Theorys of Human Life

[Smash Bros]

ok this thread im making so that we can discuss theroys of how we got here.

mainly it is so that kaf can come in and actually tell us his thoughts. no it is not a go at hime or anything i am generally interested in it since he mentioned it in the other thread so i thought that instead of hijacking it we can discuss it in here :D

[Tca]

Evolution, we simply evolved, well not simply, it took a hell of a long time, but we evolved and became what we are.

On a side note, i find it pretty ironic and funny that religious people slam evolution as rubbish, yet believe there is a god.

[steff]

Evolution. At least it's a plausible theory contrasting it with blind faith.

[Drunken Monk]

Evolution. At least it's a plausible theory contrasting it with blind faith.

Wow I love this particular topic cause I've actually lectured people about it before. And unlike KAF, I'm actually going to be rational about this.

Basically there's two major theories that we're presented with :

1) The Darwinist Theory of Evolution:
Charles Darwin basically declared in the mid-late 1800s that human beings originated from basic single celled life forms through the process of evolution. Although this theory had been addressed in the past, Darwin was the first one to actually provide any tangible evidence. If you follow his theory, basically it means you accept the fact that at some point in our history, we were single celled organisms like protozoans or amoeboids that gradually adapted to simple multi celled structures like hydrae and spnges and then to complex multi celled structures like the first primitive fish. From what I know of how the cycle progresses it's Fish -> Amphibians -> Reptiles -> Birds -> Mammals -> Primates -> Prehistoric Man -> Homo Sapien Sapien (which is our official scientific categorisation at present.)

2) The Creationist Theory:
Love this one because it says that "God" created us in the biblical sense with the coming of Adam and Eve and you know how it goes.


Now the key point to be mentioned in both these theories of our creation, is that both originated from a paradigm i.e. a collection of ideals and beliefs. Darwin may have found evidence in respect of fossils and such (and after him a lot more evidence has been found supporting his theory) but at the end of the day, there is no hard evidence to suggest that the Darwinist model is right. This goes for the Creationist Theory as well. Even though millions of born agains may believe it to be true, hard evidence is still lacking. In fact, both these theories may be considered nothing more than a set of principles portrayed with scientific(in case of Darwin) or religious (in case of Creationism) jargon and ideas to offer them credibility. Even the Big Bang Theory is at best an educated guess. Since we weren't there and didn't actually witness evolution occur step by step, can we truly rely on the proof we have now(for both Darwinists and Creationists)? For some people it's enough...but what about those who still question?

[Drunken Monk]

PS love the topic of discussion. This one should get even more hits than my homophobia thread :)

[wats_up]

PS love the topic of discussion. This one should get even more hits than my homophobia thread :)

I doubt it... This is all to straight foward

Evolution or Creationist? Or then theres the people that really dont care.


Personally, I think evolution... But only cause my brother looks like a chimp lol

[Santo]

We come from aliens :|

[Drunken Monk]

I doubt it... This is all to straight foward

Evolution or Creationist? Or then theres the people that really dont care.


Personally, I think evolution... But only cause my brother looks like a chimp lol

Hehe well you can't argue with that! But I was actually trying to say that don't both theories have equal weightage? If you think about it, they both boil down to faith and belief. Darwin didn't actually encounter the evolution taking place. What's to stop other scientists from saying that the fossils they found of pre-historic man weren't a different species altogether and had similar physiologies to men..like chimps or apes.

Creationists likewise didn't witness Eve originating from Adam's rib, so they'd be on about their belief in the biblical explanations..it's sort of like a double whammy in many ways and if the mind is exposed to air outside the box, both these theories seem equally probable in different contexts..don't they?

[Drunken Monk]

We come from aliens :|

Hehe you know what man, believe it or not, there's actually a school of thought that would totally agree with that. I didn't take that into account actually because it wasn't on the top of my mind at the moment, but yeah, that argument has been approached in the past. Also, believe it or not, there have been universities in the past which have been given grants in order to research this possibility of origin. Quite fascinating..

[pinzNneedlz]

Hehe you know what man, believe it or not, there's actually a school of thought that would totally agree with that. I didn't take that into account actually because it wasn't on the top of my mind at the moment, but yeah, that argument has been approached in the past. Also, believe it or not, there have been universities in the past which have been given grants in order to research this possibility of origin. Quite fascinating..

i have heard of this theory before as well. that humans were infact "planted" here. i've also heard one on how aliens reproduced with primates here, giving birth to a new species (us). i know they are pretty far fetched, but it would also explain why there is a missing link in the chain. i believe you can throw the religous aspect of how we got here out the window. religion is the most crooked form of business there is. not to get off the subject of the thread, if you have the time...check out zeitgeist movie. great propaganda film.
my 2 cents are in now.

Peace,

[Colonel Sanders]

Both theories are bullocks because as I said in the other thread neither explains how "God" came to be. Or how those single celled organisms got there...and they never will.

I can't create a theory of origins because it is quite simply beyond me and anyone else. I do however have a theory of the origin of man which I think is quite plausible given all the historical data we have coupled with modern research.

I personally think that we were created by aliens (the same aliens that we have all the sightings of). Obviously they are much more advanced, by thousands and thousands of years and who knows where they come from exactly, could be from a different galaxy for all we know. The reason behind it is for observation and knowledge...to see how a civilization progresses from start to finish. The knowledge to be gained from that by a far advanced civilization, is when you think about it, priceless. It would be like us having a time machine and observing with a cloaked ship the evolution of our own society across thousands of years. The potential for the aliens I believe would be even greater as it would give them a glimpse of their own prior evolution and the knowledge to be gained would as I said be priceless.

The evidence I have to back it up would be stuff like the numerous paintings of ancient man that clearly depict flying saucers. The hieroglyphs and other such similar types from other cultures that also depict a different type humanoid figure as opposed among all the rest around it. Again pictured in some of these paintings is what is clearly a flashlight...very odd. Although it didn't make big news I remember watching a special on it on the history channel and being fascinated by it. And then of course you have the modern sightings which 10% of go unexplained even with the best efforts of modern science to debunk them...and of course all the personal sightings. My grandmother once saw one alongside her daughter back in the day. She is fiercely religious and didn't believe in aliens but she still says what she saw was undeniable and I know, and everyone else, that she is the last person to lie, especially about something like that.

[Todd]

What he said (Y) :dunno:

[Smash Bros]

ok i personally believe about evolution. to me that is how we came to be here.


and kaf the theroy is alright and yeah i know it has a lot of followers in the world (me being one about aliens anyways) but how did they get to be here aswell?? and so what you are saying is that there are aliens out there that are similar to us yet we are their off spring?? which means if they are not the exact same that they would of evolved??

[Colonel Sanders]

No I am saying that they created us, not gave birth to us (for lack of a better term).

Like I said I don't know how THEY got here, or anything else....like I said it is impossible for us to know...hell I'm willing to bet that even they do not know. I am only speculating on the short term of how we as a race came to be.

My best educated guess is that since (all the evidence suggests anyways) they are not exactly like us they created us differently.

As in they started with their own genetic code and modified it radically so that we would be more suited to life on this planet and be more corporeal to the organisms on it including the food. Keep in mind that whenever I say evolution I am referring to the advancement of culture and natural selection, not the single celled organism thing.

[Smash Bros]

so they created us based on their genetic make up and then dumped us on another planet to see how we survive???


and based on that im guessing you believe that there are other planets with the human species habitating them??

[Colonel Sanders]

Possibly but I prefer not to think that far.

I mean you have to realize that our planet is quite unique, not very many of them in the galaxy because of the simple fact it takes millions of years for a planet to evolve to a near perfect place like Earth has. Now sure there are, according to science, many many planets out there in our Galaxy alone that can support human life but hardly any of them are at the stage earth is. As in we have 4 different ecosystems, massive amounts of water etc.....quite simply a paradise. It's hard to see it in the mass scheme of things, war, famine, pollution, overpopulation, but we are truly a diamond in the ruff.

[DnD]

I like to believe that I happened by accident. Like the accidents involved in genetic mutations neccesary for evolution. Like the accidental chemical reactions involving the organic compounds that first brewed in the primordial seas.
I don't know, but I think it's a simpler explanation than Aliens, or higher powers. And also, creationalism more or less means that we were put here for some purpose. I find comfort in the thought that my life is perfectly purposeless. :)

[Tca]

I actually quite like Kafs theory, well thought out and has given me alot to think about, i was gonna add something about the evolution theory, which i shall now, then we may very well get back onto aliens, cos, i find its an interesting topic at the best of times.

Whoever said it, forget who said it, but scientists have exhibited apes and monkeys etc behaving in a way which suggests that they have human traits in their genetic make up, using tools and the such.

Anyways, aliens are actually alot more plausible then anybody thinks, like Kaf says, there is a ton of sightings and science simply can't explain them all and nobody is gonna sit here and tell me there is that many crackpots running around in the world. Somebody once said "Humans can't be so ignorant to think we're alone in the universe". The quote itself suits in here pretty well.

[Smash Bros]

maybe we should all go hunting aliens lol.

[Aeon]

we are the direct result of a universal experiment gone wrong...

what happens when you mate fish and monkey's...
lol
humans

[Smash Bros]

rofl aeon

[pinzNneedlz]

this has gotten to be a rather fascinating thread. alot of insight from what seems to be some pretty bright minds!!!! i wonder if the aliens play dopewars?
they probly use coats by different names like the Tarnok Tunic. shit i'm not even gonna get into where the subway goes for them. lmao, maybe earth is a stop!!!!!

[Tca]

LOL we're all just gettin silly now :P

but you never know i guess lol

[Drunken Monk]

I actually quite like Kafs theory, well thought out and has given me alot to think about, i was gonna add something about the evolution theory, which i shall now, then we may very well get back onto aliens, cos, i find its an interesting topic at the best of times.

Whoever said it, forget who said it, but scientists have exhibited apes and monkeys etc behaving in a way which suggests that they have human traits in their genetic make up, using tools and the such.

Anyways, aliens are actually alot more plausible then anybody thinks, like Kaf says, there is a ton of sightings and science simply can't explain them all and nobody is gonna sit here and tell me there is that many crackpots running around in the world. Somebody once said "Humans can't be so ignorant to think we're alone in the universe". The quote itself suits in here pretty well.


Completely agree with you there TCA. I've never had any "sightings" or "close encounters" but my logical side refuses to believe that somewhere out there, aliens don't exist. Just think about it, the universe is a vast place and there's millions of light years of space to explore. So if earth can support life in this one tiny solar system with only 8 other planets (9 if you consider the new one discovered), then out of the millions of planets out there, at least one more is bound to have gone through the same processes that support life.

Now whether the life form is anatomically similar to humans, or technologically superior, or metabolically different, is really anybody's guess. It may be moss and lichen for all we know. But as far the existence of that life is concerned, I'd definitely say it's a high probability. And if that day ever comes when "aliens" visit Earth, the sociological implications will be mind boggling. So many things are going to change permanently. Human typified society won't count for scrap then.

[Smash Bros]

if aliens ever visit earth that would be the day that teh church dies. although if they are studying us as kaf suggests they just need to say that they are god and then they already rule most of teh earth's human population.

and id go as far as to say that it is a certanity that there is life somewhere out there.

im a huge paranormal buff i and actually believe alot of the stuff BUT there is alot that is fake aswell. just need to be careful though i guess.

[Drunken Monk]

if aliens ever visit earth that would be the day that teh church dies. although if they are studying us as kaf suggests they just need to say that they are god and then they already rule most of teh earth's human population.

and id go as far as to say that it is a certanity that there is life somewhere out there.

im a huge paranormal buff i and actually believe alot of the stuff BUT there is alot that is fake aswell. just need to be careful though i guess.

As far as relating to the theory of evolution is concerned, there have been interesting recordings of "aliens" or "gigantic beings" from other worlds in historical text. The Mesopotamians and Sumerians, one of the first cultures of the ancient world, recorded in tablets and stone moulds these gigantic beings juxtaposed to the normal human. Often these enormous figures were placed on the throne however so perhaps the enlarged size of the person is simply a metaphor and is directly proportional to the greatness of his rule or his competence.

I think that the theories of evolution each have their questionable points and their glaring flaws. Darwinism certainly makes it hard to imagine that we came from fish, while Creationism really makes it hard to imagine that my girl friend came originally from some bloke's rib. Also yes, the first valid point I've hear KAF make since I've been here - If "God" created Adam and Eve, who created God?

It's like I said right in the begining, no matter what theory you chose to believe, there's flaws and it can be strongly questioned. So, which one should we believe? Or should we even question in the first place how our existence came to be. Wouldn't blind faith be more peaceful and avoid conflict...or is that just part of our human condition..to question and strive. Quite the philosophical standpoint.

[odd th0mas]

i likes col. sanders theory. except instead of aliens they were the anunnaki who were not from the stars, but from our own solar system. zacharia sitchin tells the whole story in "the earth chronicles". He came to his conclusions by deciphering ancient sumerian clay scrolls. the scrolls talked about ancient astronauts(anunnaki) that came to planet earth some 400,000 years ago and after trying to mine gold to take back to their planet to fix their atmosphere, and overwelmed by the laborious job they decided to create a slave race by mixing their genes with the native primates(who evolved here naturally) on the planet. the creation was us. they had problems with their creation because of the spirit that they endowed us with. there were wars between them(gods) and us(men). there was innerbreeding between the 2 which created demi-gods. the story goes on....and ya all should read it. it makes alot of sense. the anunnaki are mentioned in the bible.


[edit] imo, this thread will be incomplete unless phuckit, oddthought's very own philosopher, chimes in.

[HellRaiser]

Odd Thomas, took the words out my mouth and my beliefs as well.

I will just add that also Lawrence Gardner also has some wicked material on the subject.
The Sumerian/Anunnaki scrolls was the original and oldest texts ever recorded and found that pre dates all religions.
Hence, the closest thing to TRUTH or FACT we can base conclusions from as a concept.
If you ever spend the time and have the patience to read the material you will come to find Christianity,judasim and muslim
all stole millions of pieces of the Anuannki story and warped/distorted the material to suit their own religious indoctrination bullshit.
Oddily enough, in essence it actually destroys religion all together if it wasn't controlled by religious influence to be defined as myth.

[Calienta]

That's actually incredibly interesting. I'm going to see if I can find any books about it.

[Drunken Monk]

i likes col. sanders theory. except instead of aliens they were the anunnaki who were not from the stars, but from our own solar system. zacharia sitchin tells the whole story in "the earth chronicles". He came to his conclusions by deciphering ancient sumerian clay scrolls. the scrolls talked about ancient astronauts(anunnaki) that came to planet earth some 400,000 years ago and after trying to mine gold to take back to their planet to fix their atmosphere, and overwelmed by the laborious job they decided to create a slave race by mixing their genes with the native primates(who evolved here naturally) on the planet. the creation was us. they had problems with their creation because of the spirit that they endowed us with. there were wars between them(gods) and us(men). there was innerbreeding between the 2 which created demi-gods. the story goes on....and ya all should read it. it makes alot of sense. the anunnaki are mentioned in the bible.


[edit] imo, this thread will be incomplete unless phuckit, oddthought's very own philosopher, chimes in.



I didn't want to mention the whole anunnaki theory but I see you did. I guess it's just as credible as the creationist theory really. The Greek depictions of "Gods" would be perceived as being part of the "anunnaki" theory. Zeus and his fellow "Gods" on Olympius would've been considered part of the anunnaki. David and Goliath as well.

[the squid of despair]

Possibly but I prefer not to think that far.

I mean you have to realize that our planet is quite unique, not very many of them in the galaxy because of the simple fact it takes millions of years for a planet to evolve to a near perfect place like Earth has. Now sure there are, according to science, many many planets out there in our Galaxy alone that can support human life but hardly any of them are at the stage earth is. As in we have 4 different ecosystems, massive amounts of water etc.....quite simply a paradise. It's hard to see it in the mass scheme of things, war, famine, pollution, overpopulation, but we are truly a diamond in the ruff.

What do you mean by 4 different ecosystems?

[Smash Bros]

any links to teh anunnaki theory??

i actually want to read about this now

[Colonel Sanders]

What do you mean by 4 different ecosystems?

Ecosystem may or may not be the right word..can't really remember but I think thats right.

I mean as in desert/grassland/tundra/tropical/woodland...which I guess would be 5. Just looked it up. An Ecosystem can be referred to within many different regions so you can get up to a 100+ but the main Ecosystems are classified into the different groups which I listed above.

[Stinger]

My beliefs also fall closely to those of OddThomas'. It is of some interest to me why people get so caught up in how we got here though. It is really of very little consequence in the end however.

Interestingly enough, the Christian bible also speaks of giants. It is said that angels (men of God) came down to earth to intermingle with women (daughters of man), thus creating the "men of great stature" (dimensions for their beds are even given). These were the beings thought of as "gods" that then produced the giants (or demi-gods). Maybe the "angels" were merely aliens, an unknown being with greater power...in essence, god-like beings.

I believe that religions all hold pieces of the truth, and that no one group has all the answers, but that they were all designed to bring people to spirit...that part of each of us that lives eternally (the energy that goes back to the source of light that animates us) that we might learn to ascend from this physical form to something greater...becoming "gods" ourselves in a certain sense.

[XXX]

:goodevil:Not nessasaryly,

:whistle:But we might be wrong.

[Doobz]

yea so i havent read all this stuff and im sure its interesting... i personaly believe we ar3e devine creations, and rather that evolve to where we are id like to call it adaptation... and im not familiar with any darwinism or thins and that but i dont believe i was a monley at all ever before... if i was... how come their aint no halk monkey men running around right now...

[Drunken Monk]

yea so i havent read all this stuff and im sure its interesting... i personaly believe we ar3e devine creations, and rather that evolve to where we are id like to call it adaptation... and im not familiar with any darwinism or thins and that but i dont believe i was a monley at all ever before... if i was... how come their aint no halk monkey men running around right now...


I think you mean "half" and the answer to that is because evolution takes millioins and millions of years to be completed. As per the Darwinist model, we didn't just drop from the trees and turn human, it was a long process. As it is our DNA can be closely linked to other primates and they even exhibit strong human attributes such as opposable thumbs, use of rudimentary tools and even complex facial expressions and moods. But this is a necro post! :rolleyes:

[steff]

Necorposting is fine if it's still a relevant topic and relevant post. Withinr eason of course. (read: don't bump a year old thread)

[EviLWaYz]

I think the big bang Theorys is a load of shit or there would only be white people and none others!


any one eles agree?

[Q80Thug]

an interesting side quest to this thread, what if they was another sentient evolved beings on earth beside us.

i personally think that out of the bird kingdom that crows would be most likely to develop and evolve...

what about the creatures of the sea or other land mammals ??

history have showed us that humans are inherently raciest, would we have lived in coexistence ?

any thoughts ?!?

[Drunken Monk]

an interesting side quest to this thread, what if they was another sentient evolved beings on earth beside us.

i personally think that out of the bird kingdom that crows would be most likely to develop and evolve...

what about the creatures of the sea or other land mammals ??

history have showed us that humans are inherently raciest, would we have lived in coexistence ?

any thoughts ?!?



Just posted about that in the "Racism" thread in AIW. Human beings are the only species on this planet that are racist and discriminate against its own kind.

But it is possible that chimps or other primates would have sentience. I mean the maternal instincts that they exhibit for example is far superior to any other animal. For example, deer, zebras, wildebeast etc will abandon their young if not healthy and fit, however chimps have been known to nurture and support their offspring instead of just abandoning, much like human beings do. So I suppose there are signs of evolution there.

[Q80Thug]

the reason i didnt mention apes or primates in general is that im assuming what they did evolve into us. crows and ravens are incredibly intelligent and are excellent tool makers, they have the necessary skills that would let them prosper if they had evolved, in case of sea creatures octopuses and dolphins are likely candidates.

my question is : assuming that crows did become conscious, sentient and managed to physically evolve. would they lose the ability to fly ?

[Drunken Monk]

the reason i didnt mention apes or primates in general is that im assuming what they did evolve into us. crows and ravens are incredibly intelligent and are excellent tool makers, they have the necessary skills that would let them prosper if they had evolved, in case of sea creatures octopuses and dolphins are likely candidates.

my question is : assuming that crows did become conscious, sentient and managed to physically evolve. would they lose the ability to fly ?


Well anything said by anyone on this topic would have to be a presumption and deductive at best so it would have very little credibility but yeah dude it's fun to imagine! I think that all animals have evolved in order to fulfill their necessities and in order to optimise living conditions owing to their environments (adaptation as it were) and so if crows were compelled to adapt into conscious, sentient beings, they might well lose the ability to fly as it may become redundant. Then again if i were a crow, I wouldn't sacrifice flight for sentience! I'd rather not know where I'm going and why and fly there instead of knowing it all and taking the fucking tube :P

[Tony The Tiger]

I don't think I want to explain my beliefs...:bananapowerslide:

[Smash Bros]

no we wouldnt of.

if we cant stand others of our own speices that is a different colour what chance do we have of co-existing with other intellegent beings??

[HellRaiser]

That's why only the special ones will survive after the Mayan Calender finishes it's cycle, lol.

[Drunken Monk]

Are you suggesting the end is nigh? :bye:

[HellRaiser]

Just for some lol. :bowing:

[Drunken Monk]

Well if that day ever comes when I know the apocalypse is at hand and certain death is imminent, the first thing I'm doing is getting my looting sack ready and going out with my pitch fork and torch. Hey the least I could do is hoard before i die and forage for some of the good shit! :D

[DnD]

Well if that day ever comes when I know the apocalypse is at hand and certain death is imminent, the first thing I'm doing is getting my looting sack ready and going out with my pitch fork and torch. Hey the least I could do is hoard before i die and forage for some of the good shit! :D

I hear that! My looting would begin at the Liquor Store, and end at the Pharmacy. lol :bye:

[Flashman]

I like to believe that I happened by accident.

I'd like to believe that too............:P

[Drunken Monk]

I hear that! My looting would begin at the Liquor Store, and end at the Pharmacy. lol :bye:


lol mine would start at the liquor store and end in the emergency ward for having alcohol leaking out of my ears :hehe: I won't get a chance to go as far as the pharmacy I'm afraid.

[steff]

And neither of you think to pick up some tart on the way home? :O

[HellRaiser]

You all act like you had a news ticker to tell you ahead of time to make these plans, hehehe. :bye:

[XXX]

:goodevil:And don't forget, on the first day of spring break God made Muppet's!

[DnD]

I'd like to believe that too............:P


lmao, Sometimes genius just isn't planned.

[Thikpis]

I can't believe some of the utter shit I am reading here.

http://richarddawkins.net/

The Four Horseman video is good.
Take it or leave it, I don't give a rats ass.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/robbie260/TFR918.gif

[Colonel Sanders]

Richard Dawkins no more has the answer than any of us. Nor does he have the proof that evolution exists (although he often likes to believe that he does and it's fact) which is one of the main reasons I don't like him. And quite frankly for anyone to embrace Dawkins as if he is some messiah and some wise person who has more answers than the common man for the atheist following pretty much defeats the purpose of what he is arguing against.

Think for yourself about such things and if you don't have the knowledge/research to make a theory of your own or follow a theory you think is most likely then just don't try and simply live your life.

[Thikpis]

I am drowning and you are describing the fucking water.

Dawkins is a Biologist, a scientist. Messiahs are for people who can just as easily be fooled that some early culture symbology is proof of alien human origin. If this is the most likely theory to which your own research leads then cancel your subscription from Marvel Comics.

Dawkins is at the least a voice of balance against the high moral ground where religion so unduly places itself.

[Colonel Sanders]

Yet you come into this thread saying that your laughing at our theories and post a link to Richard Dawkins website.

That doesn't exactly make you seem very intelligent on the matter either.

All the while you are slinging the "proof" word around. Nobody in this thread has said that ancient cultures art and symbols amongst other things is proof that our origins were from other humanoid beings. Clues maybe, but nowhere have we said proof, I certainly don't believe that and anyone would be retarded to think otherwise.

If I was a fool on this subject I wouldn't be an agnostic.

[Thikpis]

Slinging isn’t my bag.

Nobody in this thread has said that ancient cultures art and symbols amongst other things is proof that our origins were from other humanoid beings.

And I certainly have not accused anybody of it. I merely suggest that if you can accept some cave drawings as evidence of alien human origin, to the point of in fact believing it to be true, then there really is no limit of what you could be convinced. How boring a messiah would be.

I personally think that we were created by aliens (the same aliens that we have all the sightings of)………………………………… The evidence I have to back it up would be stuff like the numerous paintings of ancient man that clearly depict flying saucers.
……………………………………..

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion


Clues maybe, but nowhere have we said proof, I certainly don't believe that and anyone would be retarded to think otherwise. .

Indeed. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f211/robbie260/TFR918.gif

[Colonel Sanders]

Is English not yer first language buddy. Quite a bit of difference between the words "facts" "theories" "clues" and "evidence".

My statements still stand quite credibly. Just because I said I learn towards a particular theory does not mean I embrace it and live my life as if it was fact or had "faith" in it. That wouldn't make me much of an agnostic.

And why are you saying cave drawings? This has not been bloody cave man era we are talking about. This is Babylonian times, Egyptian times with their hieroglyphs etc, and even up to the renaissance age are where these clues have been written/drawn/painted down and preserved.

So I have no idea why you are talking about cave drawings....Temples and Pyramids certainly are not caves and last time I checked the whole idea of "cavemen" still has not been proven just like most parts of the theory of evolution.

[Thikpis]

Is English not yer first language buddy.

It was but, given your self proclaimed credibility, now I am giving Klingon a real push. We're going to need some translators when the ships come back.