All Black University

[JaiJai]

First read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/16/white.valedictorian/index.html


then my question is this:


Why is there an All black university like this? And during my reading I discovered there's several all black schools. I'm just curious why that's not considered discrimination, since it would most definitely be if we had All white schools. Any Ideas?

Discuss

[TJ60]

It's always been wrong in my POV, but they do take white students. Virginia State University actually let white student take classes for free for awhile.

[hoos]

It's always been wrong in my POV, but they do take white students. Virginia Commonwealth University actually let white student take classes for free for awhile.

Must have been WAY back in the day, or you are thinking of Virginia State or Virginia Union. They are both prodominately black schools and usually you can get a minority scholarship to go there. VUU is were Ben Wallace went to school.

[TJ60]

Yes I meant Virginia State. Thanks

[Spork!!!]

Im amazed that anywhere had "all black" universities 141 years ago! Makes me question what the agenda was originally, were they offering the same quality education as the "white" schools? I'd imagine that the big uni's were fairly exclusively "white" back when this one was set up.
I congratulate the (white) student involved. He seems to have an interest in African culture and history, (and chicks) so what better place? I think he had real guts. I'd never willingly put myself in that (minority) position. I don't think he was just "making a point", not for the entire course of study.
As we move into the 21st century I find it a little sad that there is such a lack of integration of different races and religions in so much of our society, although if a Muslim prays at a mosque and a Catholic in a church I suppose they may have differing educational requirements for their kids. Not doing anything to close the gap of understanding and promote tolerence though.
When they put me in charge, all places of worship will be multidenominational, all schools multicultural, and tax on beer will be removed. I might even amend the marriage laws so you have to mix either race or religion. In a couple of generations the world would be brown and happy.

[steff]

It's in the same way there is all Catholic schools but Protestants just get regular schools. In Glasgow sectarianism of the two is a problem but the Scottish government fail to see this as a big problem. Instead they target Protestant marches (not the Catholic ones). You'd think the Monarchy were hardline Catholic the way the Scottish government act. SAY NO TO THE SNP! :D

Anyway, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I doubt an all white school would be allowed so why should this?

[Grendel]

Same thing happens everywhere if you look into it. We have schools that teach entirely in Welsh - no English lessons, yet the English-speaking schools still have to teach Welsh.

Addition: Was I the only one that immediately thought this was about a Rugby school in NZ?

[Drunken Monk]

Well the reason there are all black schools like this is quite simple. Generally in schools, there have often been criticisms as to the teaching curriculum or syllabus being focused around pre-dominantly white culture. A perfect example of this is "Black history month". Now I don't think it's possible that black history can be summed up into a course lasting a month. White culture, white history as well as mainstream language codes are used in schools and hence it would be only natural for the black community to feel often segregated. All black schools could simply be a reaction to this. I would strongly disagree if in these institutions, any form of racism was being strengthened or furthered. But typically if this sort of facility is following a curriculum more centred around topics more relevant to black people, I don't see a particular problem with it. Therefore it would be a natural assumption that since the focal point is black history/culture that only black people would be interested in learning it. However I do feel that white people and people from other races should also be allowed to explore this field if they have a sincere interest in it. I suppose in a way the black community could be safe-guarding their interests and their heritage in a way they see fit and justifiable by posting the "black only" tag to their resepctive institutions.

On another level it could be due to the antagonism that existed pre-civil rights movement, and even during. It's no big secret that black people were discriminated against in educational facilities which bore the "Whites only" tag as well. So "black only" institutions could be a reactionary measure to that form of socially devisive attitude that existed in those times. Although in a modern context it is highly inappropriate because institutionalised racism is a thing of the past. Ofcourse exceptions do occur and you do see cases of severe racial tention but thankfully it is no longer the norm. Then again one could argue that "black schools" aren't the norm either and hence could be socially acceptable.

In my personal view, as long as all black schools are not preaching seperatism and racial hatred, it is fine for them to be exploring and propagating their own histories, contexts, culure and social heroes. As long as it is limited ofcourse to educational purposes and does not carry racially motivated undertones.

Just my two cents.

[HellRaiser]

All this is is yet again another special interest group playing the card.
How it can be justified legally is ridicolous in my opinion.
Maybe we should just have have schools for every denomination.
Forget all about broad learning and mixing of diversity for understanding.
Let's all just separate and blindly pretend it's not really about division of racial tendencies.

[Drunken Monk]

All this is is yet again another special interest group playing the card.
How it can be justified legally is ridicolous in my opinion.
Maybe we should just have have schools for every denomination.
Forget all about broad learning and mixing of diversity for understanding.
Let's all just separate and blindly pretend it's not really about division of racial tendencies.


Read post above :hehe:

[HellRaiser]

Read post above :hehe:

Ya but you spent too much time saying all that to my few lines hehehe. ;)

[Drunken Monk]

Ya but you spent too much time saying all that to my few lines hehehe. ;)


I was in a debating mood then! :D But I can be bone lazy sometimes too! Ref : Standford Prison Study thread :hehe: Although I will get around to it very soon.

[Tony The Tiger]

You make a pretty good point. I think the main reason this is happening, is because All black universities were very popular back then, because of the discrimination. Now, I'm guessing some of those schools just "haven't" changed, or what not. It's either that, or they are discriminating.

[Jacx]

First read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/16/white.valedictorian/index.html


then my question is this:


Why is there an All black university like this? And during my reading I discovered there's several all black schools. I'm just curious why that's not considered discrimination, since it would most definitely be if we had All white schools. Any Ideas?

Discuss

probably reminents of this stuff: http://www.watson.org/~lisa/blackhistory/early-civilrights/brown.html

remember it was normal to have segrigated schools...even in the last 60 years...the original black schools have not had the funding nor class to catch up as quick as the established "white schools"

Think about it, which parents..after the deal was done and schools were to mix colours and races...which white parents would want to send their white kids to what was a black school?? parents with money? no, the poor parents MAYBE over time.

Even with the changes, funding is often targeted and resentment is still felt, these all black schools often rely on older black seniors who have made their money to fund them... think about then..and now...change is not as quick as u think!

It's in the same way there is all Catholic schools but Protestants just get regular schools. In Glasgow sectarianism of the two is a problem but the Scottish government fail to see this as a big problem. Instead they target Protestant marches (not the Catholic ones). You'd think the Monarchy were hardline Catholic the way the Scottish government act. SAY NO TO THE SNP! :D

Anyway, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I doubt an all white school would be allowed so why should this?

Yes very good point..if colour is not a valid argument..why is religion?

Same thing happens everywhere if you look into it. We have schools that teach entirely in Welsh - no English lessons, yet the English-speaking schools still have to teach Welsh.

Addition: Was I the only one that immediately thought this was about a Rugby school in NZ?

sme as steffy really!

How many of you actually look this stuff up.

Im a brit, i look up london becuase thats where im from, i got the choice to send my kids to different schools.

I checked...i could send them to a All catholic school, a all jewish school, all islamic school yadda yadda.

so whats the difference between a all black school...and a religious school...well religion means all colours..yay for them..however becuase i dont go to church or pray 5 times a day im fucked and not allowed in!

Whos worse...the all black school..or the relgious school??

anyway this is just for debate and im interested in the replys.

Oh i did a lil more research about all black schools, here is one of em...

The Piney Woods Country Life School (or The Piney Woods School) is a co-educational (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-educational) independent historically African-American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American) boarding school (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boarding_school) for grades 9-12 in Piney Woods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piney_Woods%2C_Mississippi), Mississippi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi). It is one of four remaining historically African-American boarding schools in the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States). It is currently the largest African-American boarding school, as well as being the oldest continually operating African-American boarding school.

read the rest here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piney_Woods_Country_Life_School

2 key things...it is one of FOUR meaning for a country as large as the us...thats not a lot!! and 2 its a historic school...its old...its steeped in tradition..it was created back when they were FORCED to have all black and white schools by the white leaders. It created a neich for itself..and when things changed it decided to carry on...much like the religious schools of today.

Think before anyone judges!

[JaiJai]

Nice reply, valid points John... and I do understand why there are all black schools from this angle...

However, my main point is this: On one hand blacks are shouting they want equal rights... and if there were All white schools, the NAACP would be right on top of it...yet on the other hand they want exclusion, such as all black schools, all black television awards, all black music channels, all black miss america pageants, all black college funds, etc... Yet if white people tried this... again, there'd be an outcry of racism. It's confusing when there are double standards, and changes of agenda such as this.

Ya know.. I've said this before... Slavery, while tragic, cruel and unfortunate, ended 150 years ago... and was well beyond OUR control. And slavery was only one of Many horrific crimes against humanity as well.

One of the worst that comes to mind, aside from the holocaust, is the mutilation of civilians in the democratic republic of congo, yes...in Africa no less. Of course there's the Iran revolutionary guard... murdering thousands of it's own citizens... there's the rapes, murders, torture, and forced labor committed by the Burmese military, (US owned Chevrons partner) while putting in the burma pipeline.. What about the displacement of people from the rainforests..what about the native americans, who had their land and lives taken from them? ... Oh the list goes on and on.

Point is.. As a civilized and "humanitarian" country, do we owe the victims of all these crimes for centuries to come? Well do we?? Yes, slavery was held in THIS country, (as well as many others)... and Yes we owed a debt to these victimes...But c'mon after 150 years, and many many laws that GIVE back to the black people...how can they validly throw slavery in our faces anymore?

I don't think white people hate black people as much as they are sick and tired of getting the slavery issue thrown in our faces constantly.. their threats of racism lawsuits...and the blatant disrespect the black communities (ON A WHOLE, Not Individuals) give to the white people of this country.

[Dai]

I went to a Scottish catholic school and I just think there is no place for religion taught in that way in schools. In fact, my school then relocated to be on the same campus as the local non-denominational (known as protestant to us, lol) school - it was ideal - much less far to go for the fights - the council really dropped the ball on that one, IMO - they had the opportunity to join the schools together and caved in, carving the school in half with some shared facilities - ridiculous.

I think it's important to learn about various different religions as these are an important part of life for many people, but being taught that one way is the only true way is just BS.

I thought one of the great things about the U.S. was that the teaching of religion in schools was banned - is that correct? However, I would hope that did not mean banning teaching about religions in an objective way.

[JaiJai]

Ok Ok.. I got off subject :$


Anyways... I still don't believe there should all black universities anymore than there should be all white ones, even though I do understand some of the reasoning as to why they exist. If that makes sense :rolleyes:

I think everyone should learn to co exist together as people...not divide due to color or nationality. Of course there are cultural differences..and that will never change..but why can't different cultures exist and accept each other as they are rather than hate on each other simply because they are different!?
London was the coolest city, because there are so many different people from different cultures there, and they not only accept each other, but embrace each other and learn from them... that's how it should be imo.

[Calienta]

I thought one of the great things about the U.S. was that the teaching of religion in schools was banned - is that correct? However, I would hope that did not mean banning teaching about religions in an objective way.

I don't know about the US but in Canada there are Catholic schools. In my old high school there was no specific religion taught because it was a regular school.

[Jacx]

Ahh I just teased resa about this a min ago..thus i Shall post it...good thing she made breakfast BEFORE this convo :P

some points shall we...this is a convo about all BLACK collages!

right my lil tigers, i quote the following:

"This weekend he'll be the first white valedictorian to graduate from the historically black, all male Morehouse College in the school's 141-year history."

thats right historically black..not only black..not all black..historically...the whole bloody point is..he is white and in the school..so its not a ALL black :P

lets quote some more:

"I think that it should be a wake-up call to an all black campus," says Muhammad. "At Morehouse we're supposed to be at the top as black men. We only have a few white students and to see a white student will rise to this - is something unsettling to me because it shows that we need to work harder."
Campus administrators say that black or white, Packwood's experience is consistent with the school's mission: to produce future leaders.
"I think some of our alumni are a little nervous about a white student graduating from Morehouse with all of its rich history for producing African-American male leaders. But I don't think it's contradictory at all," says Sterling Hudson, the dean of admissions.
Overall, Packwood says his experience is the best proof of Morehouse success, because the school was able to produce a white valedictorian - against the odds. He's eager to quote the school's most notable alums.
"What Morehouse stands for at the end of the day, and what Dr. King epitomized, it's not about black or white, it's about the content of [a person's] character," says Packwood. "It's about me, representing Morehouse in that light -- not as a white man or a black man."
His experience was so positive that Packwood's younger brother, John, will follow in his footsteps when he enrolls as a freshman at the college next year.

"We're not aggressively pursuing white students," says Hudson. "But like every other college, we're interested in diversity. So, if a white student becomes interested in Morehouse - of course we are going to treat him like any other student."
For now, Packwood is enjoying his rise to the top. This week, he started his first job with the prestigious investment banking firm Goldman Sachs on Wall Street.
But he'll be back at Morehouse Sunday wearing his cap and gown along with the 500 members of his graduating class. Not as a white man or a black man - but as a Morehouse Man.

"The interesting thing about Josh's experience is that he had a full Morehouse experience," says Hudson. "When he marches across the stage on May 18 and receives his diploma, he's going to be a Morehouse Man in every way -- except ethnicity."
"I don't think ethnicity makes the difference; it's what's in his heart."


suck it up chups....p.s. don't think i want dinner tonight darlin...in fact i just locked the door and u cannot get me :P

[EviLWaYz]

Well the reason there are all black schools like this is quite simple. Generally in schools, there have often been criticisms as to the teaching curriculum or syllabus being focused around pre-dominantly white culture. A perfect example of this is "Black history month". Now I don't think it's possible that black history can be summed up into a course lasting a month. White culture, white history as well as mainstream language codes are used in schools and hence it would be only natural for the black community to feel often segregated. All black schools could simply be a reaction to this. I would strongly disagree if in these institutions, any form of racism was being strengthened or furthered. But typically if this sort of facility is following a curriculum more centred around topics more relevant to black people, I don't see a particular problem with it. Therefore it would be a natural assumption that since the focal point is black history/culture that only black people would be interested in learning it. However I do feel that white people and people from other races should also be allowed to explore this field if they have a sincere interest in it. I suppose in a way the black community could be safe-guarding their interests and their heritage in a way they see fit and justifiable by posting the "black only" tag to their resepctive institutions.

On another level it could be due to the antagonism that existed pre-civil rights movement, and even during. It's no big secret that black people were discriminated against in educational facilities which bore the "Whites only" tag as well. So "black only" institutions could be a reactionary measure to that form of socially devisive attitude that existed in those times. Although in a modern context it is highly inappropriate because institutionalised racism is a thing of the past. Ofcourse exceptions do occur and you do see cases of severe racial tention but thankfully it is no longer the norm. Then again one could argue that "black schools" aren't the norm either and hence could be socially acceptable.

In my personal view, as long as all black schools are not preaching seperatism and racial hatred, it is fine for them to be exploring and propagating their own histories, contexts, culure and social heroes. As long as it is limited ofcourse to educational purposes and does not carry racially motivated undertones.

Just my two cents.

monk you like to write don't you lol never see a small post when monk is doing it:P

[JaiJai]

Ahh I just teased resa about this a min ago..thus i Shall post it...good thing she made breakfast BEFORE this convo :P

:blahblah:

suck it up chups....p.s. don't think i want dinner tonight darlin...in fact i just locked the door and u cannot get me :P


oh REALLYYYYY!?? :sneaky:

[HellRaiser]

Agree's with jai Jai posts completly, ignores Jacx hehehe...

[Drunken Monk]

Agree's with jai Jai posts completly, ignores Jacx hehehe...


Seconds the agreement, get's on Jacx's tits yet again. :)


EDIT : There you go GUNNER, a nice short one for ya..

[Jacx]

like i said..suck it up bitches

[Drunken Monk]

like i said..suck it up bitches


I actually agree with a lot of the points you made as well. I was just trying to live up to the title you bestowed upon me yesterday :D

To keep it short and sweet, if black schools are teaching black culture, history, ethics and origins and if they allow white students to enroll if they are sincerely interested, then I see no problem in it.

If on the other hand they are being intentionally segregationist, then I agree with JaiJai in that it's just a means of causing a further schism in black-white relationships and should be discouraged because white people will quite obviously make similar comparisons like JaiJai has done, and they are quite valid in my opinion.

[EviLWaYz]

Seconds the agreement, get's on Jacx's tits yet again. :)


EDIT : There you go GUNNER, a nice short one for ya..
LOL I GOT ON JACX TITS LAST NIGHT ABOUT THE DELL:P

[Mitch]

Lol