White Power.

[Drunken Monk]

I found this on the internet when I was innocently searching for norse mythology pictures - http://www.stormfront.org/forum/


Now I know people have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of belief and freedom of expression, this thread is not about debating those points.

What I'm more interested in is where white supremacists validate their ideology..I read threads on that forum about black panthers declaring Black Nationality and so declaring white superiority is perfectly acceptable. Surely they realise that the Black panther movement was an extremist reaction to the denying of civil rights to the African-American population? Surely they realise that Black panthers held slavery, dredgery, lynching and racial abuse as the key ideals they were striking out against. Granted, it was acceptible in the 1700s for black people to be subjugated because that was the social norm, but why do people today still think they are superior because of their race? Why do people today still think that certain races (such as the Jews) are conspiring against them and have a monopoly of power and follow a mass manipulation model? Why do some people still think today that race and not personal achievement, decency, intelligence and common sense, is a more relevant factor for judging people?


It's 2008..It's been 63 years since white supremacy and/or the aryan/nordic myth was supposed to have been eliminated from our cultures and societies. I myself am an Indian Aryan. In Hitler's racial structure, my race comes just below the Tutonic Aryans (blonde hair, blue eyes) and just above the Iranian Aryans. I personally loath claiming supremacy over anyone based on anything, least of all race. Are we as humans, still stuck on such segregationist lines?

PS : This thread is not intended to be racist in any way. If you aren't a white supremacist, you shouldn't take offence anyhow. But if you do take offence to anything, I'm sorry, that is not my intention, I just want to discuss this as far as I can. Also, if the mods think this is too topical, I guess just go ahead and delete it...

[Aeon]

OMG PLEASE SAY WE CAN CORRUPT THAT SITE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!
*jumps up and down!!**

back to serious talk....

all i can say is... WOW!

[Calienta]

I probably shouldn't go to that site at work so I will have a look when I get home.

[Lord Temujin]

I am volunteering to help corrupt it

Role call to all who want to join in wholesale war with white supremists..show those fuckers how to SPAM

O.o


Me..



<Uncle Jacx wants YOU :shakefist: :aye:>

[Aeon]

I've created a alt thread... so that we can seperate between... SD and plotting...
http://forum.oddthought.com/showthread.php?p=211839#post211839

sorry.....

But this site has really offended me and I think we need to shine a bit of humanity on them....
thankyou for posting drunken monk...

[wats_up]

There idiots. Theyve either been brainwashed by there parents who were brainwashed by there parents. Or theyre just plain stupid.
Although saying that I can understand having some national pride. But theres a certain point when it crosses the line.

[Drunken Monk]

I've created a alt thread... so that we can seperate between... SD and plotting...
http://forum.oddthought.com/showthread.php?p=211839#post211839

sorry.....

But this site has really offended me and I think we need to shine a bit of humanity on them....
thankyou for posting drunken monk...


Aeon it is because I detest these sort of ideals and this sort of mass recruitment that i posted it, so you're very welcome. People need to be well aware that bastards like this still exist in society and that we need to work together to bring them down. I've replied in your AIW section. I think it makes sense.

[HellRaiser]

I don't agree with most groups thoughts, beliefs, but as long as no violence is involved I don't care.
It is everyone's right to speak or believe as they wish, regardless of content.

In my honest opinion...

White Power or Aryan cliques will grow stronger and stronger as each year passes merely only for the reason that as societies grow larger with an influx of multiculturalism it breeds special interests group and that casues negative sentiments and breeds hatred. I believe this is happening all over North America for starters.


If I were you's I would be carefull with being a shit disturber or social hero of tolerance.
I know that most controversial organizations have people who are perfectly intelligent in all areas of structure.
It's these type of organizations that if some pose a threat to their agenda, would track ya down and kill you in your sleep lol.

[Doobz]

its bullshit, fuck them... its not about race its about who you are on the inside... to make this short and fucking simple, we all bleed red... corruption doobz is down for

[Smash Bros]

to be proud of your culture and heritage is fine but taking it to an extreme saying that cause of your skin colour makes you better is fucked up. hitler was doing something similar and was killed for it by a combined army of the worlds might. maybe it will happen again...

[Doobz]

hitler was doing something similar and was killed for it by a combined army of the worlds might.

correct me if im wrong... hitler killed himself in prison though, did he not?

[Trajedy001]

any person that decides to sabotage this forum.. yeah fuckin right!

they dont fuck with us, why we fuckin with them..

seems like a starting of shit there.

[Tca]

White Supremists can take a sugar coated lick of my white supremist hating nuts and then kill themselves by hanging.

The irony eh? :P

[Drunken Monk]

I don't agree with most groups thoughts, beliefs, but as long as no violence is involved I don't care.
It is everyone's right to speak or believe as they wish, regardless of content.

In my honest opinion...

White Power or Aryan cliques will grow stronger and stronger as each year passes merely only for the reason that as societies grow larger with an influx of multiculturalism it breeds special interests group and that casues negative sentiments and breeds hatred. I believe this is happening all over North America for starters.


If I were you's I would be carefull with being a shit disturber or social hero of tolerance.
I know that most controversial organizations have people who are perfectly intelligent in all areas of structure.
It's these type of organizations that if some pose a threat to their agenda, would track ya down and kill you in your sleep lol.


I already mentioned in my first post that this thread is not about the freedom of belief, choice or expression. Those people have the right to their beliefs. The discussion is about the merits of their beliefs.


I do agree with you that white power and Aryan cliques will grow stronger because of an influx of multi-culturism. But any sort of overtly strong expression of nationalism, propagation of one's own race or dampening of other races to me portrays an intense sense of insecurity and fear. These are the people who bitch and moan when an ethnic minority gets a better paid job than them, these are the people that bitch and moan when an ethnic minority gets a bigger house or a bigger car than them, these are the people that feel threatened when migrant popultions grow in their countries and believe that there are conspiracies against their race and peoples. This constant need for validation and positive re-inforcement just reduces their image drastically in my eyes, not to mention that most of them hold beliefs and ideals which are archaic and non-applicable to contemporaneous culture.

When the Aryans came to India, they founded the caste system. The Brahmins were placed at the top of the caste and the Shudra (or the untouchables as they are better known) were placed at the very bottom. This was done to maintain racial integrity. I myself am a Brahmin, but i rejectd this system a long time ago, as did most of my family for generations. I didn't undergo any "purification ceremonies" as the system mandates, neither do I follow any rigid principles. Thankfully, the caste system is also on it's way out of most aspects of Indian society and within 25-45 years, should be exterminated completely. People should be seen just as that, and not anything else.

I don't agree with most groups thoughts, beliefs, but as long as no violence is involved I don't care.
It is everyone's right to speak or believe as they wish, regardless of content.

Well you should care because this sort of belief system unchecked will spread like a disease in to all aspects of our society. Soon you'll have doctors, lawyers, engineers, civil servants, philosophers..even your local subway token dispenser, integrated in to the ideals of this racial myth. When people are looking for some sense of direction, and when they are looking for a reason to hate, it is unbelievably easy to indoctrinate them in to a false paradigm. Only active resistance to this will prevent it's spread.

[Drunken Monk]

correct me if im wrong... hitler killed himself in prison though, did he not?

No. Hitler committed suicide in the fuhrerbunker on Arpil 30, 1945 (although some people believe it was a day after). He did it by swallowing cyanide pills as well as shooting himself.

[Doobz]

No. Hitler committed suicide in the fuhrerbunker on Arpil 30, 1945 (although some people believe it was a day after). He did it by swallowing cyanide pills as well as shooting himself.

note my edit at the bottom of the page... right you are though monk... i wiki'd it, and did you know he even gave cyanide pills to his dog to make sure they were strong enough?

[Calienta]

I believe that groups like this start out discussing their views, ideas, hatred ... One thing leads to another and maybe some go too far and beat up a gay person or even kill him. Their vile attitudes aren't kept on an internet forum alone, these are people leading lives in this world ... Please don't tell me that the subjects of their detestation can't sense it in their interactions. They may not be so blatant about it but such an outlook surely can't be kept hidden (by any but the most accomplished sociopaths).

[EviLWaYz]

There idiots. Theyve either been brainwashed by there parents who were brainwashed by there parents. Or theyre just plain stupid.
Although saying that I can understand having some national pride. But theres a certain point when it crosses the line.

just out rite stupid if you ask me lol
:nods:

[HellRaiser]

I already mentioned in my first post that this thread is not about the freedom of belief, choice or expression. Those people have the right to their beliefs. The discussion is about the merits of their beliefs.

The merits of anything is always at polar ends when it comes to personal beliefs.
Individuals just as a finger print and life it'self is unique and subjective.
You can argue merits but in the end your merits to them is futile.

Well you should care because this sort of belief system unchecked will spread like a disease in to all aspects of our society. Soon you'll have doctors, lawyers, engineers, civil servants, philosophers..even your local subway token dispenser, integrated in to the ideals of this racial myth.

No I don't think so because in the end those with any sense of understanding of what humanity is, those with basic intelligence, nevermind higher intelligent level to hold those positions that make up social elite ladders wouldn't fall into such a silly mind trap. This persona or clique is attracted by those who have been beaten down by society, hard living, (already oddily enough and uncanny) been subjected to racial hatred of acts upon them by one or more groups. This makes that individual hate more and just ripe pickings by hate or racial groups.

When people are looking for some sense of direction, and when they are looking for a reason to hate, it is unbelievably easy to indoctrinate them in to a false paradigm. Only active resistance to this will prevent it's spread.

I agree with that but one must be carefull of active resistance, there are many that fill desert holes fighting against "causes" merely for what? nothing. None of this involves you's own family/friends or livelyhood. It's not society job to be defenders of social justice or any type of faith or right and wrong. This is law enforcement job to monitor if THEY SO WISH. If some have a problem with them notify your law enforcement agency, ( but I am sure most law enforcements already tracking these things online) taking matters in your own hands and being hero will almost certainly be your ultimate demise in the end. I don't truly think any of you understand the gravity of your actions thinking it is only online tinkering.

That is all!

[Condom]

You need to realize their point of view to understand why they live this way and what arguements they are making. As a person from Kansas, I am a member of similar, non-extremist think tanks and npo's. The reason these people have an argument is first of all because of their leadership. The leaders of these groups are all rich men who fear change because they fear losing their money. They use the 20% saturation point, a societal theory about when 20% of the population is the minority the majority will rise against to bring them down. The leaders use propaganda to move mass numbers of highly uneducated individuals and to unite people who have been victimized by many of these other races. I personally believe that they have a good argument but an uneffective method to their delivery. Mostly, whites are tired of BET and affirmitive action. Whites do not like this urban counterculture that other races have created and want America to get back to its traditional values of family and hard work. They see these other races as lazy and incompetent, unwilling to help themselves. Much like they did the irish when they first came to America and 40 years later they had a President. The other races need to learn from the irish and certain other groups of how to excape this undeniable form of economic slavery and they need to leave behind the disallusions of being a NBA millionaire or rapper. Get an education and whites would be much more tolerant. i know this is not fully explanatory and i can answer any questions that ya'll have. P.S. i'm not a racist, i dont believe in a supremicy of races. i just believe that many people of other races whine when they should do something.

[Smash Bros]

ahh so a rich black man that plays basketball and earsn money that way should stop playing basketball, go get a "real" job and an education so that "white" people will respect them more??

what about the millions of white people that already respect them?? what about the millions of white people that want to be like him/her for the simple reason of playing basketball as a pro??

are you overlooking the fact that to get into the NBA you need to be playing college ball first?? and to stay in these teams the coachs set a grade point average that they need to stay above??

you being from kanas, having that flag as an avartar and then spewing this shit forth makes you a racist.

admin (i know your readin KS) can we remove his avartar as i find it offensive and if i posted something denoucning whites (like the black panther shit awhile ago) it would of been bitched about.

[Condom]

first of all, i did not denounce NBA players, i denounced the illusion that this is a good possibility for many youths. They work at this goal so hard that many of them forget about what is really going to set them free, education. It is nearly impossible to become an NBA player as only 1% can. If i could play NBA i would've but i wasn't blessed with the necessary skills and i opted for an education. All i was trying to say is that they should not pollute their children with these aspirations sooooo heavily and should emphasize education. Second, the Flag of the greater state of South Carolina and a symbol of history should not be offensive to anyone as i do not "hate" any race. A symbol of my heritage should not be offensive.

[Smash Bros]

so if i was to post a picture of the nazi sign and say that historically it was a good symbol (before hitler) that would be fine??

actually it was done before. they were banned and the picture was deleted.

those "dellusions" are what keep many of those kids off of the street and alive. why should they be denied the chance to dream?? white people dream aswell. should we not allow them to dream??

fuck it lets not allow anyone to dream. and then tell everyone that we need to get an "education" to succeed in life. fuck we dont need shit kickers as the educated would then do it. but wait they would want better jobs as it would bring a better lifestyle. which would then lower the income of those jobs and then lower the value of an education.

[Calienta]

Second, the Flag of the greater state of South Carolina and a symbol of history should not be offensive to anyone as i do not "hate" any race. A symbol of my heritage should not be offensive.

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue of your avatar - the Confederate Flag has always had issues surrounding it, surely you can't be ignorant of that. Why, even on Dukes of Hazzard the boys got trashed by folks who thought the flag on the General Lee was symbolising racism, when to the boys all it meant was rebellion against the government :)

[Condom]

Although it does keep many of them off the streets as youth, it is not a long term sollution. many of them end up on the streets post high school and fall into the revolving door of unemployement. our society, unfortunately, is one where it is almost a must to have a college degree. it is okay to aspire to be something and certainly to dream but what i am aruing is that their efforts should be atleast split and focused on an education as well. Their parents should not be looking to free load of their child and giving them the notions that it is garunteed that they will be in that 1%. education is the key to abolishing their current state of poverty and a means to end the negative impressions and stereotypes.

as for the avatar. The confederate flag is not a symbol of hate is i think it is unfair to compare it to the swastika. No one can deny that the nazis committed mass genocide and had no desire to help the other race to help themselves. Anyways though, the American Civil War was not a fight over slavery. This war was fought over centralized power and the belief that there shuold not be a tyrannical central government. This was derived from the fear that it the President would end up being a monarchy and much like England's. I celebrate the confederate flag not because of its negative connotations to slavery, which i aknowledge, but for its symbolism of removing the power from the central government and returning it to the states and more directly to the people in which the constitution was written for.

[Smash Bros]

firstly dont double post. use the edit feature.

secondly

if they didnt practice ball and instead studied then there would be no 1% to play ball. it is because they practice all the time that they are able to succeed in the game. education is over rated anyways. in this day and age it is not what you know but who you know in most jobs. yeah some it is what you know but the majority isnt.

playing ball is a great past time and relieves stress and lowers the obesity rate aswell as it is a phsyical sport. the more youths that play it means the less fat people that are in america. yes not all make it and some still end up on the street but that isnt due to being un educated at all. it is from making stupid choices.

and what about the white kids that end up on the street?? is it cause they are also un educated?? or did they play too many sports and not have time for school??

yes parents could make it more even between schooling and sport but it aint gonna happen. forcing a child to do something that they dont want to makes them focus less on what you want them to do. and letting them also do what they want they will put more energy into what you want as they are still allowed to do the shit that they want

[Trajedy001]

wow, man, u gettin all heavy 'bout it and shit


_- A_A
-_ <-> (whistle)

[Condom]

we have gotten a bit off topic and that is alright. you make some good points. there are white kids that take this path as well and that is just as unfortunate to me as it is for other raced kids. i agree with the obesity factor as that is a major issue in our society today and i agree that largely choices shape your future and it is too bad that choices while made as a youngster have such a great effect on your life. i agree that many times it is not what you know but who you know as well. i didnt get into grad school because i had a high gpa or bc i was exceptionally gifted at school, i got there because i became very good friends with the professor on the inquiry board and my father had close ties to the school aka donating money. i have been blessed and consider myself a full member of the lucky sperm club but all this is beside the point. i am actively seeking alternatives or means for a race that has proven they are capable of achieving great heights to escape the constant and bitter tormenting that they have gotten from primarily the white race. the point of this discussion was to either discuss white supremicists or to what i have turned it into the inability of races to excape poverty.

[Kloaked Spirit]

P.S. i'm not a racist, i dont believe in a supremicy of races. i just believe that many people of other races whine when they should do something.

Somehow, I think this P.S. is far more of a cover your ass strategy than anything else. I'm sure you didn't really state anything about race...

Mostly, whites are tired of BET and affirmitive action.

Sources. I could imagine something being pulled about affirmative action, I want to see where you get the information that says white people are tired of BET.

Whites do not like this urban counterculture that other races have created and want America to get back to its traditional values of family and hard work.

Plenty of white people are perfectly fine with the urban culture. They are not immune to having to deal with "the ghetto" or any other shortcomings of financial life. Also don't forget the fine "trailer trash" life of good ol' whitey.

They see these other races as lazy and incompetent, unwilling to help themselves.

No... you see the other races as lazy and incompetent. Do not speak for all white members of society with such blanket statements on what "white people" believe. I see plenty of white people who are far more lazy and incompetent than people of other races.

Plus, doesn't that sort of viewpoint seem like the races are somehow, oh I don't know, inferior to white people? Nah. That must've been a mistype. You just said you weren't thinking white people were superior to other races.

Much like they did the irish when they first came to America and 40 years later they had a President.

Ok, there's two issues with this. Issue number 1, even if you want to consider the "Irish" as a race separate from being white/black/hispanic/oriental/etc, there's still the fact that we have a non-white candidate who has the best shot of being the president. So apparently other cultures have been on the road to mimicing the Irish very well.

Secondly, where is your historical reference for this? What are we calling "40 years later" and what are we calling "Irish president?" Technically, the first president of any Irish decent actually came before the Great Famine, but we'd have to assume that some Irish people came over sometime after America was founded. Hell, I think it'd be safe to say that some Irish people were around before America was founded, which means they were in the area well beyond this 40 year mark.

However, If you're looking at "Irish" as being "Catholic Irish" ancestry, that didn't occur until Ronald Reagan, roughly 130 years later after the massive exodus from Ireland to America.

The other races need to learn from the irish and certain other groups of how to excape this undeniable form of economic slavery and they need to leave behind the disallusions of being a NBA millionaire or rapper.

Are you serious? All people have dreams of grandeur and excelling to heights which they will probably never obtain regardless of race.

Get an education and whites would be much more tolerant.

My irony detector read this sentence, and then blew up from data overload. Didn't your PS state that you don't believe in the supremacy of the white people over other races? Then why make the statement about what needs to be done for white people to upgrade their viewpoints to "tolerate" other races?

So no, you're not believing that there's a superior race. You just believe that other races are lazy and incompetent, sit around and watch BET while they spit rhymes or shoot hoops as a career goal while relying on affirmative action to get their actual job. You feel that they should be motivated to harder work and getting an education so white people can "tolerate" them. But no, there's no superior tone here.

------------------------

As far as the avatar goes, I will let it remain for now. However, do not be surprised if another staff member decides to take it off for you as issues such as that are completely subjective.

[Trajedy001]

wow kloaked, its been a while since i seen you get hyphy about anything..

its good to see affirmation in the high ranks.

[Condom]

okay, you posted a lot soo i'm going to have a lot of edits on this and i preapologize (made up word, i'm assuming that since we are having an educated debate that we arent going to resort to tearing down each others english mistakes).

P.S. i'm not a racist, i dont believe in a supremicy of races. i just believe that many people of other races whine when they should do something.

Somehow, I think this P.S. is far more of a cover your ass strategy than anything else. I'm sure you didn't really state anything about race...

i'm not trying to cover my ass, i am merely presenting another side of the argument. i do not necessarily believe everything that i am saying, just playing a bit of devils advocate. if you would have read my first statement, you would have known that i stated in order to understand where the white supremicists came from you had to first understand their point of view and their argument. sooo i was trying to state that i am not a racist, bc i am not. in this entire discussion i am presenting a point of view and highly generalizing. please do not take my statements as fact for all of one race or another.

Quote:
Mostly, whites are tired of BET and affirmitive action.

Sources. I could imagine something being pulled about affirmative action, I want to see where you get the information that says white people are tired of BET.


Quote:
Whites do not like this urban counterculture that other races have created and want America to get back to its traditional values of family and hard work.

Plenty of white people are perfectly fine with the urban culture. They are not immune to having to deal with "the ghetto" or any other shortcomings of financial life. Also don't forget the fine "trailer trash" life of good ol' whitey.


again this is a generalization and it is an example of something that is meant to show the unfairness of the race card which some races feel the need to pull more often than others. if there was a WET, which is all of television anyways, the NAACP would go crazy. i agree that no race is immune to economic hardships, there must me a poor class and a capitalist society.


Quote:
They see these other races as lazy and incompetent, unwilling to help themselves.

No... you see the other races as lazy and incompetent. Do not speak for all white members of society with such blanket statements on what "white people" believe. I see plenty of white people who are far more lazy and incompetent than people of other races.

Plus, doesn't that sort of viewpoint seem like the races are somehow, oh I don't know, inferior to white people? Nah. That must've been a mistype. You just said you weren't thinking white people were superior to other races.


in this statement i was refering more towards white suprimicists and others who have this viewpoint, i am by no means saying all white people. i also agree that there are white people who are incompetent and lazy. this is something that i do not wish for any person of any race. again, what i think and my arguement are two different things. like i said before and you must have failed to read is that i am a member of think tanks trying to figure out a solution to the problem of racism and who does not necessarily agree that the problem is one sided on the part of whites. it is a multifaceted problem that is plagueing America. i am not speaking on behalf of all white people.


Quote:
Much like they did the irish when they first came to America and 40 years later they had a President.

Ok, there's two issues with this. Issue number 1, even if you want to consider the "Irish" as a race separate from being white/black/hispanic/oriental/etc, there's still the fact that we have a non-white candidate who has the best shot of being the president. So apparently other cultures have been on the road to mimicing the Irish very well.

Secondly, where is your historical reference for this? What are we calling "40 years later" and what are we calling "Irish president?" Technically, the first president of any Irish decent actually came before the Great Famine, but we'd have to assume that some Irish people came over sometime after America was founded. Hell, I think it'd be safe to say that some Irish people were around before America was founded, which means they were in the area well beyond this 40 year mark.

However, If you're looking at "Irish" as being "Catholic Irish" ancestry, that didn't occur until Ronald Reagan, roughly 130 years later after the massive exodus from Ireland to America.


Quote:
The other races need to learn from the irish and certain other groups of how to excape this undeniable form of economic slavery and they need to leave behind the disallusions of being a NBA millionaire or rapper.

Are you serious? All people have dreams of grandeur and excelling to heights which they will probably never obtain regardless of race.


to first adress this i consider the Irish as a people who came to America, in mass, and were highly discriminated much like other races in the U.S. secondly, i do not believe that Obama has much of a shot at winning the Presidency as there is a highly debated theory that the exit polls could be wrong. Note when i say this i am not stating it as fact or as wrong. The theory amongst political scientists is that when Americans are asked whether or not they would vote for Obama, most will say yes because they do not want the person who says no to voting for a black person. They claim that social norms discourage people from answering the poll to what they truly will do. This has happened before in American politics and could be the case here. I'm not saying that it is. To adress my statement about an Irish President, the first Irish President was John Kennedy and this was roughly 40 or so years after the mass exodus from Ireland. Not Ronald Reagan. To adress the last point posted above, i have already agreed that dreams are good and that every race has them. what i was referring to were the disillusionments that parents give to their children, which happens in every race but seems to be more prevelant in the black community, and that they press this as their only way out of poverty. this i believe is the form of slavery that the Reagan administration created. I learned this from an African American studies course in is another debatable theory.


Quote:
Get an education and whites would be much more tolerant.

My irony detector read this sentence, and then blew up from data overload. Didn't your PS state that you don't believe in the supremacy of the white people over other races? Then why make the statement about what needs to be done for white people to upgrade their viewpoints to "tolerate" other races?

So no, you're not believing that there's a superior race. You just believe that other races are lazy and incompetent, sit around and watch BET while they spit rhymes or shoot hoops as a career goal while relying on affirmative action to get their actual job. You feel that they should be motivated to harder work and getting an education so white people can "tolerate" them. But no, there's no superior tone here.


I think i have already adressed this. see above.


I would like to thank everyone participating in this debate for not dropping to the level of idiots and begin the name calling and other insults about proper english, etc... This is a good debate we have going and i feel that America would be better off if everyone participated in such debates to find a greater truth rather than trying to win the arguement. Again, i will respond to any flaws you see in my arguement and please remember that i am mostly playing devils advocate in this arguement as i am fully capable of arguing the other side as well. i do not mind criticism of anything that i say and a will gladly concede to good points.

Now back to a new point of the arguement. What can we really do to end racism? this is the question we ask ourselves every week when we have the think tank meetings. To first adress this question we must admit that there is a problem and get passed to social norms of not admitting that it is not only whites with the problem. To better understand the situation there has to be two sides to the arguement, in this case i am on the side of whites and ya'll are on the side of other races. It is a healthy debate that has to happen and is essential to curing the disease of racism. The solution will never be found as long as we go on blaming whites for the problem, we have to find concessions on both sides. We need to strive towards understanding one another and communication is the only method to start this process. I think we can all agree that everyone is created equal and that everyone would be much happier on an even playing field. Yes, there will always be people who hate the other race but it is not only whites who hate blacks, there are many blacks who hate whites and both could be justified in their hatred.

[Smash Bros]

thanks KS. your better at this shit then me :D

your other side of the argument is making you sound racist. if you did not believe these views then why state them?? to play devils advocate then you would first need to be able to present both points of view instead of arguing for just 1 side.

Hellraiser plays devul advocate alot around here and he usually doe a good job, although some times is a complete cunt.

[Condom]

don't stoop to name calling... that is inappropriate. i have already adressed why my avatar is not offensive but don't mind doing it again. The confederate flag is a symbol of decentralization. i feel that our government is taking over the individuals life and power should be restored to the states which correlates with returning the power to the people. This is in no way a symbol of hate and is sponsored as a portion of the state flag of the greater state of South Carolina. Should we ban their flag? that would be a bit extreme...

[Grendel]

A simple question, out of curiousity... Why do you use a portion of the state flag of South Carolina as your avatar instead of the flag of Arkansas, Mississippi, or one of the other 'southern' states? Better yet, why not a portion of your own states flag?

[Condom]

read above... this would be the third time i've explained it and i am too tired to do it again.

[Grendel]

Odd that you keep insisting it's part of South Carolina's state flag... When the only state flag that's extant and includes the confederate battle flag is Mississipi - one of the states I mentioned and yet you failed to pick up on that. Though to be fair, Georgia's flag still incorporates the original stars and bars of the confederacy.

SC's state flag is a silver palm tree and moon on a blue background.

http://www.netstate.com/state_flags.htm

[Smash Bros]

i didnt call you names at all. i stated a fact about another user.

and grendal has it right.

your using apart of a flag that is associated with racism and here you are arguing on behalf of white people?? not meaning to be an arse or anything but it seems fishy

[coalition]

I see nothing wrong with the avator of the confederate flag myself. As i'm sure alot born in the south feel the same way on the matter. It's a historical flag. The Confederate Battle Flag represents all Southern, and even Northern, Confederates regardless of race or religion and is the symbol of less government, less taxes, and the right of the people to govern themselves. Reason the civil war was fought. The north wanted to tax the south.

[Drunken Monk]

Well I'm glad to see people getting passionate about this topic finally.

KS as always you've made some supreme points against some pseudo-intellectual, baseless and honestly tasteless arguments. As far as being relevant to the original topic is concerned, HellRaiser made some really good arguments which i agree with on certain levels and i admire his forthright views on this.


As far as our new member "condom" is concerned, mate you're chatting grade A horse bollocks. If we are to believe what you say then firstly a majority of the white population resents all forms of other races and has a bone to pick with most of them. From what you've said either white people hate ethnic minorities because they are "lazy" and "uneducated" or they hate them because they feel "threatened" that their wealth is going to be compromised by their communities. So basically you're directly contradicting yourself on more than one count OR you're implying that the only way their wealth will be at risk is if the ethnic minorities rob or plunder them.


Then as KS rightly pointed out, you put a little tag at the end of your illustrious speeach saying "PS I'm not racist". Sorry, mate you couldn't possibly be any more racist even if you were trying! Saying the things you've said and speaking like you do, the connatations are quite obvious. You are exactly the kind of person that would bitch and moan when you see a black person on the road wearing baggy jeans and a skull cap, but would turn around and use the old "black people are stealing all our jobs and opportunities" if he got an education and put himself through college and then got employed by a corporation. Before you come in here thinking that you're making some solid points and arguments, THINK first.


Oh and for all of those that think the flag on his dp isn't offensive, lookie what i just found :

http://www.klisia.net/blog/swastika.png
But hey it's cool, I'm not racist! I'm only saying I like the icon. Get my point?

[Condom]

this is getting old... ya'll are just making me restate things i have already written. i am generalizing the arguements of white supremicists. i am not speaking on behalf of all white people nor do i claim to be speaking on the majority. for the second time, it is not fair to compare the nazi swastika with the stars and bars of the confederacy. the largest mass genocide in the history of our world is not comparable. for the fourth time, the confederate flag is a symbol of decentralization and returning the power to the poeple with a limited government. i choose south carolina as we have a house there. Also, south carolina is the only one that is arguing my point in front of courts. This has happened a couple of times but to my knowledge the most recent was when the NCAA banned any championship games in the state so long as they had the stars and bars in their flag. The courts upheld the NCAA's decision.

[Grendel]

You've repeatedly stated that your avatar is part of the State Flag of South Carolina. It isn't, and your repeated insistance that it is makes you appear ill-informed at best.

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj314/Grendel90/sc_fi.gif

THAT is the state flag of South Carolina. While the confederate battle flag can be seen by some as a symbol of decentralisation from government, returning power to the people, the fact remains that the confederacy wished to keep a sizeable amount of it's population as slaves based on nothing more than their race. Therefore the confederate battle flag and indeed all the other flags of the confederacy will always be regarded as symbols of racism...

[Condom]

the south did want to keep the slaves, this is true, but you seem to think that this was only the sentiments of the south. the north didn't care about slavery and most wanted to keep them until they realized that it would financially cripple the confederates war funds. the slaves were, in my opinion, THE reason America is what it is today. they established the economic foundation to the U.S. hegemon.

[Grendel]

Sure people think of slavery when you mention the ACW... The point remains that of the two flags in that war only one is associated with a policy of keeping one set of people subjugated due to their race.

And your statement that slavery made the US what it is today? Absolute rubbish, IMO. Any nation that relies on the subjugation of others for it's ecomomic prosperity is always doomed to fail.


Addition:

I notice that you haven't acknowledged my post about the South Carolina state flag...

[Drunken Monk]

Sure people think of slavery when you mention the ACW... The point remains that of the two flags in that war only one is associated with a policy of keeping one set of people subjugated due to their race.
And your statement that slavery made the US what it is today? Absolute rubbish, IMO. Any nation that relies on the subjugation of others for it's ecomomic prosperity is always doomed to fail.


Addition:

I notice that you haven't acknowledged my post about the South Carolina state flag...


Condom, the Americans on here will fucking lynch you for saying things like that. I couldn't agree with you more Grendel, the State flag of South Carolina has in no way anything to do with what that dude's avatar is and yes what these idiots seem to forget is that even though the icon doesn't necessarily have racist and or inflamatory directions, the implications associated with it are always there.

Also, USA was NOT founded on the back of slavery. It was founded on fundamental ideals that YOU aren't complying with condom, so as far as i'm concerned, not only are you chatting shit, you're anti-american as well.

In my last post i said i like the swastika...i did not say anything about liking the NSDAP or Hitler's ideals, but if you didn't know me better, would you really believe that what i'm saying is credible? No you muppet, because it's not! Because icons have associations with them which cannot be avoided.

[Smash Bros]

condom there are some extremely intelligent people on here. all of them can argue points against you. we have had practice lol.

[Sir Brian]

I disagree completely with the views of the people on that site.
However, what i disagree with just as strongly is people creating a movement to bring a "downfall" to this site. These people have the right to an opinion and if we try to opress people of their opinion then this can only lead to a worse off situation. Leave these people to their racist views on that site, it is better they get their grievances out there than elsewhere.

To be perfectly honest Aeon you are pathetic, giving these racists such attention, if it offends you do not read it. Starting a "group vendetta" is laughable.


Power to the Notts Race!! :popcorn:

[Kloaked Spirit]

I am not going to get a chance to reply to the full thing as I'm on vacation, and wouldn't give it the credibility it deserves. However condom I did read what you said in response so far, and this part is completely incorrect:

To adress my statement about an Irish President, the first Irish President was John Kennedy and this was roughly 40 or so years after the mass exodus from Ireland. Not Ronald Reagan.

The mass exodus from Ireland to America that history refers to occurred as a result of the Potato Blight and the famine that followed. This occurred back in the 1840's, nearly 120 years prior to John Kennedy being president. As for the rest of it, I'll address it when I'm not on vacation (assuming the thread is still kicking by then.)

[JaiJai]

In my last post i said i like the swastika...i did not say anything about liking the NSDAP or Hitler's ideals, but if you didn't know me better, would you really believe that what i'm saying is credible? No you muppet, because it's not! Because icons have associations with them which cannot be avoided.


Agreed!

There is a great debate as to what the swastika means now. For 3,000 years, the swastika meant life and good luck. But because of the Nazis, it has also taken on a meaning of death and hate.

This is information I found while researching it:

The swastika...while used by the Nazi's while in the process of mass murder...is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years.

Up until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II


Artifacts such as pottery and coins from ancient Troy show that the swastika was a commonly used symbol as far back as 1000 BCE.

During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika was used by many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe. By the Middle Ages, the swastika was a well known, if not commonly used, symbol but was called by many different names. Germans were using the swastika symbol as early as the late 1800s.

It wasn't until In 1920, Adolf Hitler decided that the Nazi Party needed its own insignia and flag. For Hitler, the new flag had to be "a symbol of our own struggle" as well as "highly effective as a poster." And On August 7, 1920, at the Salzburg Congress, this flag became the official emblem of the Nazi Party.


Sure the symbol now has painful memories to some... but in reality, before Hitler corrupted it... it was a very positive and oftentimes religious symbol as well.

FYI