.

link please.

i wanna see this thread

[the squid of despair]

link please.

i wanna see this thread


http://forum.oddthought.com/showthread.php?t=10361&highlight=zeitgeist

[the squid of despair]

I want to live in New Zealand. One of my life goals is to move there before I am 35.

Also squid I's say yer horribly misinformed to argue on every single one of those points. The only thing I can tell ya to do is watch http://zeitgeistmovie.com/, specifically the 2nd and 3rd parts. Then after watching it (like I did) do yer own research and you'll fine the same exact government documents and historical records that proves everything I said, and what is said in that movie. Although I already knew about Pearl Harbor and the Lusitania long before I ever even heard of the zeitgeist movie; the thing I didn't know about was the federal reserve bank and just how evil and unconstitutional it really is.


So since you call me horribly mis-informed, let's have a link war. Post one proving me wrong (not just the zeitgeist one).

[Kloaked Spirit]

When it comes to this thread, here's the problem with posting these "facts" and the link about the movie. You've proven nothing about your original point. Let's assume we take everything at face value. Somehow you're magically right about everything you've posted for the US being corrupt. *Side note: Our current administration has done enough corruptive activity, we didn't need to go into conspiracy land to prove that an administration can do corrupt things.*

You haven't proven that it's the most corrupt nation on earth. You're pulling back history of the US to prove your point. If you're to compare the history of the US to the history of other countries (Stalinist Russia, Ancient and Communist China Regimes, Nazi Germany, almost any African nation, etc.) the US does not even come close to the level of corruptness these nations have achieved.

The next point is that you have to tie all of this in to the point of homosexuality devolving society. Well all you managed to show is that heterosexual people in offices of power managed to do far more corruption to society than homosexuals ever did. Unless you can start proving that the bisexual/homosexual community causes corruption on this magnitude, then it's tough for you to base an argument of that lifestyle corrupting society because we do a hell of a lot worse to ourselves as straight people.

[Colonel Sanders]

MMMMhmmmm

Considering all of those governments are now non-existent? The U.S. still has the same government. That is the difference.

[Calienta]

Africa is still around ...

[Colonel Sanders]

Yeh well Africa doesn't count in my book. They don't do jack shit but kill themselves over pointless civil war for menial power and spread aids; they seem to be in their own little reject world of the 12 century of warlord fighting. They aren't worthy to be in the world community or even counted.

[Kloaked Spirit]

You stated that the US is the corrupt nation on Earth. Then you go out and pull up history of various government administrations of the US. So this brings up two points:

- If you can pull up history on the nations past governmental policies, it's fair game for myself to do it;
- The US government isn't ran by the same administration throughout all those years. As a result it's hard to state that we're still the "same government." Yes, we're still a republic, but as the administration changes, so do our policies.

Not only that but kudos on the complete dismissal of multiple nations within an entire continent! Then kudos on dismissing the rest of the points as well. You're trying really hard to veer this off topic into something where you may have slightly more substance. Well you'll get the rest of the night to do that.

P.S. I forgot to mention this earlier, but please learn the meaning of the word ironic. It would have been ironic if I had pointed out a connection to blue eyes or red hair and then you were able to provide proof that those traits are on the same scale of corrupting/causing the devolution of society. All you did was reiterate the same connection that I was making already.

[Colonel Sanders]

If ya really think this country is led by administrations only you need a wake up call.

Also I said it was Ironic to me, I knew it wasn't to you, as I said.

And last time I checked Africa didn't start world wars and fights that actually have any influence to the civilized world. If they did it would be a lot different place with a lot different policies towards it.

EDIT: Hey hey 2K views.lol

[TJ60]

This is a prime example of why I'm against home schooling.

[Colonel Sanders]

what the hell does that even mean?

I was homeschooled from 3rd grade to early 7th. All the rest was public highschool and the rest of my schooling in the 7th.

[TJ60]

Damn I guess i was confused by this post

http://forum.oddthought.com/showpost.php?p=142290&postcount=19

[Colonel Sanders]

And? Yeah I said a lot of homeschooled children are. I wasn't one because I didn't spend my whole life homeschooled. As in I am not some socially shy or what not kid who doesn't know what to do/how to talk/where to put his hands...bullshit like that.

[TJ60]

Jesus Christ KAF! I wasn't talking about your beliefs on home schooling, I was refering to the fact you gave to different answers to how long you were home schooled.

I was homeschooled from 3rd grade to early 7th. All the rest was public highschool and the rest of my schooling in the 7th.


Well I was homeschooled from 5th - 10th grade, finished up my junior and senior years in high school because our family moved crossed state

NOW! Do you understand where I got the idea you were home schooled?

[Drunken Monk]

Jesus Christ KAF! I wasn't talking about your beliefs on home schooling, I was refering to the fact you gave to different answers to how long you were home schooled.

NOW! Do you understand where I got the idea you were home schooled?


This just highlights his inconsistencies all throughout this thread. KAF really...take a break, go outside and enjoy the sunshine. Reboot your argument and debate skills cause they clearly need a lot of work.

[Kloaked Spirit]

If ya really think this country is led by administrations only you need a wake up call.

Yes, it's really led by the Illuminati. Secret back door hush hush conspiracies. How could I be so blind? Wow, and I bet their plan is to make all governments bow to their wishes or we flood them people from the bisexual/homosexual community too! Thanks for not only opening my eyes, but then once again bringing it back to the topic of this thread. You know, the topic of if it's cool to beat on gays for being gay. Not whether you can dodge basic facts about corrupt nations worldwide to make your viewpoints there. If you want to continue the discussion of the US being corrupt compared to all nations in history, go make another thread.

And last time I checked Africa didn't start world wars and fights that actually have any influence to the civilized world. If they did it would be a lot different place with a lot different policies towards it.

You're right. There's no need to ever be influenced at all by constant genocide, starvation, disease, and civil war. It's also like we never found out exactly how corrupt these countries are when we've sent in troops for peace keeping missions. In fact, we should somehow find a way to separate just a couple of nations from the rest of the Africa (hey we need our diamonds!) After that, just pile on all the gay people with the rest of the unneeded continent and try to submerge it into the ocean. I mean both groups of people are just completely unnecessary. :roll:

[Colonel Sanders]

Heh sorry Jock. I actually didn't expect any inconsistencies in the numbers so I didn't bother looking. But yeah I'm not sure why I said through 10, more than likely because I got moved down here in the late 7th/early 8th grade and was home schooled then until we got settled down with moving in and my dads job....and then again in the 10th for a littler over half the school year time due to my house burning down in that year and it was just less strenuous and easier to do homeschooling during that time. But yeah 3-10 I guess is the correct number if ya want to get technical. But I already made all my connections and friends and shit in the late 8th/9th grades so it was pretty much like I never was, I can't hardly remember being home schooled during those times to be honest.

And yeh Monk I am bout to do that right now. I got a free meal with dessert in the mail cause my birthday is coming up. Got about 5 friends coming with me. Can't exactly "enjoy" the sunshine though cause we had tornadoes last night along with shit tons of rain so the mud is ridiculous. May try to go play tennis though.

PS: Since Kloaked posted ahead of me. Did I ever say conspiracy theories with secret groups? Nah I did not. I simply mean connections, friends, ties to the corporations. People can make things happen with just their connections alone and completely circumvent the legal side of it, thats a not exactly unknown or conspiracy.

And yeah if you weren't being sarcastic I would absolutely agree with you! I mean really why deal with people who do nothing but starve their people, commit sectarian genocide, and start civil wars...they never help themselves or try to get help:dunno:

[HellRaiser]

The amount of Corruptness of the USA vs other nations etc, is a whole topic on it's own that would be fun to explore lol.

[Smash Bros]

/me goes to make thread.

[Davecat]

I feel I dont even have to make a tangible post in this thread to accomplish what I would have loved to in the foremost instance...

Making kaf look like a complete tool.

He claims to be agnostic in his beliefs on more than one occasion.

The kind of botom line for agnostics is that nothing can be proven without first being based on an assumption.

In which case - all of his 'truth's' regarding natural selection, genetics etc... are all VERY very flawed....

Well they were anyways... but his own belief system states that he cant technically know anything.

On a slightly different note - one of the few stark benefits of living in a 'kaf-world' would be that someone who objected to the way kaf thinks would have ended him in the same way they might 'end' a child molester or gay...



Disclaimer : My post would have been more relevant to the op's point... if I could accept that he had one.

[Drunken Monk]

Necro poster! Haven't seen my thread surface to the top in a while. Mayhaps this will rejuvinate it :O

[Tony The Tiger]

Sorry about your friend.

Sexuality is not a "disease" it is simply a choice. It's a choice some people make, because it's the way they feel, and it's how they want to express yourself. I admit, if I had a son, and at the dinner table he said, "Dad, I am homosexual" yeah I'd be a little shocked, but I wouldn't get a gang after him.

Again,
Sorry About your friend.

[Drunken Monk]

More necro posting! :D

Thanks Tony, he's doing fine now, this happened a while back and he's made his peace with the whole situation. Was kind of upset when I told him I made a post about it on a forum! Doesn't really want to talk about the incident anymore so maybe neither should we! Ssshhhhh :snuggle:

[Davecat]

I thought i'd resurrect a forum post along with my account...

FFS it's sad when posting in a 'top 10 most recent' thread = necroposting though :bleh:

[Burnfluffy]

*The answer is quit simple, any human being knows at their very core that it is wrong...it's just that people start to get brainwashed from such an early age about the topic they pretty soon start to believe other people's views before they can even start to think and adopt one of their own.Colonel Sanders
Formerly K.A.F. Elite*

People like you are fucking nuts, you are brainwashed, and do it to other people stopping them thinking what they like. Your probably also racist so don't even agree with the people that did it. People like you quote from the bible without being religious, Sodomy is wrong (you probably think prison rape is fine) but what two consenting adults do is up to them. The less people that have children the better, are you catholic? You don't make sense. The leaders of the national front are gay.(thats true)

[Colonel Sanders]

heh yeh cause I GUESS if two consenting adults want to go out and kidnap someone out of "necessity" or whatever bullshit they can come up with thats fine too aye? After all they thought about it in depth and they are two grown ass adults so I guess they can do no wrong if they thought in depth and think it's a right thing to do right?

Do you even hear yourself talk? Nobody can make an argument over the "consenting adults" bullshit it's too fucking stupid. Hitler and his officers "consented" that the Jewish race was a blight upon humanity so I guess thats puts them in the right so nobody can argue against it or try to stop it, how amazing the world would have been during those days if that was the attitude the European Powers had.

[the squid of despair]

heh yeh cause I GUESS if two consenting adults want to go out and kidnap someone out of "necessity" or whatever bullshit they can come up with thats fine too aye? After all they thought about it in depth and they are two grown ass adults so I guess they can do no wrong if they thought in depth and think it's a right thing to do right?

Do you even hear yourself talk? Nobody can make an argument over the "consenting adults" bullshit it's too fucking stupid. Hitler and his officers "consented" that the Jewish race was a blight upon humanity so I guess thats puts them in the right so nobody can argue against it or try to stop it, how amazing the world would have been during those days if that was the attitude the European Powers had.

I see your logic very clearly and it makes 100% perfect sense. 2 adults consenting to a private sexual act between the 2 of them is exactly the same as Hitler and the Nazis consenting to kill millions of Jews. The similarities are staggering.

[Colonel Sanders]

I'm glad you see my point of view finally Squid. If a race can be consented to being a blight then so can any kind of social corruption including gays.

[the squid of despair]

I'm glad you see my point of view finally Squid. If a race can be consented to being a blight then so can any kind of social corruption including gays.


I don't understand how 2 people consenting to have sex is the same as a group of people killing another. For your argument to stand, both sides need to CONSENT to the killing...

[Burnfluffy]

Like that bloke who found a willing victim on the internet to kill and eat?

I know lets consent to kill colonel sanders, thats fair. you don't get a say sanders cos we consented without asking you. Don't feel like eating the piece of shit though, that would be too much of a compliment.

The less people that have children the better, are you catholic? Why is it wrong? Whos opinion are u spreading? Don't u wank?


You don't make sense. The leaders of the national front are gay.(thats true)

[Quaker]

When it comes to this thread, here's the problem with posting these "facts" and the link about the movie. You've proven nothing about your original point. Let's assume we take everything at face value. Somehow you're magically right about everything you've posted for the US being corrupt. *Side note: Our current administration has done enough corruptive activity, we didn't need to go into conspiracy land to prove that an administration can do corrupt things.*

You haven't proven that it's the most corrupt nation on earth. You're pulling back history of the US to prove your point. If you're to compare the history of the US to the history of other countries (Stalinist Russia, Ancient and Communist China Regimes, Nazi Germany, almost any African nation, etc.) the US does not even come close to the level of corruptness these nations have achieved.

The next point is that you have to tie all of this in to the point of homosexuality devolving society. Well all you managed to show is that heterosexual people in offices of power managed to do far more corruption to society than homosexuals ever did. Unless you can start proving that the bisexual/homosexual community causes corruption on this magnitude, then it's tough for you to base an argument of that lifestyle corrupting society because we do a hell of a lot worse to ourselves as straight people.

KAF please read the above and respond accordingly before having us go in another round of circles.

Your logic is very flawed.

Your arguments are very flawed.

Your "facts" are very flawed.

Please post something, as you promised to do so long ago, to back your point of view up.

On April 9, 2008 you said:
I'll try to dig up those links later today after I get sleep; I read them in an article that hot linked them from a credible source about 6 months ago so it may take me awhile but I'm being honest when I say I'm not bullshitting and making em up.

You have had more than enough time to "dig up those links".

I would ask everyone to ignore KAF on this topic until he has had a chance to back something up, otherwise, we are just feeding a troll.

:)