Pro A1 - Beta Test

[tim|away]

As some of you might have already noticed, pro A games are ready to be tested. The beta is up and waiting for you to mess it up. You may have more than one account for testing purposes, however, multiple accounts will not be allowed by the time pro games leave beta stage. Despite the fact that you receive twice the number of tokens in this test round, the number of tokens issued per time interval will go back to normal next round. For this round, I have raised the token limit to 340.

I will write a longer post about pro games in a few days, but let's sum up quickly what the difference to regular A-games is.

* cartels will be locked after 96 hours
* 5 players per cartel
* adjusted weapon loss rates, both for the attacker and defender
* adjusted cartel weight
* reduced machine output

This beta round will end on 30th June. If everything goes plan, we'll have the first regular round afterwards.

Report problems with the game here and don't post them on Game Talk.


-Tim

[Drunken Monk]

How about increasing the freebies from 2 to 5 tokens and reducing the time from 20 to 10 hours, that may be an interesting variable to add as well..

[6m$SexGod]

Don't understand what is happening with this? Are these the rules for future a games after this round or what, obviously apart from the multis?

[Duffman]

Duffman Will Own You All Mwooohahahaha

[Jacx]

Don't understand what is happening with this? Are these the rules for future a games after this round or what, obviously apart from the multis?

its just a idea of what the game will be like...full details yet to follow!

[OpticaliLLusion]

If there were ever a game to have no record boards....Pro games seem like the ideal place.

[tim|away]

Share your opinion on TJ's suggestion to get rid of the records page, please.


@6million $ man
Pro A will NOT replace regular A-games. It will be a separate game with slightly modified settings.

[Zeus]

I Like the idea of no records, but I think it should only cost 1 tokens to thug somebody and maybe even 3/13 tokens to jump somebody. Gunners will be burning alot more tokens on thuggings.


Is there only going to be just "A" style Pro room and is there going to more than 1 room?

[supernova]

Why should we remove records? They just give a slight information on what's going on - and besides, people are proud when they get a credit or jump record.

[Carping]

go for it, get rid of the records in "pro" games. would bring more importance on gunners thugging their targets. you wanted it to be a game for the pro players and that would rearly show the best in the room and would stop the noob gunners just hitting mwj all round.

but 1 thing i have noticed the gun players gotta be in a VERY VERY strong cart to even make a dent on a players score

[Drunken Monk]

go for it, get rid of the records in "pro" games. would bring more importance on gunners thugging their targets. you wanted it to be a game for the pro players and that would rearly show the best in the room and would stop the noob gunners just hitting mwj all round.

but 1 thing i have noticed the gun players gotta be in a VERY VERY strong cart to even make a dent on a players score



Trust me Scott, nothing is going to stop the n00bs. i have two cartels in there and right they they can't tell which is worth and which is gunning. So, today I had a jump done on one of my gunning accounts and the guy beat me down for 2 junkies and I got a PM saying "Hahahahaha owned bitch" :hehe:

Getting rid of the records page is a really good idea, but here's the problem, just because it says "Pro-Games" doesn't mean only the pros will play. You'll have enchanted n00bs from all over DW signing up and without records to focus their grubby little guns on, they're just going to attack anyone they can on their score page who's below them in worth which will serve to make it more chaotic.

[Carping]

just to show the how much the loss ratio has changed....

Sat Jun 21, 8:31 AM
• ЯΘŦŦ ЇŊ РÏ£Č£$ (#250) jumped you, but you were able to fight him off. In the shoot-out you lost 0 guns and 58 vests. Your opponent lost 706 guns and 0 vests.

now thats a big difference

[Ero-Sennin]

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/alheretic/jump1.jpg

the negative lost of vest might be a bug???

[Drunken Monk]

just to show the how much the loss ratio has changed....

Sat Jun 21, 8:31 AM
• ЯΘŦŦ ЇŊ РÏ£Č£$ (#250) jumped you, but you were able to fight him off. In the shoot-out you lost 0 guns and 58 vests. Your opponent lost 706 guns and 0 vests.

now thats a big difference


Ah now that is good to see. Very good to see indeed! hehe


EDIT : However notice the equality in loss ratio on a successful jump, very very fair me thinks -

You jump Elite_Noob (#53) and won $10, 14 junkies and 0 sq. ft. of labspace! In the battle you lost 626 guns and 15 vests, but destroyed 19 guns and 625 vests from your enemy.

[Zeus]

Ah now that is good to see. Very good to see indeed! hehe

Why?

[supernova]

Will this be open for anyone, or is invitation only?

[Calienta]

Open to everyone.

[supernova]

Cool. I can practice my thugging skills.

[Calienta]

lol I didn't know there were skills involved!

[Drunken Monk]

Why?

Well because now if an idiot n00b or a suicider doesn't break through, they get a bit more punished for it than the target. Plus, people jumping way out of their range as well. Nice improvement I think.

[Zeus]

Well because now if an idiot n00b or a suicider doesn't break through, they get a bit more punished for it than the target. Plus, people jumping way out of their range as well. Nice improvement I think.


If there were to be no records, then the increased vest/guns loss ratio on a failed attempt is not needed and just leave it be. If thats the case, then adding a new thug option to see how much cash the potential target is holding should be a fair trade. Are you trying to make it as hard as possible for gunners?

[Drunken Monk]

If there were to be no records, then the increased vest/guns loss ratio on a failed attempt is not needed and just leave it be. If thats the case, then adding a new thug option to see how much cash the potential target is holding should be a fair trade. Are you trying to make it as hard as possible for gunners?


Erm no, I'm gunning in there myself. My points about the increased loss ratios and records are two totally seperate things..as far as records are concerned, yes if you're removing them to make the game harder because its a "pro" game, then maybe its an option, but yeah increasing thug powers then is totally reasonable and I agree, they should then be able to find out how much money and possibly the handles of the cartel members as well.

As far as the loss ratios are concerned, people should catch on after a while that lost jumps are not going to go down well for their arsenal and as a result, they'll be pushed towards learning which targets they can actually beat down. Overall, balance will be maintained.

[supernova]

I think there should be an inherent risk for people getting on most junkies. If they know they'll get a few jumps anyway, they should just try harder to avoid it. This way, a good balance is maintained, as top people need to find the best trade between getting a lot of junkies but also a lot of attacks and being safer but not producing so much.

[6m$SexGod]

Why dont we limit the pro games to the top 60 players, obviously not including the players over room accounts, but then the overall player picking maybe upto 20 wild cards!

Think it would be a big incentive!

[Jacx]

I think the definition of pro is getting lost!

The carts will be limited to 5 players, then locked after X amount of hours.

This results in basically your team for the month, if a player stops playing, ur fucked. Thus u organize a team based on the mentality of we do this right and we do it to win! Hence the Pro, if your not dedicated then thats not the room for you.

[supernova]

So once you joined a cartel, you cannot get out?

[Jacx]

I believe the plan is u have 96 hours (aka end of day 4) to get organised, at that point ur then locked in!

[Drunken Monk]

I think the definition of pro is getting lost!

The carts will be limited to 5 players, then locked after X amount of hours.

This results in basically your team for the month, if a player stops playing, ur fucked. Thus u organize a team based on the mentality of we do this right and we do it to win! Hence the Pro, if your not dedicated then thats not the room for you.


This is a brilliant test of skill, agreed, but what happens when wee pacts start popping up and people like Bambi and his lackies from A1 start forming "alliances" and start coming in with their hoard of 40 players in the room to fuck with everyone else...the definition of 'pro' would be modified very soon after that as well.

[swiss miss]

This is a brilliant test of skill, agreed, but what happens when wee pacts start popping up and people like Bambi and his lackies from A1 start forming "alliances" and start coming in with their hoard of 40 players in the room to fuck with everyone else...the definition of 'pro' would be modified very soon after that as well.

to my knowledge, and i quote here "bambi and his lackies" have won nothing so far..... the pros usually come out on top ;)

[Jacx]

well said...pros are pros for a reason!!!

[Drunken Monk]

well said...pros are pros for a reason!!!

to my knowledge, and i quote here "bambi and his lackies" have won nothing so far..... the pros usually come out on top ;)


Yes yes I know...i meat its annoying to deal with that sort of attitude. i didn't mean specifically them, i mean anyone who comes in with hoards. You watch, its bound to happen and even if they don't win anything, it doesn't stop them from fucking up our scores from time to time. Remember A4 two rounds back Jen? Those dumb arse gunners? That's the kind of fuck all behaviour I think has scope for being repeated in Pro Games as well. Nonetheless, this is an extremely fun new format of the game, and I'm loving it so far :D

[Zeus]

Why dont we limit the pro games to the top 60 players, obviously not including the players over room accounts, but then the overall player picking maybe upto 20 wild cards!

Think it would be a big incentive!


How underestimated can you be suggesting something like that. Who wanna to play a game with 60 ppl..Ill go play Free Markets then....:|

[Diogee]

Ok Ok I have one question about the cartel locking... DO all cartels lock and you cant form/join a new cartel after 96 hours? or is it a cartel is locked 96 hours after creation??

[6m$SexGod]

How underestimated can you be suggesting something like that. Who wanna to play a game with 60 ppl..Ill go play Free Markets then....:|

Zeus, cant you add, it would be 80 people

Quick little maths lesson

Top 60 + 20 Wildcards = 80

Also when playgrounds come along how many players do they usually have playing?

Oh and good luck playing Free Markets! :bleh:

[tim|away]

Ok Ok I have one question about the cartel locking... DO all cartels lock and you cant form/join a new cartel after 96 hours? or is it a cartel is locked 96 hours after creation??

You can leave, join and create as many cartels as you like within the first 96 hours of the round. I thought it made sense to give players some room to breathe. If you are in a cartel after 96 hours, you are stuck in there for the rest of the round.

I am not sure how we'll handle players that aren't in a cartel at that time. With the current settings, they are able to join and create cartels even after the cartels have been locked. However, once in, they can't get out.

[steff]

Sounds like leaving a cartel 95 hours and 59 minutes into a round will be fun. Will there be an ingame clock with processes such as the cartel locking automated?

just to show the how much the loss ratio has changed....

Sat Jun 21, 8:31 AM
• ЯΘŦŦ ЇŊ РÏ£Č£$ (#250) jumped you, but you were able to fight him off. In the shoot-out you lost 0 guns and 58 vests. Your opponent lost 706 guns and 0 vests.

now thats a big difference

That's a piece of crap. Even the best gunners lose jumps and that is a killer if it happens. Losing like that after 10 failed jumps in a round would be a better idea.


However notice the equality in loss ratio on a successful jump, very very fair me thinks -

You jump Elite_Noob (#53) and won $10, 14 junkies and 0 sq. ft. of labspace! In the battle you lost 626 guns and 15 vests, but destroyed 19 guns and 625 vests from your enemy.

It's not really fair. If gunners get so harshly penalized for a lost jump then there should be advantages for a successful one. This one doesn't look all that different to me from the usual jumps. Also, I assume countergunning will be toned down too?


Are you trying to make it as hard as possible for gunners?

Of course worthers will always whine until gunning is obsolete.

[tim|away]

Steff, you do realise that the loss on the attacker's end, regardless of whether the jump was won or not, has NOT increased at all, don't you? These settings don't directly penalize gunners, they protect worthers from overly confident attackers.

[Drunken Monk]

It's not really fair. If gunners get so harshly penalized for a lost jump then there should be advantages for a successful one. This one doesn't look all that different to me from the usual jumps. Also, I assume countergunning will be toned down too?



Steff, you do realise that the loss on the attacker's end, regardless of whether the jump was won or not, has NOT increased at all, don't you? These settings don't directly penalize gunners, they protect worthers from overly confident attackers.


There ya go. That's one of the main points to consider here. In my gunning account today, I made a jump and won summit like 25 junkies but my loss ratio was absolutely consistent with a fair jump because I chose a target in my range!

Why shouldn't a gunner be punished if he's trying to jump someone worth $10 million more than them eh? If you picked on a guy 3 times your size in real life, your arse would be a pancake on the sidewalk. Apply those principles here as well. I think its bloody brilliant. Anyone who doesn't like it can go suck their thumbs.

[Carping]

Sun Jun 22, 12:40 PM
• Arch Enemy (#46) jumped you, but you were able to fight him off. In the shoot-out you lost 0 guns and 276 vests. Your opponent lost 2,621 guns and 0 vests.

now that aint no noob gunner is it dave:P

if that the sort of damage a "TOP" gunner is doing i think i will forget stamina alltogether in pro1. im just running 20 lab and junks with stamina at 200%. im gonna forget stamina from now on and see how long it is till someone breaks through but i wont hold my breath it seems gunners are at a big disadvantage.

[Diogee]

Umm yeah, he lost about 10x more guns than you lost vests so with that ratio 1 lost jump a day and you can be screwed, pretty much takes away the point of gunning people higher worth than you

[tim|away]

It is obvious that there is quite a difference between the attacker's loss and the defender's loss if the jump was lost. I am aware that it looks as if the gunner loses a lot of weapons, however, a gunner does NOT lose more weapons than they usually would. I have only altered the loss on the defender's end to protect them from hopeless attempts.

In other words, it does not affect the gunner's game directly, as you lose as many weapons as you usually would. Lost jumps just have a less significant impact on the game. Furthermore, gunners destroy slightly (!) more weapons and lose slightly (!) fewer weapons if the jump was won. Before anyone tells me that the loss is fairly equal, take a look at the loss ratio in A or B and you'll notice that, on the average, the gunner loses more weapons than the defender.

@carping
Keep your stamina at 200%, I would like to see how hard it actually is to jump you.

[XXX]

:mad:What are you all on Dope?

[steff]

Steff, you do realise that the loss on the attacker's end, regardless of whether the jump was won or not, has NOT increased at all, don't you? These settings don't directly penalize gunners, they protect worthers from overly confident attackers.

No, I took it at face value since I haven't signed up yet. You have basically eliminated suiciding. Wouldn't a better method be to just reduce it?

PS - any junkie worther players playing, go gun gunners for extra junkies people because if you're strong, they can't do shit to you

[tim|away]

Steff, the point of the pro format is to enable players to run a cartel easily. You and your 4 friends can form a team in the blink of an eye and fight for a medal. It is supposed to be highly competetive with lots of small teams. To answer your question, no, it would not be a better method to just reduce suiciding, as suiciding and this concept don't mix. Cartels are locked and people are supposed to care about their worth instead of sacrificing their round to suicide their rivals.

As far as your suggestion for junkie players to jump gunners is concerned, you'll end up being a more attractive target for any gunner whilst destroying your own vests. Sooner or later you'll be on most working junkies with a significantly weaker defence than the average junkie player. I'm certainly not as confident as you about the chance of success of this particular strategy.

[supernova]

Will cartel benefits remain at 1%, while factories will produce slightly less?

[steff]

As far as your suggestion for junkie players to jump gunners is concerned, you'll end up being a more attractive target for any gunner whilst destroying your own vests. Sooner or later you'll be on most working junkies with a significantly weaker defence than the average junkie player. I'm certainly not as confident as you about the chance of success of this particular strategy.

A $20 donation for what should be a guarenteed overall win though. Anyway it's all theory, if any solid probelms show up I'm sure you'll fix them. :)

[0siris]

No feckin donations or inviting friends in the pro game!! please :)

[Jacx]

No feckin donations or inviting friends in the pro game!! please :)


Only if ur gonna pay for the extra Bandwidth :sneaky: