Immigration

[J.A.M.]

Speak for your own country. I will speak for mine.

The basic question that has to be asked about current Canadian immigration policies is this: "Why is Canada bringing in so many people?" (Currently, Canada allows entry to around 250,000 immigrants per year with a goal of admitting 1% of Canada's population annually. In 2006, a 1% policy would permit around 320,000+ immigrants to enter Canada.)

A number of critics have pointed out the potential cultural consequences of Canada's new immigration policies. Among these critics is Ottawa Citizen columnist Randall Denley. He noted in a January, 2003 column, that this policy, if continued, will result in a major cultural change in Canada. The present dominant culture will become a minority and be marginalized by the cultures of those now entering. Mr. Denley asserted that most Canadians are sleepwalking through this massive demographic change in their country.

Personally, I think immigration to Canada is irrational and has turned into a flood.

[Santo]

Well move.... i think immigration should be a right, if you prove you are going to become a productive part of the community you want to move into.

[J.A.M.]

I never said to stop immigration...I said to not allow so many to come into the country.
Move where? U.S.? They have the same deal. I just want my country to stay the way it is. Already I can go to a town named Markham and almost everything there is written in Chinese. I have no clue what anything is.

[Santo]

I didnt mean to come out so strong, sorry for that, but i do mean that immigration should be a right to every one.

[Calienta]

An issue that angers me and many people I've spoken with is where a Sikh immigrant applied for and was given a job in the RCMP. If you don't know what that is, they are our Royal Canadian Mounted Police, a Canadian symbol with their red jacket and beige hats.

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/protocol/site/images/dip_forum/2004/RCMP-CH-00298.jpg

Once a Mountie, he filed for and received special consideration for his religion, and now wears a turban instead of the Mountie hat. The uniform is secular... Should Jews start wearing a Yarmulke and female Muslims a Hijab? If they go to McDonalds for a job will they forgo the uniform and wear their Abaya?

http://www.rcmp.ca/history/images/turban.jpg

Another issue: a young man in Montreal now brings his tribal sword to school because his religion states that men must be armed at all times. We're being so politically correct we're endangering students. Afraid to affront our immigrants, we're bending over backwards and it's going too far.

My aunt lived in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and was forced to wear clothing to cover all her body and to follow their rules, no argument, even though it was not her religion. Should we go to their countries now and tell them to stop praying every day in public places because it's not our religion and it offends us? No. So come to our country, be a productive citizen, and better our communities. But don't change traditions that are important to us.

[J.A.M.]

There was another issue that came up in Montreal, where a muslim man was working in a port. Montreal had then issued a law, during his time as an employee, stating that everyone MUST wear a hard hat who work in construction, or dangerous sites. The man (who wears a turban) then started ranting about discrimination, and that they knew he couldn't wear a hard hat, and that's why they put in this law.

[Santo]

Well, i think that when you do use this right to immigrate, you should be ready to interact with a different culture and prepare to blend in, it's hard to keep your identity? yes, but you can't expect to keep your live as it was once you move. I think the answer to this problems is not to limit numbers, or doing specific policy, but finding ways to integrate society, encouraging new comers to blend in, and not making special priviledges to minorities (eventually everyone turns in to a minority).

I dont know if im making sense ;)

[Calienta]

I agree with you Santo, it's probably not the numbers, it's the fact that we're changing our traditions to suit them. If everything remained the same with just a bunch more citizens bringing cultural differences but acceptance with them, it would be far better. As it is, we're reduced to wanting to limit their numbers because of all the problems they're causing.

[J.A.M.]

you should be ready to interact with a different culture and prepare to blend in

Very good point/opinion

[Nazkyn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQWEQ33JCKc&search=turban

[Santo]

That's mean, its funny, but uncalled for lol

[Kat]

I agree with you Santo, it's probably not the numbers, it's the fact that we're changing our traditions to suit them. If everything remained the same with just a bunch more citizens bringing cultural differences but acceptance with them, it would be far better. As it is, we're reduced to wanting to limit their numbers because of all the problems they're causing.
If immigrants are demanding that people change their traditions then that's not on, but mostly I don't think this is happening. Immigrants may have different traditions, and may not be willing to abandon them, but generally they don't ask other people to abandon theirs either. I think a sense of cultural insecurity in countries with high immigration would be better addresses by the citizens of that culture working to keep the traditions that are important to them alive, rather that worrying about what other people are doing. A country and a culture are not intrinsically linked - if you (generally 'you', not aiming this at you Cali) want to keep your culture alive then it's up to you to do so, and I don't think it's necessary to ask other people to change theirs in order to do this.

I think sometimes when people are born in a place they expect the government of that country to guarentee their culture in some way. Not only do I believe that it's not the government's job to do this - I also think that they can't - only the people who share that culture can do that. Most countries have many cultures, and one shouldn't be privaliged above others simply because it's been around in that country longer.

I think the boy taking a sword to school is wrong, because as it's been pointed out this is a safety issue, but the mountie wearing a turban I don't really see the problem with - I'm sure there are plenty of other mounties wearing the traditional headgear to keep that tradition alive.

[Calienta]

The majority of Mounties do wear the traditional headgear, but that wasn't my point Kat. Because it's a secular uniform, the Sikh man should have not had any ground on which to base his argument. This was a job he applied for, he was not forced into it, and the job has a standard uniform that everyone must wear, regardless of their religion. Why, then, is he allowed to bring his religion into an entirely secular matter?

I think whether it's a tradition or not, what I'm trying to say is the man changed the rules to suit his religion, when beliefs shouldn't even come into play.

We are also changing the traditions of celebrating Christmas in schools. Many schools are now cutting it out altogether because the immigrants are unhappy with it. Don't go to the Christmas dance then. I don't get offended by their mosques they have built, even though it isn't my religion. Just adapt, don't force others into changing what they do.

[Nazkyn]

The traditional forum background colour goes against ALL of my beliefs, I wish to have it changed just for me ASAP please.

[steff]

If they have a skill that is needed, they are welcome. By skill I don't mean stacking shelves. I mean a proper profession. They should get no benefits from the Government other than the very basic because they are in this country for that reason.

If they commit any crime then they get deported quicker than they were admitted with no reconsideration. Being an immigrant should be treated as a privilege not a right. Suspected terrorists get deported immediately whether it's proven or not. Why take the risk? They are suspected for a reason!

When they come into this country they do not get accommodation with perks bought for them, they find their own.

Those are my views on how immigration should be run... it's not racist to impose stricter rules but the UK Government don't see it like that.

[Kat]

The majority of Mounties do wear the traditional headgear, but that wasn't my point Kat. Because it's a secular uniform, the Sikh man should have not had any ground on which to base his argument. This was a job he applied for, he was not forced into it, and the job has a standard uniform that everyone must wear, regardless of their religion. Why, then, is he allowed to bring his religion into an entirely secular matter?
As I understand it, the religion dictates that turbans must be worn at all times - whatever the setting. So if the man isn't allowed to wear the turban then he'll either have to abandon his religion (which I don't think a society or state should be able to require him to do) or not take the job. I think the benefit in having a police force that reflects the ethnic and religious makeup of the country (along with the benefit to that individual of upholding his rights) outways the negative points of not having an entirely standardised uniform.


I think whether it's a tradition or not, what I'm trying to say is the man changed the rules to suit his religion, when beliefs shouldn't even come into play.

I think there are times when rules can't be changed to suit someone's religion, but I think that wherever possible rules should accomodate a person's choice of faith. I don't really see where there's any harm caused in this situation, so I don't see why the rules shouldn't accomodate him.

We are also changing the traditions of celebrating Christmas in schools. Many schools are now cutting it out altogether because the immigrants are unhappy with it. Don't go to the Christmas dance then. I don't get offended by their mosques they have built, even though it isn't my religion. Just adapt, don't force others into changing what they do.
My view is that religion is best kept out of education completely, other than in Religous Education lessons when children should be taught enough about as many religions as possible so that they can understand and be respectful of other faiths.

[J.A.M.]

My view is that religion is best kept out of education completely, other than in Religous Education lessons when children should be taught enough about as many religions as possible so that they can understand and be respectful of other faiths.

Give me a break. Are you telling me that when you have kids, you don't want them to have a Christmas party, or listen to Christmas music and fun in school as a child, just because of some complaining parents who don't believe in Christmas? That's ridiculous.

[Calienta]

Each example on its own sounds petty but it remains that they are coming into the country and changing things, when if we went to theirs to try it we would be flatly ignored.

[Kat]

Give me a break. Are you telling me that when you have kids, you don't want them to have a Christmas party, or listen to Christmas music and fun in school as a child, just because of some complaining parents who don't believe in Christmas? That's ridiculous.
I don't really think it's that big a deal. Kids like parties and they like songs - they don't really care on the whole whether they're religious ones or not, so why press it on them in the name of fun.

Personally I would like to think my kids will decide their own religion (or none) and I'd like them to be educated, not indoctrinated. I think this is a different debate really though...


Each example on its own sounds petty but it remains that they are coming into the country and changing things, when if we went to theirs to try it we would be flatly ignored.
Yes, you probably would in many countries, but that doesn't support the argument that it's right for your country to do the same. 2 wrongs and all that...

[Mark]

as an australian i feel that the more the merrier australians have had many immigrints arrive in waves and the only thing they have done is inrich or own culture.

[Kat]

LOL I love how you say, "Well move". How would you feel if some one came into your home, and told you, "I'm here, get the fuck out"
I'm not sure if you're trying to use this as an argument against immigration, but if you are, then I don't think it's valid: the government guarentees you rights to your house, because you've paid for it - it doesn't guarentee to safeguard your culture (the loss of dilution of which seems to be the main argument against immigration in this thread).

[Santo]

LOL I love how you say, "Well move". How would you feel if some one came into your home, and told you, "I'm here, get the fuck out"


See i should have edited that out cause it came out wrong, now every country has it's own immigration problems, and i think i made it clear of what i think of it.

[Nickything]

I think Canada can be said to be more of a liberal democracy than Saudi Arabia Cali.. Sikhs can wear any colour turban they wish ( so I assume one in the same clour as the Mounties hat could be worn.. In the UK they have dark blue or black ones with the police logo on) but they do have to wear it for religious reasons and to quite a great degree the layers and layers of material do protect the head.

I agree that immigrants should try and assimilate more than they do in some instances, however the ghettoisation of certain groups of immigrants is not always by their own choice. Don't forget that most of our countries actively sought immigration at one stage or another to fill skill shortages and for many other reasons. These immigrants would naturally group together in an unfamiliar place and were often initially helped to get housing in certain areas.

There also seems to be an assumption in some posts that most immigrants are economic migrants, I don't know the figures but aren't you forgetting those people who arrive after fearing for their lives in less democratic countries, many simply for disagreeing with government policy.. ( rf Zimbabwe) or fleeing a war zone. Anyway, if we allow economic migrants or those fleeing for their lives into our countries why should we deny them access to some basic human rights such as food and shelter, (but not in degrading immigration centres!) while they try to get themselves on their feet.

I am not denying that there are people who come to our countries that are not coming for "good" reasons but they are generally very much in the minority> If some of the attitudes I have seen put forward here are shown to immigrants it will only serve to ghettosise and marginalise them even further and make assimilation that much harder. This in turn leads to disaffection and unrest, not to mention allowing those who would promote terrorism a way in to influence the disaffected.

[steff]

Immigrants will generally take any job at any wage. This lowers the general wage for that sector putting actual Britons out of business or out of a job because let's face it, who is going to employ someone born here when they want £1 more per hour than an immigrant? Which is why they should only be brought in when a skilled job needs filled.

Yes, they do deserve basic shelter and the like when they arrive, but why should that basic shelter be of better quality than the shithole I live in?

[Nickything]

Hmmm is there any evidence to suggest that immigrants are deliberately lowering the general wage for a given sector or is that unscrupulous employers exploit their need to work (and willingness to do jobs that many British born people would deem below them) and offer them a very low wage?

[steff]

Of course it's not deliberate. They are just trying to make a living but them making a living makes it worse on British workers. They will work for cheaper meaning the wage will be lower. It benefits everyday people like you because you just want the cheapest handyman, you don't mind whether they are Asian, Eastern European or British born, the cheapest will do. So, if we only get people in for skilled jobs that we have a shortage of then there would be no problem.

For the unscrupulous employer, a simple solution is needed, one that was ran during the Apartheid system in S. Africa. If they get caught hiring primarily cheap/illegal workers or paying them below the minimum wage, then they get a heavy fine making those pennies they saved on wages pointless. I gather there will be some sort of law that is like this already but it probably isn't as strict as I'd like it.

[Nickything]

I agree with your last point about punitive fines for employers paying slave labour wages to people who simply want to work. If this was made impossible and the wages for a job whether filled by a native worker or by an immigrant was the same then this would put an end to a lot of this practice. You really can't blame immigrants for it though.

OK, so how about the many immigrants who have gone on to run businesses, become entrepeneurs etc and employed many native workers?

[steff]

There are laws that a certain number of immigrants must be employed into certain jobs, so we just make a law that makes it impossible for a company to employ a majority of immigrants unless it's in an immigrant filled area (like Gorbals, Sitehill etc. as Glasgow examples).

[Aaron Carter]

i agree with steff but the onli thing is , even tho i dont like immagrants and think there shud b limited ammounts in a certain country , they do jobs that we wudnt , for example clean toilets , empty bins etc . an then we moan wen they get the jobs , but really we wudnt do them r selves :unsure:

[steff]

I've never seen a binman who isn't white actually so that's not a valid arguement. From they cleaners I do know, they are white woman, so that arguement is up in the air too and FYI, I tried to get a part time job cleaning offices in the early hours of the morning as a part time job before I go to Uni.

Maybe it's different in other parts of the UK, but in the East End of Glasgow we take what we are given so none of this bullshit "they do jobs we won't" works with me. There will always be someone to do the job whether they like it or not, you can't stay on the dole forever.

[J.A.M.]

they do jobs that we wudnt , for example clean toilets , empty bins etc . an then we moan wen they get the jobs , but really we wudnt do them r selves :unsure:

This is very untrue. In Canada I am absolutely positive if you went onto the streets where the homeless live, you would find many who would take any job they could. Maybe they would be spending their money alcohol, but they would take it.

[Aaron Carter]

ok im wrong i apologize :Shutit:

[Calienta]

No apology needed craigie, it's easy to forget that while you might scoff at taking a certain job, there are loads of people in way worse circumstances that would jump at the chance.

[Aaron Carter]

ye thats wot i was tryin 2 say , that there are certain , degradin jobs that we wud refuse to do , even if we needed the money , but mainly immigrants do them for barely nothin coz money is money to them ...

[Nickything]

even tho i dont like immagrants :

All of them? wow, Ok I hate all people with blue eyes then :super:

[Aaron Carter]

well the ones that come in to the country , pay no taxes national insurance etc , an get given free money by the government to do wot they please , a normal person who has worked all their lives , for example gets made redundant will have to apply to get dole money an have to take interviews to make sure they are worthy of it even tho they have payed all taxes an any other policy they have had to pay , then u get immigrants that just come over , cant even speak the language , but get given any money they want to buy a home , cars etc an they get the money wen they want

[Kat]

well the ones that come in to the country , pay no taxes national insurance etc , an get given free money by the government to do wot they please , a normal person who has worked all their lives , for example gets made redundant will have to apply to get dole money an have to take interviews to make sure they are worthy of it even tho they have payed all taxes an any other policy they have had to pay , then u get immigrants that just come over , cant even speak the language , but get given any money they want to buy a home , cars etc an they get the money wen they want
Go round speaking Afghan all day - you just don't try do you? :P

Seriously though, the tax issue is an easy one to argue, but I don't think it holds up. A large proportion of taxes are used in the here and now - to sustain a quality of living, not to improve things in the long term (think about whether things have got better in the country as a whole since you've been paying taxes - if not then you haven't actually helped build anything, just sustain things). In fact, considering that many countries (I'm pretty sure Britain anyway) are getting themselves deeper into national debt each year, you should argue that it's the immigrants who should be pissed off: "You build up huge debts and enjoy the proceeds, and then we come over, having not had any benefits from these loans, and help pay them off when we get jobs and pay taxes".

Of course, you seem to be arguing that immigrants don't get jobs, but get given an unlimited pot of free money - I'm not quite sure where you're getting this from or what country you're talking about - could you clarify?

My opinion is that if immigrants are fraudulantly (sp?) claiming benefits, or evading tax, then they should be treated like all other citizens who do the same - in fact in all ways they should be treated equally.

[Beli]

semi off topic. not sure about how the rest of the world works but in California the amounts illegal immigrants are astounding. how they mess things up for the legal people, goes a little like this for one example:
illegal gets hurt and goes to a hospital
according to COBRA laws everyone must be treated
(in the US you must have private insurance)
the illegal person is treated then goes away without paying the bill
the hospital still has to pay for staff, supplies, ambulance ride and so on
the illegal person 99% of the time never pays a penny
tax dollars from legal citizens are used to cover some of these costs
try this situation times 1.6 million and it starts to really hurt. several hospitals have had to close because of this. sad when legal residents who have paid taxes all their lives are now having to drive further to get medical attention through no fault of their own.

[J.A.M.]

@beli

I'm guessing alot of those illegal immigrants are the Mexicans, right? I can't answer your statement very well, due to the fact that Canada does not have a ton of illegal immigrants. I see everything you are saying though, and how eventually everyone has to dig into their own pockets, in order to pay off the debts of the illegals.

[Honeypot]

There's this show called 30 days... It's produced by the guy who made that documentary "Super Size Me"... I'm not sure what channel it's on, but it's a cable channel... Anyway I was watching an episode of "30 days" a few days ago, and they had a border patrol agent live with an illegal immigrant family for 30 days.

These immigrants came from absolutely nothing in Mexico. They came to the US 12 years ago, and hadn't been able to return to Mexico for fear of not being able to come back to the US.

Anyway, they lived in a shack, and that's saying more than it really was. To get water they had to run a hose from a well that was clearly contaminated.

These people wanted to become legal, but their ideals were all screwed up. They wanted to start their own business so they could employ other illegal immigrants. I'm pretty sure that by the end of the 30 days they all had a better understanding of what's really going on, but the illegal immigrants do cause a lot of problems.

It's not that they will do work that American's don't want to do... It's that an American will charge $30 per hour for a job that an illegal immigrant will charge only $30 for the job in total. They are taking away from American jobs, and they don't pay taxes, so we lose out a lot that way. It's a huge problem in the US.

Now as for Canada, and the original post. I think you are being very racist in your comment. The world changes all the time, and your reasoning for not wanting the immigrants there is ridiculous. As long as the immigrants (as someone already stated) are able to show that they will be a valuable asset to your country you should welcome them with open arms. It's when they live there illegally that you should worry because then they are not contributing to the economy of your country.

[J.A.M.]

Now as for Canada, and the original post. I think you are being very racist in your comment. The world changes all the time, and your reasoning for not wanting the immigrants there is ridiculous. As long as the immigrants (as someone already stated) are able to show that they will be a valuable asset to your country you should welcome them with open arms. It's when they live there illegally that you should worry because then they are not contributing to the economy of your country.

I have made several posts, indicating that they are changing our laws here...Did you not read the part where the boy is now allowed to bring a dagger to school because it's his religion. We tell them they can't do something, and they start ranting that we are discriminating. I believe that immigration is a right, but I don't believe that the immigrants should be treating it as a right. Treat it as a privelege, and start trouble. About saying that the original post is racist, most of that was an article in the Ottawa Citizen, written by a columnist, not me. Although I strongly agree with him.

[Honeypot]

I have made several posts, indicating that they are changing our laws here...Did you not read the part where the boy is now allowed to bring a dagger to school because it's his religion. We tell them they can't do something, and they start ranting that we are discriminating. I believe that immigration is a right, but I don't believe that the immigrants should be treating it as a right. Treat it as a privelege, and start trouble. About saying that the original post is racist, most of that was an article in the Ottawa Citizen, written by a columnist, not me. Although I strongly agree with him.

No I didn't read every post here.
And I don't agree with a kid being able to bring a dagger to school, and that wouldn't happen here, because we can't even pray in school anymore for God's sake. So the religion thing wouldn't get anywhere here.
I agree with you that they should treat it as a privilege rather than a right. I don't think it is a right that they have if they just want to bring down the economy of the country that they are living in. I understand that a lot of people live in terrible circumstances, and they want to be able to go somewhere better. But I think that they need to go about it the right way, and pay taxes just like the rest of us.

The reason I said that was racist was because the impression that I got from that post was that you don't want your country to change. There's nothing that you can do about things changing. That's the natural order of life. If there's one thing you can count on, it's change. Things will always change. It seemed racist because it seemed like you don't want different cultures around you.

If that's not the case then you can disregard what I said. I'm not in here to offend anyone. Just state my opinion. I agree with you to an extent about immigration.

[VikesWookie]

JAM-

I think you're on the right path... thinking about what matters to you and your fellow Canadiens. Back sixty years ago or so there was some of this thought that came out of Germany. Fear of what would happen to their society the more it got inter-mingled with other cultures. Fear that the Jews would control the economy more and more. Fear leads to hate. You see where I'm going with this... Mr. Denley is more facist than racist. Personally, I'd separate myself from this thought pattern.
Societies that don't accept and embrace change become stagnant. The kid bringing the knife to school is ridiculous though.
If immigration is a right it should be viewed as such by all...

The crazy thing with the immigration officer on that 30 days show is that he's an immigrant from Cuba... and initially showed much hate towards other hopeful immigrants.

Isn't Canada like the US in this respect... formed from immigrants.

[steff]

It seemed racist because it seemed like you don't want different cultures around you.

Because he does not want to embrace drastic change with open arms he is now racist? I don't either, to be quite frank, I'd rather things stayed as they are.


"JAM-

I think you're on the right path... thinking about what matters to you and your fellow Canadiens. Back sixty years ago or so there was some of this thought that came out of Germany."


The main difference is, JAM hasn't once said they should all go to gas chambers! :P

[VikesWookie]

steff- didn't say he said that. ...Mr. Denley is more facist than racist. Personally, I'd separate myself from this thought pattern.

i was drawing comparisons to what Denley has said to the past. i DON'T think Canada will EVER become a Nazi society, eh. it's much too liberal, but you find members of any society with fear of others, change and how it will affect the future.
Change is scary, don't know where it will lead. Being enthusiastic about it harbors less animosity towards the unknown though.

[Honeypot]

It seemed racist because it seemed like you don't want different cultures around you.

Because he does not want to embrace drastic change with open arms he is now racist? I don't either, to be quite frank, I'd rather things stayed as they are.


"JAM-

I think you're on the right path... thinking about what matters to you and your fellow Canadiens. Back sixty years ago or so there was some of this thought that came out of Germany."


The main difference is, JAM hasn't once said they should all go to gas chambers! :P

Personally I don't think that it's going to be that drastic of a change. Usually when people move to another country they try to embrace the culture of that country. They don't just come in and try to take over. There are always going to be different cultures who do things differently. Why not embrace that, and maybe learn a little something new?

[steff]

Because I struggle to believe in Christianity and have told a fair few 'Bible bashers' what I think of the religion, it's difficult for me to embrace new cultures because most are centered around religion and every other religion gets more farfetched than the last in my opinion. :P

[dandaman]

im atheist. i dont give a rats ass about religion because i think its a load of bollocks. these people come in from different countries and start forming rallis to try and convert us to their religion. im getting sick of it. people who come into the country legally usually bring some sort of benefit to the working community like shop owners or buisnessmen. but these ones try to take over our country. sooner or later the british population is going to form their own rally and there is going to be a mini civil war between them and the illegal immigrants. and that crap about the boy with the dagger? the ducation department shuold not be such pussies. i mean, who the fuck carries a weapon into school? honestly. its a load of shit. they should abide by OUR rules because they are in OUR countries.


those are my views

[Rex Mundi]

I can only speak about the situation in the UK at the moment as realistically, that is the only one I'm acquainted with.

At the moment, our current immigration policy seems to be dictated by the quality of blow job handed outh, rather than the merit of any individual claimant's case, if the tabloids are to be believed.

We are facing a large amount of redundancies in the NHS while nurses from the Phillipines & Africa seem to be appearing more & more ? We are laying off english nurses while taking on staff from countries who quite frankly need their services.

I won't get into the argument about immigrants adopting our culture as I've seen both sides of that coin, meeting people at work.

There'll be always people who feel that they can assimilate into the culture of their new home. Likewise, there will always be people who feel that the ways of their new home, threaten the tenets of their existing cultural beliefs. As a wise man once said (I believe it was Jiminy Cricket) they should always let their conscience be their guide.

This shouldn't be taken as giving people carte blanche to commit criminal or terrorist acts, just that sometimes, we should say " vive la difference"

Going back to my original point though, the UK has only finite space. It is a lickle island after all. I think we need to be tightening up on immigration. Australia has a points system which I think has a lot going for it. People need to be able to support themselves after a minimal period, not sponge off the state ad infinitum. We will always have our quota of asylum seekers, courtesy of the EU, so for those immigrants over and above that quota, why don't we "cherry pick" those who would offer a solid skills base in areas we are lacking ?

We do need to act responsibly with our immigration policy so instead of ploughing money into supporting people for protracted periods of time, why not divert some of those funds into helping their countries of origin ? You can't tell me that there's a massive surplus of qualified nurses in Africa & that they're not needed there. The nurses are economic migrants; they are looking to better their lot in life. There is inherently wrong with that, if people are not looking to better themselves through a stint of hard work, then we have a problem.

If we could improve the quality of life in other countries, then maybe these skilled & semi skilled immigrants would be able to stay in their country of origin & work for a better future, not only for themselves but also for the greater good of thier country.

I for one would rather think that a sizeable proportion of our budget be spent on improving the quality of life of people abroad and allowing other countries to retain their talent rather than making sure that a veritable king's ransom is paid out to those people whose first words of english are "family allowance" & "incapacity benefit".

If we can concentrate on adopting a very tough but fair immigration policy and a responsible and even handed foreign policy, we would enrich the lives of far more people both at home and abroad.

[J.A.M.]

Personally I don't think that it's going to be that drastic of a change. Usually when people move to another country they try to embrace the culture of that country. They don't just come in and try to take over. There are always going to be different cultures who do things differently. Why not embrace that, and maybe learn a little something new?

I differ. There was another incident in Canada where a muslim family were complaining because the school had a Christmas party! This school now does not have any Christmas related activities, all because of an immigrant family complaining that their son/daughter shouldn't be hearing that stuff...You know what? If they don't want to hear that stuff, then leave! Christmas is apart of our culture...That is what we celebrate. With a family deciding that we are no longer allowed to celebrate that in schools, sounds pretty demanding, to me.

[steff]

We (the UK) are doing everything to bring in immigrants (Labour are a bunch of tits) but fuck all to stop emmigration. Someone who works in the immigration centers has already said that the 45000 "undesirables" from Eastern Europe is going to be terrible for us yet they'll still be allowed in.

[VikesWookie]

What's an "undesirable"? They make it sound like you're getting 45,000 criminals. Anyone willing to work diligently, pay taxes and keep out of trouble should be allowed in any country.

[steff]

"undesirable" does imply criminals or potential security risks.

http://www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=57&newsID=8420

[dandaman]

lol, i was surfin the net and found a news article of some immigants trying to get into australia on a cargo freight. they government checked the cargo and they found loads of illegals in the cargo bay. they said to the captain of the vessel that they would use a submarine to blow the ship out of the water if they tried to dock. the captain said they couldnt do that because it was piracy (the 'yarr' kind). the government replied hat it wasnt legal to bring those people into the country. so the ship was turned around and sent off..

thats what we nee to do here. and the ones who scome in on the back of lorries should be booted straight out o the country.

too many do gooders if you ask me