reverse suiciding (vesting) debate *** keep it clean ***

[Kloaked Spirit]

would altering the gun range not help stop the suiciding/vesting?

change it from 1/3 to 1/2. the best gunners rairly shoot at 1/3 range anyway and sure would stop the suiciding of a player on 90mill by a shitty gunner on 30mill

Doing a static change will do absolutely nothing except penalize "legitimate gunners" as people like to call them. You all keep stating that these people are doing it for the sake of sheer mayhem and nothing more. So what will stop them from just getting more vests and staying within your range? If it's reduced from 1/3rd to 1/2, all I have to do now is get 45 million instead of 30 million. There is no one that is doing the vesting/suiciding to the degree that you're describing it that's so stupid of a player as to be affected by this. The truth is if your whole goal is to fuck with someone's round, you'll find ways to do it regardless of the settings in play. On top of that, there's not going to be anything that states it's illegal to do. Tactics like this have always been part of the game.

That's not to say there's no hope to stop it from happening as often. Most of the suggestions presented have already been addressed in this post (http://forum.oddthought.com/dopewars-online-ideas-suggestions-improvements/13872-suiciding-12.html#post217068). If it really becomes a major issue of balance, and not just an issue of the game as the players are taken it, we do have some ideas. As you can read there, the most likely suggestions would come in the form of a % of guns/vests loss scenario, depending on how close to winning the attacker was, or how effective an attacker has been in the past 72 hours.

[Forphucsake]

Doing a static change will do absolutely nothing except penalize "legitimate gunners" as people like to call them. You all keep stating that these people are doing it for the sake of sheer mayhem and nothing more. So what will stop them from just getting more vests and staying within your range? If it's reduced from 1/3rd to 1/2, all I have to do now is get 45 million instead of 30 million. There is no one that is doing the vesting/suiciding to the degree that you're describing it that's so stupid of a player as to be affected by this. The truth is if your whole goal is to fuck with someone's round, you'll find ways to do it regardless of the settings in play. On top of that, there's not going to be anything that states it's illegal to do. Tactics like this have always been part of the game.

That's not to say there's no hope to stop it from happening as often. Most of the suggestions presented have already been addressed in this post (http://forum.oddthought.com/dopewars-online-ideas-suggestions-improvements/13872-suiciding-12.html#post217068). If it really becomes a major issue of balance, and not just an issue of the game as the players are taken it, we do have some ideas. As you can read there, the most likely suggestions would come in the form of a % of guns/vests loss scenario, depending on how close to winning the attacker was, or how effective an attacker has been in the past 72 hours.

Effective gunning in medal rooms has been pretty much eliminated, how far does it have to go before its classed as unbalanced?

And for the effectiveness suggestion for this as well, 99% of jumps are won as its against decent gunners, so effectiveness within last 72 hours isn't really an issue.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Effective gunning in medal rooms has been pretty much eliminated, how far does it have to go before its classed as unbalanced?

But is it really a case of being unbalanced, or is this a case where the players have adapted and decided that gunners needed to stop having the free reign they brag about in the forums? There will be times where a certain strategy is not going to be the way to the top for a few rounds. It happens with machinists, credit sellers, and junkie players? Should gunners be immune?

Also the comments in this very thread would seem to indicate that the very thing some gunners were bragging about should still be viable (e.g. the whole "owning a room in 1 week" bragging.) Given what happened to Diezel last month, I'm pretty certain that suiciding and "lottoing" are still effective as well.

And for the effectiveness suggestion for this as well, 99% of jumps are won as its against decent gunners, so effectiveness within last 72 hours isn't really an issue.

But if people are "vesting you" and still winning jumps against you, you'd only take 5 hits a day. It doesn't seem like this is the case given the logs already posted here. I'd imagine that the jumping patterns 72 hours determining effectiveness would still be useful against both "suiciders/vesters."

Edit: Edited out call-outs that would've developed this into more AIW material.

[Chronic]

It appears at this time the situation is more complicated then a valid suggestion of how to fix it.

The thing i dont get is why so many people could care less about getting a decent gun score, while hindering a worth carts chances at a medal, anymore? Its just sew machine, vest up and jump, win or lose, and end with a shitty 20 mill score. How frickin boring but frustrating for legit gunners.

Trust me, i always worth so im new to the gun world. Yeah as a worther i hate getting jumped but u need some challenge in the game.

I can honestly say that this is the most boring round i have played in my 4+ years as well as frustrating.

A solution??? Hell, i wish i knew but you admin. see whats happening so please dont play us as fools.

Its great that more people have joined DW here but seems since a big influx of peeps have came in over the past 5 months or so, this damn vesting shit has started..............i hope it it was worth it to advertise to get donaters here, but the game is crashing.

[swiss miss]

i would rather they take my junkies than get moree jumps on me before i go in hospital and then lose junkies anyway? if they dont win the jump it just means they can burn more of my guns away...

yeah, that had slipped my mind - you want them to win the jumps so you go to hospital and they can only vest you 5 times a day rather than 20times if they lose the jumps :(..... which actually makes things more complicated becuase obviously there is no point gunners buying vests because they (whoever they may be) would cream themselves seeing them lose jumps and take more worth from you??

hmmmmm, lets bounce more ideas: could we reduce the number of jumps before you go to hospital to 4?? obviously this would affect real gunners and might not help much......

could we be put into hospital after 10 (just an example number) lost jumps on you per day??? (this would do away with suiciding, which i think we discussed was a bad idea)

these are both pretty rubbish ideas so it brings us back to the security issue if what dave says is true. i imagine most poeople in this thread would actually take this on the chin if they knew it was real people doing it and not bots/multies.... i know nothing about computers but there must be something we can do to reduce this even slightly, or even just to make the people doing it put more effort in to do it - it might discourage some.

in other news, lithium (~whoever you are~), youre a dirty low down un-gentlemanly player..... thats all.

[BIGRICK]

You hit the nail on the head there Jen, now you see the dilemma we (gunners) are in.

Just for clarity.

Vesting FACTS (from a gunners point of view)

-No Vests - Get jumped 5 times a day and loose a shit load of guns and a fair few junkies. ** Slight Drop in Score **

-With vests - Get Jumped 15 plus times a day losing an obscene amount of guns and eventually them them fair few junkies too. ** Game ruined in 1 day **

Vesting FACTS ( Vesters point of view)

Jump gunners worth more than them for a few junkies whilst losing a shit load of vests.

Benefits - None
Final score 20 - 30 mil <---- (well done fellas)


Personal opinion only

As gunner, I jump worthers (junkie players) keep there junkies and use the for money to buy guns. (obviously). Thus increasing my scrore so I can keep up with the Junkie players!!!

Every now and then retaliation jumps occurs (vesting) which is expected and can sometimes act as a deterrent to not jump that player again (fair enough)

Hopefully after giving the Junkie players a fun filled round requiring that actually use some skill to keep there scores up, I usually like to score around 120 - 130mil. (a good score if a full cartel of guns can do it) Thus actually giving worth cartels a challenge.

Vesters suck dick *cough*

This is not a thread moaning about how much PSD are getting vested so keep ya pants on PSD/UZ haters.

So anyone saying, well in B2 PSD vest us and blah blah, and UZ do this blah blah and Reds suck dick ( they do, but that's not the point)

This is a thread about the situation ALL gunners are faces with and how we can/can't combat it.


Lets stop pointing fingers and figure this shit out!!!!

The best Idea YET i think is -

Decrease jump range to players twice you worth.
Again it's not a cure, but its a step in the right direction.

:thumbs:

[ZERAT]

ok here is a thread dedicated to the topic


discuss .......

[Diogee]

LOL

I would assume you are talking about reverse suiciding, or ppl suiciding gunners with vests. But seriously Vesters sounds like a stupid name for ppl worthing if you ask me. So How about we go with reverse suiciders?

or do yo want to discuss the reverse suiciding? is that it?

Ohh well ppl need to stop crying about things that happen in a GAME in which ppl can do anything they want so long as it doesnt break the rules... guess what suiciding and reverse suiciding are both legal things to do... so shut up and get over it (thats for all you crying about it).

Ohh and using "Pullers" is legit as well so long as those accounts were not hijacked/cracked.

BLAH BLAH BLAH... Oh you still reading this :O :moon:

and to conclude... why the fuck isnt this in AIW :fing:

[cunexttuesday]

Reds suck dick ( they do, but that's not the point)

:mad:

[6m$SexGod]

Reds suck dick ( they do, but that's not the point)


:thumbs:

They do now!

haha

[herojuana]

:mad:

i dont hear a no....


i cant think of anything productive to say that will get rid of vesting. i just hope people grow up and realise that its not just about destroying a cart, its about getting a good score yourself also.

[cunexttuesday]

i dont hear a no....


i cant think of anything productive to say that will get rid of vesting. i just hope people grow up and realise that its not just about destroying a cart, its about getting a good score yourself also.


I honestly, don't know if there is a way to stop it. Do ya think it be just part of the cycle KS mentioned earlier?

[herojuana]

not so much. with gunning down the shitter, the only strat that can succeed is running junkies(possibly a selling strat every now and then), cos the machines cant keep up with them (and some are also gettin 20 mil scores burning off my guns :waiting:)

the cycle he was talking about (i think) is one strat being replaced by another strat that has adapted to deal with it, rather than just killing off the gunners giving junkies free range.

thats the way i see it at the minute anyway

[Carping]

DW USED TO BE A GAME THAT WAS FUN TO PLAY. WHERES THE FUN IN SIGNING IN TO SEE YOU BEEN VESTED 5X AND LOST X AMOUNT OF YOUR GUNS. LOSEING THE JUNKS IS NO BIGGIE FOR A GUNNER BUT GUNNERS CANT GUN AGAINST THE TOP JUNK PLAYERS IF THEY LOSEING THEIR GUNS THAT EASILY AND CANT KEEP UP.


i love playing this game but i am seriously thinking about following many of the other vets and finding a new game to play

[Jacx]

Ok here is the main problem. So many months ago more people joined the game. Many of them had a gunner mentality and this resulted in a lot of people complaining gunners were too strong.

As admins we have to decide to change the game, or leave it as is because we cannot always control the dynamics of a game that's defined by its players.

We decided to wait... and since as predicted the dynamics have yet again changed, again by the players. Now the gunners are not too strong, they are too weak.

Is this dynamics due to us not changing, or becuase of new ideas/player mentalities or a mix of both...I'm not sure.

Point is this, we could change some settings, resulting in a change of game play, however how do we predict how the players react to the change and again, in a few months will there be a issue again due to dynamics of the players changing again?

Basically is it down to us, down to you or down to us both to change the game? A admin change in settings can shake things up for sure, but cannot define how players will change the next cycle of change between the players themselves!

[EviLWaYz]

"vesting" is the worse thing to happen to the game since ive been playing it NEEDS TO BE STOPED SOME HOW!

sorry jacx if you've answered this in your post above i couldn't be bothered to read it all :hidey:

[6m$SexGod]

why dont you just set up a low stam gunner to hit you and keep you in hospital!

AZ on a whole different scale! lol

[Jacx]

"vesting" is the worse thing to happen to the game since ive been playing it NEEDS TO BE STOPED SOME HOW!

sorry jacx if you've answered this in your post above i couldn't be bothered to read it all :hidey:


vesting is not something new...you know that right?

[EviLWaYz]

vesting is not something new...you know that right?

yes but now nearly every one does it befor there was only a few

[Diogee]

lets go through the history of complaints

Complaint
OMG Junkie Players are too strong and gunners stand no chance B is just too easy

The Result
Suiciding to extremes

Complaint
OMFG the suiciding has become too crazy entire cartels wiping cartels NO FAIR whine...

The Result
Reverse Suiciding :O

Complaint

WHine no fair I cant gun blah blah Junkies are the only way to win BLah BLah

look it cycled Junkies have it too easy again :O

Look at what the admins did in these situations... NOTHING the players did it, the players have always caused the change.

I swear its like a cycle of Stupidity

[Jacx]

Right...and my point is this, sections of players steered it this way, if we admins don't do anything...will some bright spark come up with a idea and cause the game to be steered another way...that is basically whats always happened!

Im not saying we admins should not do anything, Im just trying to remind people its now always down to the admins, and any change we do make could cause another phase of cycles of player behavior that is unpredicted!

So not only do you have to come up with a idea of what could be changed by us to resolve this...but you also need to hire a fortune teller to predict how the players can change it again. Also will changes then result in a future change of style of game play that is worse than the current "crisis"?

[Carping]

1...alter jump range to 1/2 not 1/3 of players worth

2...cut jumps to a max of 3 a day after week1. (slows suicides and does not affect the best gunners who will only jump 1-2 times a day after that stage. this would also stop low stamina gunners juming 50x a day)

3...extend hospital time from 24hours to 36 hours for any player losing 5 jumps in any 24 hour period :thumbs: <<< I LIKE THIS IDEA ALOT

4...only allow players to jump if they have a min of 5-10% of guns compared to vests

jacx is right the players determine what happens in a room but surely something can be done to "LIMIT" the amount of "VESTING" - "SUICIDING" that goes on at any one point. we all understand this is part and parcel of the game but it has come to a point where people are not enjoying the game anymore.

IM NO ADMIN AND I CANT DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS BUT THOSE 4 IDEAS ARE JUST SOME THINGS I THINK WOULD BE WORTH CONSIDERING.
IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ANY IDEAS DONT BE AFRAID TO POST THEM. GOOD OR BAD WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE

[EviLWaYz]

1...alter jump range to 1/2 not 1/3 of players worth

2...cut jumps to a max of 3 a day after week1. (slows suicides and does not affect the best gunners who will only jump 1-2 times a day after that stage. this would also stop low stamina gunners juming 50x a day)

3...extend hospital time from 24hours to 36 hours for any player losing 5 jumps in any 24 hour period :thumbs: <<< I LIKE THIS IDEA ALOT

4...only allow players to jump if they have a min of 5-10% of guns compared to vests

jacx is right the players determine what happens in a room but surely something can be done to "LIMIT" the amount of "VESTING" - "SUICIDING" that goes on at any one point. we all understand this is part and parcel of the game but it has come to a point where people are not enjoying the game anymore.

IM NO ADMIN AND I CANT DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS BUT THOSE 4 IDEAS ARE JUST SOME THINGS I THINK WOULD BE WORTH CONSIDERING.
IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ANY IDEAS DONT BE AFRAID TO POST THEM. GOOD OR BAD WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE


shit with idea's like that.......CARPING FOR DW ADMIN! :haha:

i also love this guy>>>>>>>>:thumbs:

[Jacx]

1...alter jump range to 1/2 not 1/3 of players worth

2...cut jumps to a max of 3 a day after week1. (slows suicides and does not affect the best gunners who will only jump 1-2 times a day after that stage. this would also stop low stamina gunners juming 50x a day)

3...extend hospital time from 24hours to 36 hours for any player losing 5 jumps in any 24 hour period :thumbs: <<< I LIKE THIS IDEA ALOT

4...only allow players to jump if they have a min of 5-10% of guns compared to vests



so number 2 and 3...how do real worth gunners play the game...basically in order to stop vesting, were saying tough to the real gunners. I know u say they don't jump much more in the following weeks, but some do for strategic reasons!

We know there is different types of gunning, there is a gunner, whos job it us to screw with the rivals...its a needed part of the game and a relevant part. we have worth gunners and we have vesting gunners.

So whatever is suggested still needs to enable players who gun the ability to play against worth players and do their job.

[Carping]

they are just ideas JACX i am not saying that is what should happen but without people throwing their hand into the middle and giving suggestions nothing will ever change for the better

[Jacx]

they are just ideas JACX i am not saying that is what should happen but without people throwing their hand into the middle and giving suggestions nothing will ever change for the better


No don't get me wrong, I welcome the ideas, I'm also playing devils advocate becuase i have to. Im just commenting becuase if someone follows on with your idea they need to factor in everything.

[swiss miss]

Right...and my point is this, sections of players steered it this way, if we admins don't do anything...will some bright spark come up with a idea and cause the game to be steered another way...that is basically whats always happened!

Im not saying we admins should not do anything, Im just trying to remind people its now always down to the admins, and any change we do make could cause another phase of cycles of player behavior that is unpredicted!

So not only do you have to come up with a idea of what could be changed by us to resolve this...but you also need to hire a fortune teller to predict how the players can change it again. Also will changes then result in a future change of style of game play that is worse than the current "crisis"?

hi john

ive spoken to the a few people (gunners) about this issue and largely they think its NOT a "new section of players" steering the game in a different direction, but a select few making bots or multis and making it seem like a "new section of players" to reverse suicide the gunners..... i think this really needs clarification as i agree with you, altering the game to suit what could be a "whim" isnt the best idea..... but if its people cheating then the matter does need addressing.

[Raskil]

I have basically stopped playing in B1. I log on once a day to spend tokens on more machines but thats about all and it barely covers the losses from the vestings. The sad thing about it is because I have had my round ruined now from it I will go and return that favour to as many worthers as I can even though I am here now having a cry about it and it will just carry on. And I dont think you should change anything. As important as it is for a junkie runner to fly under the radar of a gunner I guess you can say the same thing is now required by a gunner. You might say its time for a few style to evolve. Gunners defending other gunners from vesters perhaps instead of gunners protecting worthers.

[Chronic]

hi john

ive spoken to the a few people (gunners) about this issue and largely they think its NOT a "new section of players" steering the game in a different direction, but a select few making bots or multis and making it seem like a "new section of players" to reverse suicide the gunners..... i think this really needs clarification as i agree with you, altering the game to suit what could be a "whim" isnt the best idea..... but if its people cheating then the matter does need addressing.



something is up concerning bots and multies....in the past if you messaged a "real person" telling them to blow me or some shit when they jumped u, they would respond back. I have messaged numerous of the vesters on me this round with no replies.....human nature makes u messgae back when your insulted and no one is messaging me back....................fishy

[Jacx]

In terms of multis...hey i can sit there and block proxys on a daily basis...still more will open on a daily basis but it might slow em down.

If there is bots...im not sure, mr Tim is more technical than me and might be able to answer than one, but thus far no real proof has been show for it to be true. I checked into one cart that was accused of being bots to find no team talk, no cab messages anything...yes i suspected...but then the giggles at my comment in their team talk suggested a cartel using a forum for all talk (apparently us admins are not trusted to look in on team talk)....(fair enough really).

Anyway yes i defere that answer to tim! If it is bots, can we resolve, if its not bots and remember this is only part of the issue, what else are we all suggesting here?

[Diezel]

1...alter jump range to 1/2 not 1/3 of players worth

2...cut jumps to a max of 3 a day after week1. (slows suicides and does not affect the best gunners who will only jump 1-2 times a day after that stage. this would also stop low stamina gunners juming 50x a day)

3...extend hospital time from 24hours to 36 hours for any player losing 5 jumps in any 24 hour period :thumbs: <<< I LIKE THIS IDEA ALOT

4...only allow players to jump if they have a min of 5-10% of guns compared to vests

jacx is right the players determine what happens in a room but surely something can be done to "LIMIT" the amount of "VESTING" - "SUICIDING" that goes on at any one point. we all understand this is part and parcel of the game but it has come to a point where people are not enjoying the game anymore.

IM NO ADMIN AND I CANT DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS BUT THOSE 4 IDEAS ARE JUST SOME THINGS I THINK WOULD BE WORTH CONSIDERING.
IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ANY IDEAS DONT BE AFRAID TO POST THEM. GOOD OR BAD WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE



Wrong

[Buzzin]

From other thread

Ok this whole UZ/PSD/Reds thing is getting old now, hey we might aswell just all admit Daqqs are the best cartel.. haha anyways that is not the point.

Im almost 100% sure it isnt reds behind the vesting in B1.. lol they wish they had that many players. The gunners in Reds and PSD are obviously the best gunners in the game, and we all know theres nothing a gunner can do against a huge number of people vesting your ass everyday, stop bitching at eachother and start thinking about something that could be changed!

Im'a throw a couple ideas out there..

Gunners losing half the amount of guns the vesters are losing vests: Say somoenes vesting you and you are losing 10,000 guns per jump, if the vester is losing 20,000 vests its going to make it alot easier for you outoworth these idiots if they are jumping 20 jumps a day

Jump range changed to 2X above your worth: Already suggested, keep it as 3 times below but change to 2X above, again, will make it alot easier for the gunners to escape these guys but will still keep it possible for them to vest a gunner aslong as they can keep their worth up.

Cant think of anything else yet but will post it if i do , i think we are going to have to accept mass vesting as part of the game, but also tone down how rediculously effective it is at taking out a whole gunner cartel if there is 20 vesters doing it. Any comments or criticism welcome but please dont be a twat about it :rolleyes: If you have nothing constructive to say then go spout your shit in some other thread, thanks :)

[seasider]

for me the real issue is the legitimacy of the accounts concerned. If they are somehow functioning or being operated in an illegal (against the rules) way then its the mother of all issues as it casts a shadow over the legitimacy of the results of the flagship game. If this is being done in a way thats beyond the ability of admin to detect, let alone prevent, then the game is screwed.

if admins are completely sure that all these 'vest suiciders' are 100% legit then just leave things as they are, who knows it might work out ok in the end.

[Raskil]

Well all I have to say is compare the handles that have been vesting me all round to the ones in these websites

http://futuremark.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470

and with this next one be warned it is R18 and if it will offend please dont view it

http://www.freedomtube.org/?page=13

x4
Mon Oct 6, 9:41 AM
• kimberly (#132) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 1 junkies, $5 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 12,788 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 120 guns and 23,561 vests.
x1
Mon Oct 6, 9:23 AM
• Cold Blue (#344) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 4 junkies, $8 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 11,234 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 109 guns and 22,298 vests.
x4
Sun Oct 5, 8:14 AM
• mzman (#555) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 3 junkies, $2 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 16,686 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 100 guns and 16,608 vests.
x1
Sun Oct 5, 8:01 AM
• if u read my name u suck (#505) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 4 junkies, $2 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 17,926 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 83 guns and 14,404 vests.
x5
Sat Oct 4, 6:31 AM
• hi there muffin :) (#571) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 3 junkies, $43 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 15,400 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 140 guns and 19,535 vests.
x2
Fri Oct 3, 5:10 AM
• Boondock_Saint (#606) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 2 junkies, $19 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 13,788 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 132 guns and 18,225 vests.
x3
Fri Oct 3, 4:22 AM
• MrWalker (#647) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 4 junkies, $26 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 13,696 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 109 guns and 13,500 vests.
x1
Thu Oct 2, 4:42 AM
• rothchilds (#224) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 1 junkies, $47 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 10,030 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 129 guns and 13,249 vests.
x4
Thu Oct 2, 4:11 AM
• if u read my name u suck (#505) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 7 junkies, $57 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 10,846 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 104 guns and 12,217 vests.
x1
Wed Oct 1, 4:18 AM
• ~Peachyy~ (#361) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 1 junkies, $12 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 7,363 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 163 guns and 13,819 vests.
x4
Wed Oct 1, 3:24 AM
• the one you love to h8 (#424) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 3 junkies, $10 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 11,419 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 156 guns and 13,094 vests.
x5
Mon Sep 29, 10:39 PM
• rothchilds (#224) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 5 junkies, $57 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 9,804 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 165 guns and 11,217 vests.
x1
Sun Sep 28, 9:21 PM
• Madgoat (#170) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 2 junkies, $45 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 5,638 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 132 guns and 7,901 vests.
x2
Sun Sep 28, 9:09 PM
• Irish Joe (#671) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 4 junkies, $59 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 8,092 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 124 guns and 8,485 vests.
x2
Sun Sep 28, 8:30 PM
• Bomberman (#279) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 10 junkies, $75 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 6,466 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 108 guns and 7,310 vests.
x1
Sat Sep 27, 3:15 PM
• cobee (#691) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 2 junkies, $68,559 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 3,974 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 173 guns and 7,860 vests.
x4
Sat Sep 27, 1:49 PM
• Sarge (#176) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 4 junkies, $83,851 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 6,573 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 85 guns and 6,482 vests.
x4
Fri Sep 26, 1:26 PM
• geforce_man (#708) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 3 junkies, $56 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 5,151 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 154 guns and 6,563 vests.
x1
Fri Sep 26, 12:48 PM
• grungekid (#196) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 12 junkies, $59 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 3,690 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 109 guns and 6,127 vests.
x2
Thu Sep 25, 9:56 AM
• nahus (#562) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 2 junkies, $57 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 4,273 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 181 guns and 5,878 vests.
x2
Thu Sep 25, 9:31 AM
• bobadidlio (#643) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 6 junkies, $54 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 4,104 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 150 guns and 4,313 vests.
x1
Thu Sep 25, 9:20 AM
• DoPeBoY (#376) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 13 junkies, $77 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 3,134 guns and 92 vests. Your opponent lost 170 guns and 4,712 vests.

[Diogee]

sorry but how is that vesting?

[Chronic]

sorry but how is that vesting?



look at all the vests the supposed gunner is losing. They shouldnt have the amount of vests in the first place if they are a pure tru gunner. They are losing very little guns with their jumps so they are vest gunners

[Smash Bros]

From Tca

Im in two minds about the entire argument, being on the end of cunts in B1 at the moment while running machines, an entire cartel of seemingly, people just out to jump me on machines and burn my vests up (southside cartel, you cunts WILL pay) this begs an interesting question.

Are said persons/people, trying to commit exactly what SA Banjo done ages ago in A games? Thugged and jumped so many people, they're cartels ended up winning, im not sure if thats what happening here, but ponder it like this, are these persons/people involved in the fucking up of people in B1 trying to force people to run junkies again?

Legal or not and i highly doubt its legal, even SA Banjo wasn't legal back in the day, but everything yous are suggesting, i highly doubt will stop it, the game will re-evolve with some monster cartel scores, due to the junkie runners not being touched, then hopefully, these persons/people will fuck off.

[Smash Bros]

look at all the vests the supposed gunner is losing. They shouldnt have the amount of vests in the first place if they are a pure tru gunner. They are losing very little guns with their jumps so they are vest gunners

from me :D

rofl you have got to be kidding me?? your fairly new here aye??

in a jump it works like this:

vests hit guns

guns hit vests

now if they are hitting a "pure tru gunner" then they would have little/no vests meaning they would loose little/no guns

and the opposite is true.

yes i could be wrong but from the years i played this game this is what happened. and i am sure tim/another admin will support that.

onto other things.

diogee and jacx have it right. it is ALWAYS the players the make the strats what they are.

for clairfication.

a few years ago it used to work like this in B games.

1 round you run junkies next you run credit selling. why?? cause heaps of junkies run and that raises the demand for credits. on seeing this people would run credit selling the next round and crash the market as there are too many of them.

vest gunning isnt new and i used to do it myself. i used to run cartels of it actually.

yes it may be more server now BUT if all the gunners stop gunning and run junkies for 2+ rounds i can garuntee that the "vesters" will quit and start doing a different strat. it has always been like this and always will.

onto bots. jacx i know that there are some scripts out there. tim knows of them aswell as i pointed them out to him. i have the link to it and due to me not being stupid ill pass it on to you on msn/a pm. there are more then likely more out there that arent listed here either though.

[Kloaked Spirit]

1...alter jump range to 1/2 not 1/3 of players worth

2...cut jumps to a max of 3 a day after week1. (slows suicides and does not affect the best gunners who will only jump 1-2 times a day after that stage. this would also stop low stamina gunners juming 50x a day)

3...extend hospital time from 24hours to 36 hours for any player losing 5 jumps in any 24 hour period :thumbs: <<< I LIKE THIS IDEA ALOT

4...only allow players to jump if they have a min of 5-10% of guns compared to vests

jacx is right the players determine what happens in a room but surely something can be done to "LIMIT" the amount of "VESTING" - "SUICIDING" that goes on at any one point. we all understand this is part and parcel of the game but it has come to a point where people are not enjoying the game anymore.

IM NO ADMIN AND I CANT DECIDE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THIS BUT THOSE 4 IDEAS ARE JUST SOME THINGS I THINK WOULD BE WORTH CONSIDERING.
IF ANYONE ELSE HAS ANY IDEAS DONT BE AFRAID TO POST THEM. GOOD OR BAD WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE

#1 - Solves absolutely nothing. As already stated, if people are going to vest you for the sake of killing your gun count, they'll just machine up until a point where it's going to be next to impossible for you to get to be more than 2x the worth. I know I can run a simple machine strategy and always be in a position to pulverize a gunner or a few of them.

#2 - This will destroy all legitimate means of worth gunning. I guarantee that legitimate gunners, let alone other legitimate strategies like low stamina gunning, will gun more than 3 times a week.

#3 - I assume you mean you can't gun again after that time period? If so, I think there are better methods that have been suggested that aren't as harsh against legitimate gunners.

#4 - This stops nothing. Once again, if people are doing this for the sake of pissing off gunners, they'll just do a ratio of 1 gun press : 12 sewing machines or whatever, and still hit you extremely hard. The only thing that stops are very intriguing strategies that could become the new gunning strategy in a couple of months that have already been discussed here.

-------------------

Regarding bots: That will have to be the domain of Tim/John. I really couldn't track them down with the admin panel. I could possibly do multi-sweeps more often, but that'd be it.

[ruffnready]

fuck me all these debates whatever happened to the good old fashioned gunner,iv not gunned v2 yet and was looking forward to coming back for little fun,looks like some peeps are ruining it all for us,so what`s the problem,from reading several threads it just seams like gunners were gettin to good for all the junkie players that there were,before i left every major cartel reds/daqqs/LR to name a few all would win through junkies(couple sellers threw in) so gunnin was great,but some gunners got pissed of,would i be correct in stating that whats brought on the vesting is the mass suiciding all cartels were usually subjected too,changing the dynamics of the game wont stop it,trying to get it into most peoples heads if it does`nt stop the game will die,without having gunners the game loses the enjoyment of playing,vesting/suiciding we need the players to realize there driving the game down the lavvy,,ruff

[Smash Bros]

fuck me all these debates whatever happened to the good old fashioned gunner,iv not gunned v2 yet and was looking forward to coming back for little fun,looks like some peeps are ruining it all for us,so what`s the problem,from reading several threads it just seams like gunners were gettin to good for all the junkie players that there were,before i left every major cartel reds/daqqs/LR to name a few all would win through junkies(couple sellers threw in) so gunnin was great,but some gunners got pissed of,would i be correct in stating that whats brought on the vesting is the mass suiciding all cartels were usually subjected too,changing the dynamics of the game wont stop it,trying to get it into most peoples heads if it does`nt stop the game will die,without having gunners the game loses the enjoyment of playing,vesting/suiciding we need the players to realize there driving the game down the lavvy,,ruff

hey ruff

after you left some gunners came out and started owning everyone. they got more cocky then reds did and now are getting owned.

its karma really. happened to every great cartel in the game

[Calienta]

Those are very interesting websites actually, I found many of the names of our so-called Raz crew that were smashing Dharma and UZ to bits a few rounds ago.

[seasider]

If you click on those names you usually find they have not been seen for 6 months - 1 year. You also would notice that many of them are DW players from back in the day that haven't been seen for years. Funny how all these formerly inactive players have returned from obscurity just to suicide.

[Chronic]

from me :D

rofl you have got to be kidding me?? your fairly new here aye??

in a jump it works like this:

vests hit guns

guns hit vests

now if they are hitting a "pure tru gunner" then they would have little/no vests meaning they would loose little/no guns

and the opposite is true.

yes i could be wrong but from the years i played this game this is what happened. and i am sure tim/another admin will support that.

onto other things.

diogee and jacx have it right. it is ALWAYS the players the make the strats what they are.

for clairfication.

a few years ago it used to work like this in B games.

1 round you run junkies next you run credit selling. why?? cause heaps of junkies run and that raises the demand for credits. on seeing this people would run credit selling the next round and crash the market as there are too many of them.

vest gunning isnt new and i used to do it myself. i used to run cartels of it actually.

yes it may be more server now BUT if all the gunners stop gunning and run junkies for 2+ rounds i can garuntee that the "vesters" will quit and start doing a different strat. it has always been like this and always will.

onto bots. jacx i know that there are some scripts out there. tim knows of them aswell as i pointed them out to him. i have the link to it and due to me not being stupid ill pass it on to you on msn/a pm. there are more then likely more out there that arent listed here either though.


Roll on the floor all u want.....and read the post while you are there.

Been here as long as you, yes vest hit guns and vice versa thus vesters have very little guns and alot of vests thus when they jump a gunner, the gunner loses tons of guns and the vester loses tons of vests and little guns.

Obviously they have a small amount of gun machines and are buying sewing machines, thus the amount of their vests and the huge amount they are losing.

Gunners that do only that, obviously buy gun machines and guns, not vests and guns, and definitely not more vests then guns.

Now if you look at the gunners talking about getting vested posts, you will see that they are losing a shitload of guns, very little to no vests because usually a gunner dont buy them and the vest gunner is losing very few guns, due to a small amount of gun machines owned by them, but a ton of vests because they are running sew machines and buying mainly vests.

Maybe you didnt understand my previous post.

If the person jumping you isnt losing many vests but a bunch of guns, obviously they are gunning, buying gun presses and guns....not sew machines and buying vests

[Diogee]

to me vesting would be getting no guns so you lose and they dont go into hospital. Worthers hitting gunners for extra junkies has happened for YEARS ive done it on many occasions in fact it why so many reds did soo good :O think an extra 100-200 junkies early can pull you ahead of many gunners. The trick is to know when its starting to hurt you... ussually when the gunners start to catch you in worth. Than the rest of this tricky strat is... wait for it... reselling :O

I hate to give such awesome details away to noobs but hey not like they wouldnt figure it out but can they master it? like knowing when to gun gunners for extra junkies and when to stop? or knowing when to start reselling credits? anyways I have said too much... than again most ppl know this just suck at doing it.

[Kloaked Spirit]

You all better pray that my theories about how to properly "suicide/reverse suicide" are dead wrong. The admin panel doesn't state that I am, but Tim just might bust my bubble. If he can't do that, then pray that someone else doesn't get the same ideas that I get.

Edit: I was still right, but not to the devastating effect that I thought I'd be right.

[newportbadboy]

to me vesting would be getting no guns so you lose and they dont go into hospital. Worthers hitting gunners for extra junkies has happened for YEARS ive done it on many occasions in fact it why so many reds did soo good :O think an extra 100-200 junkies early can pull you ahead of many gunners. The trick is to know when its starting to hurt you... ussually when the gunners start to catch you in worth. Than the rest of this tricky strat is... wait for it... reselling :O

I hate to give such awesome details away to noobs but hey not like they wouldnt figure it out but can they master it? like knowing when to gun gunners for extra junkies and when to stop? or knowing when to start reselling credits? anyways I have said too much... than again most ppl know this just suck at doing it.



Reds still do it..They jump me back once in awhile BUT this is something different...

here is my shitty b1 gunning stats

Working Junkies 823
Training Junkies 0
Gun Machines 2,494
Sewing Machines 0
Drug Lab Size 15
Textbooks 2

ArsenalGuns 1,334,700
Vests 0
Thugs 6,950
Stamina 200%

and these are the last 5 jumps made on me

Fri Oct 10, 3:54 AM
• Cold Blue (#344) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 40 junkies, $352,952 and 1 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 23,514 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 520 guns and 26,920 vests.
Thu Oct 9, 4:15 PM
• Boondock_Saint (#606) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 8 junkies, $263,062 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 16,854 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 405 guns and 20,882 vests.
Thu Oct 9, 4:14 PM
• Boondock_Saint (#606) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 15 junkies, $349,336 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 23,223 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 402 guns and 25,470 vests.
Thu Oct 9, 4:14 PM
• Boondock_Saint (#606) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 23 junkies, $287,735 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 19,635 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 493 guns and 21,685 vests.
Thu Oct 9, 4:13 PM
• Boondock_Saint (#606) jumped you and was able to beat you down. They made off with 31 junkies, $352,441 and 0 square feet worth of drug lab equipement. In the shoot-out you lost 20,111 guns and 0 vests. Your opponent lost 564 guns and 20,545 vests.


As u can see i lost about 102k guns...thats over 3 mil in worth....plus I lost 118 Junkies...:bleh:


I know someone who bought a bit vests to get rid of the vesters( i dont know what was he thinking) But he lost 15 mil in worth...Just wanted to show u whats going on :P

[Buzzin]

OVerkill it isnt gunning for more junks.. its just vesting gunners for the crack, pure ghey!

[$treet pharmaci$t]

I think if it is real people doing the vesting they will have to get bored with it and hopefully stop soon. If someone is behind it they are just retarded and need to stop

[newportbadboy]

Underneath the Sky
Wed Oct 8, 3:36 PM
hello everyone
lady here
weve swapped around so that the higher 1s are in the other cart, hoping that this will help them to scrape a medal
anyone that wants to vest/gun gunners feel free ive added alist

also we are lacking on peoples passes so can you get them to us asap so we can move you if needed as there will be some in here that should be in the other cartel
Reply • Private Message
Underneath the Sky
Wed Oct 8, 3:37 PM
dont be downhearted weve had a grat run just lately and we will again, we are working our socks off for next round making some exciting plans
Reply • Private Message
Underneath the Sky
Wed Oct 8, 3:44 PM
if we get everyone move asap i think we are still in with a good chance

so come onguys
Reply • Private Message
Underneath the Sky
Thu Oct 9, 2:07 AM
thanks to hose who have ent theres now, theres still a few more

cheers
Reply • Private Message




This got my attention in B1 gt. Hmmmmm

[Raskil]

I think I just owned a Red or did I not Engin :P

[Beckjo1]

i know it is real people with rel accounts. some gunning cartels are even including vesters from the beginning to neutralize the gunners going after their worthers. i don't see the problem with it.

junkie players put their neck out there. gunners beat the shit out of them when they find them. For one of their vesters to turn around and take some of those junkies back and knock the gunners down seems only right to me.

gunners going after ther gunners causes no damage beyond lost junkies BUT a vester going after a gunner might just make that gunner think twice about beating the shit out of a junkie player repeately or at the very least help the junkie player get out of the gunners range. When a gunner hits a junkie player they lost a shitload of vests and junkies. Turn about is fair play as far as i am concerned. let the gunner lose guns and junkies themselves.

my two cents

I think if it is real people doing the vesting they will have to get bored with it and hopefully stop soon. If someone is behind it they are just retarded and need to stop

[herojuana]

read the rest of the thread...

[Beckjo1]

i did

my opinion is what comes around goes around and i see no problem with reverse vesting. i believe the majority of it is real people with legitimate accounts.

as far as i am concerned, gunning carts protecting a worth cartel should recruit some vesters to deal with other gunners. It is pretty effetive.

Suiciding is prt of the game. Can't count the number of times I was suicided since I started playing.

[herojuana]

your talking about the worth carts recruiting these vesters. as far as i can tell, they havnt. its just twats trying to fuck up the game. seems to be about the general consensus

[Beckjo1]

no i am talking about gunning cartels protecting a worthing cartel recruiting these vesters to bring down the gunners hitting their worthers.

my guess is the consensus is a bunch of unhappy gunners.

it's a different way of dealing with gunners and it must be effective or all the gunners wouldnt be here complaining.

[Zeus]

i did

my opinion is what comes around goes around and i see no problem with reverse vesting. i believe the majority of it is real people with legitimate accounts.

as far as i am concerned, gunning carts protecting a worth cartel should recruit some vesters to deal with other gunners. It is pretty effetive.

Suiciding is prt of the game. Can't count the number of times I was suicided since I started playing.


You didnt read the whole thread. It isnt worth cartels having a gun cart to protect them. Its 2 vest cartels to vest gunners, and 2 gun cartels just to fuck with worthers. If it was tied to an actual legitimate worth cartel, that cartel would pay dearly for such tactic. Gunner guns you, you send vester to vest gunner, it isnt helping you one bit but pissing gunners off even more and then suiciding becomes the next practice when jumps become unsuccessful. Crap tactics = poor game play = ppl leaving = no more competition.

[herojuana]

no i am talking about gunning cartels protecting a worthing cartel recruiting these vesters to bring down the gunners hitting their worthers.

my guess is the consensus is a bunch of unhappy gunners.

it's a different way of dealing with gunners and it must be effective or all the gunners wouldnt be here complaining.

im confused...

[Beckjo1]

id red the whole thread.

dont you think gunners piss worthers off? seems to me that this is their revenge and it is working.

You didnt read the whole thread. It isnt worth cartels having a gun cart to protect them. Its 2 vest cartels to vest gunners, and 2 gun cartels just to fuck with worthers. If it was tied to an actual legitimate worth cartel, that cartel would pay dearly for such tactic. Gunner guns you, you send vester to vest gunner, it isnt helping you one bit but pissing gunners off even more and then suiciding becomes the next practice when jumps become unsuccessful. Crap tactics = poor game play = ppl leaving = no more competition.

[Beckjo1]

gunning cartels jump the shit out of junkie players in a cartel

that cartel has vesters attached to their gunning carel go after the gunners to take some junkies back and knock down the gunners worh so their junkie players can get out of the range of the gunners... and as a revenge measure.



im confused...

[Zeus]

id red the whole thread.

dont you think gunners piss worthers off? seems to me that this is their revenge and it is working.


Pissed off at gunners for playing a more organized strategy? You have a weak argument and not helping with the point of this whole thread.

[Beckjo1]

pisse off worthers finding a way to get their revenge. i see nothing wrong with it.

any argument that doesnt back the pissed off gunners would be considered weak and not helping the gunners who want something done.


can i hear from a worther who has been raped and suicided?
Revenge is a two way street. I think worthers got sick of being told they should just take the hits from the gunners and here is your result. they have found a way o get their revenge.

Pissed off at gunners for playing a more organized strategy? You have a weak argument and not helping with the point of this whole thread.

[herojuana]

if it was such a great idea on behalf of the worthers, why do they all so keenly disassociate themselves with it??

[Beckjo1]

because gunners en mass would bring their entire cartel down for even thinking of such things?

i am not saying it is not a shitty tactic, i am saying i can understand the thinking behind it. I hadnt even thought of it until i saw this thread yesterday.

if it was such a great idea on behalf of the worthers, why do they all so keenly disassociate themselves with it??

[seasider]

so what grounds do you have to assert that the majority of the accounts are genuine?

but lets assume they are. this means significant numbers of players are participating with the sole purpose of vesting gunners. You have to wonder about these players. There are over 100 players with some strange similarities; all handles are inactive accounts from this and other game forums, they all run the same strat as each other in pretty much exactly the same way so their scores are usually within a few 100k each other, they always seem to have very detailed info on their targets and none of them have dispersed into the game to play different strats for different cartels.

who knows? maybe its a quasi-religious internet cult or something, seems awfully strange to me though.

anyway, regardless of whether they are legit or not the question is more about the perceived problem of mass reverse suiciding and not so much about vesting in itself which has always been part of the game. some people feel it is having a negative effect on the game because of how extensive it has become. the issue is complicated by the widely held view that many of the accounts are not legitimate.

would you change your view if you learned that the accounts in question were not legitimate?

[Beckjo1]

i would not change my views on vesting itself. i asked around and was told yes, there are several legitimate vesters in a4. I did not ask elsewere.

tell me more about these 100 players. what room(s) are you talking about? I read all that before but really believe there are many legitimate vesters. These people have really done their homework if there is 100+ of them using inactive player names.

illigitimates should be weeded out, sure. Changing game rules though, no.
overall, i am totally against cheaters.

so what grounds do you have to assert that the majority of the accounts are genuine?

but lets assume they are. this means significant numbers of players are participating with the sole purpose of vesting gunners. You have to wonder about these players. There are over 100 players with some strange similarities; all handles are inactive accounts from this and other game forums, they all run the same strat as each other in pretty much exactly the same way so their scores are usually within a few 100k each other, they always seem to have very detailed info on their targets and none of them have dispersed into the game to play different strats for different cartels.

who knows? maybe its a quasi-religious internet cult or something, seems awfully strange to me though.

anyway, regardless of whether they are legit or not the question is more about the perceived problem of mass reverse suiciding and not so much about vesting in itself which has always been part of the game. some people feel it is having a negative effect on the game because of how extensive it has become. the issue is complicated by the widely held view that many of the accounts are not legitimate.

would you change your view if you learned that the accounts in question were not legitimate?

[Zeus]

pisse off worthers finding a way to get their revenge. i see nothing wrong with it.

any argument that doesnt back the pissed off gunners would be considered weak and not helping the gunners who want something done.


can i hear from a worther who has been raped and suicided?
Revenge is a two way street. I think worthers got sick of being told they should just take the hits from the gunners and here is your result. they have found a way o get their revenge.

I play both sides of the fence. I worth and Gun and have experienced both vesting and suiciding for over 3 years now. Why do you keep saying "revenge" for something that was your fault to begin with. This thread isnt about "revenge", its about figuring out ways to balance the game better thus maybe weakening your "revenge" tactic against a superior strategy whether it being suiciding or vesting. Your whole argument is biased.

[Beckjo1]

why would someone accumulating junkies and being raped by a gunner be their fault? it's a worthers fault for running a junkie strat, being raped by gunners, and getting mad about it. LOL

worthers have been pissed at gunners for as long as i can remember for screwing their legitimate strategies and now that they have found a way to screw the gunners the gunners want something done about it.

if they are illigitimate accounts, report them and weed them out. if they are vesting to avenge their worthers being raped legitimately I see no problem with it.

i worth and gun as well. i've been around awhile as too although i did stop playing for over a year in the middle and came back in March.

As long as I played, it always seemed the game balanced itself out. It is not "my" revenge tactic. I just read about it yesterday and started asking around. Look at when resigned up here and when my posts have been. Very rarely do I have the time to hang out and read this forum.

I play both sides of the fence. I worth and Gun and have experienced both vesting and suiciding for over 3 years now. Why do you keep saying "revenge" for something that was your fault to begin with. This thread isnt about "revenge", its about figuring out ways to balance the game better thus maybe weakening your "revenge" tactic against a superior strategy whether it being suiciding or vesting. Your whole argument is biased.

[Zeus]

why would someone accumulating junkies and being raped by a gunner be their fault? it's a worthers fault for running a junkie strat, being raped by gunners, and getting mad about it. LOL

worthers have been pissed at gunners for as long as i can remember for screwing their legitimate strategies and now that they have found a way to screw the gunners the gunners want something done about it.

if they are illigitimate accounts, report them and weed them out. if they are vesting to avenge their worthers being raped legitimately I see no problem with it.

i worth and gun as well. i've been around awhile as too although i did stop playing for over a year in the middle and came back in March.

As long as I played, it always seemed the game balanced itself out. It is not "my" revenge tactic. I just read about it yesterday and started asking around. Look at when resigned up here and when my posts have been. Very rarely do I have the time to hang out and read this forum.


Im done with you, you are stuck on revenge and cant seem to pull away from fixing a problem but perpetuating a never ending cycle with revenge.

[seasider]

i would not change my views on vesting itself. i asked around and was told yes, there are several legitimate vesters in a4. I did not ask elsewere.

tell me more about these 100 players. what room(s) are you talking about? I read all that before but really believe there are many legitimate vesters. These people have really done their homework if there is 100+ of them using inactive player names.

illigitimates should be weeded out, sure. Changing game rules though, no.
overall, i am totally against cheaters.

the carts we're referring to are predominantly in B1 mate. i don't know what you're up to in A4 but its not the subject of this discussion.

[Beckjo1]

i'm not "up to" anything in A4.

someone states their opinion that doesn't coincide with yours and we must be up to something.

I'm in A1 and B1 but I really prefer the fun rooms. A1 & B1 are too cut throat and mean spirited for me.

I'm sure this all means much more in a medal room. The illigitimate accounts should be dealt with but changing he current game play dynamics is not the answer.

[BIGRICK]

I seriously doubt you have read ALL of this thread properly.

Infact it was carried on from another thread. forget which 1 and cant be arsed to find it. You should read that 1 too

[Beckjo1]

i knew when i started reading it, the convo had been carried over. i looked around some but never found it. i'd like t read the originl thread.

and yes, i read and comprehend the thread. I just have my own opinion on this.

[BIGRICK]

OK i stopped being lazy

http://forum.oddthought.com/dopewars-online-ideas-suggestions-improvements/16219-medal-rooms-enough-rooms.html

Have fun ( hours of it)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions just dont expect anyone to agree with them LMAO :D

[Beckjo1]

LOL :trudat:

thanks. i'll go and read it. i happen to have a couple hours

OK i stopped being lazy

http://forum.oddthought.com/dopewars-online-ideas-suggestions-improvements/16219-medal-rooms-enough-rooms.html

Have fun ( hours of it)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions just dont expect anyone to agree with them LMAO :D

[herojuana]

do you really think that a cart has enough spare members to get at least 2 full carts of 'reverse suiciders'? reds have enough players to do it, but they all (try :P) and worth as that is the best tactic to win rather than battle gunners.

[Beckjo1]

sure do.

even more so after going back and reading all 20 pages of the last thread. Zeus himself states in there that jacx went and checked these people, found nothing and confirmed they are real people. shall I go get Zeus' post and copy it here?

from what I read, it isn't reds either. My guess is it s a bunch of facebook players who feel like screwing up the game just like they have done the credit markets a couple times recently.

The game will eventually evolve and they will find something else. Now that this thread exists more people wil think about this and use this to combat gunners. The whining here will encourage more of the same.

I said before, worthers are told to take the hits and move on. Now gunners are in the same boat. There really isnt much anyone can do about this since it IS real players. They are playing within the game rules.

do you really think that a cart has enough spare members to get at least 2 full carts of 'reverse suiciders'? reds have enough players to do it, but they all (try :P) and worth as that is the best tactic to win rather than battle gunners.

[Beckjo1]

here we go. went back and got it anyway. this was looked into. i'm standing by my facebook guess.

Thanks for your replies Jen. These ppl who are up to this are from either or both an online gaming community and or porn community as far as I can track them or none at all and bots like before with a small handful of ppl directing this charade. Its definite that they work in an organized cell(s) and found all the weak holes in our admins game setup. Like for instance, a 3 lab, 51 junkie gun press strat can hum along for a week and then kill any top junkie cartel out there, take them out at 3 jumps a day matter of factly. In the same turn, they are unleashing 2 full cartels of machinist with the same strat, 3 lab, 51 junkies, all sewing machines with some guns and thugs to take on gunners to vest, thug, and steal junkies while scoring a mind blowing 70 mil scores. As for scanning and other multiple attempts at thwarting them (funny how tim is ignorant to this for 5 ROUNDS in a row) but anyhoo, Jacx cant find shit which leads me to believe they are actual ppl.

[seasider]

so your guess is that a large organised group of people have effectively invaded the game with the intention of damaging it.

this analysis leads you to the conclusion that nothing should be done about it.

fair summary?

As for A4, I wasn't accusing you of anything, you were the one to bring up A4. I was just informing you that this topic wasn't really about whatever you might be doing there. Unless you are orchestrating an army of suspect accounts to the massive detriment of all but one cartel who seemingly have no knowledge of, let alone control over.

[Beckjo1]

yes my opinion is nothing should be done. they are playing within the rules of the game. in time it will end. they ran around trashing credit markets for the last couple rounds but this round b1 and b4 were pretty good. dare i say they were back to normal.

they came in a few rounds ago and did a shitload of suiciding, wreaking havoc and intentionally damaging worth cartels just for the sport of it. They moved o o credit markets. Now its reverse suiciding. Heaven forbid if they jump in here during a round and decide to hit all three areas at once. There are enough facebook players to do it too.

the game will cycle just as it always does. it might take longer now though since people are whining. you guys have just encouraged them to do this for at least another round. You've opened worthers eyes to this tactic as well which will create more reverse suiciders. They have pissed you gunners off and i am sure they are loving it (and these threads.)

Was the game ever changed because the worthers were pissed about being wiped out by gunners? nope. I've seen many worthers quit, give up or switch to gunning because they were sick of being smashed. it shouldnt be changed because the same is now happening to gunners.

so your guess is that a large organised group of people have effectively invaded the game with the intention of damaging it.

this analysis leads you to the conclusion that nothing should be done about it.

fair summary?

As for A4, I wasn't accusing you of anything, you were the one to bring up A4. I was just informing you that this topic wasn't really about whatever you might be doing there. Unless you are orchestrating an army of suspect accounts to the massive detriment of all but one cartel who seemingly have no knowledge of, let alone control over.

[seasider]

the game will cycle just as it always does. it might take longer now though since people are whining. you guys have just encouraged them to do this for at least another round. You've opened worthers eyes to this tactic as well which will create more reverse suiciders. They have pissed you gunners off and i am sure they are loving it (and these threads.)

I'm getting the impression that you think this has only just reared its head. this is far from the truth, it has been going on for some time now. All the time of the single medal room has been plagued with them so it seems sitting doing nothing is unlikely to resolve anything

Was the game ever changed because the worthers were pissed about being wiped out by gunners? nope. I've seen many worthers quit, give up or switch to gunning because they were sick of being smashed. it shouldnt be changed because the same is now happening to gunners.

this is where you are quite wrong, significant changes have been made to the game because of worthers complaining that gunners were overpowering the game making it unbalanced

[Calienta]

And beckjo, just because it hasn't been proven that these accounts are fake, does not mean they're not. I'm sure there are very smart people out there who can fool the tools Jacx has in place for catching cheats.

[seasider]

this neatly brings us to the substantive issue; can such a large number of coordinated accounts be operated illegitimately beyond the reach of game admin? surely such a prospect is anathema to the entire game

[Beckjo1]

oh really? tell me all about these significant changes made to benefit worthers. are you talking when we went from v1 to v2?

reverse suiciding is part of the game. i wonder how many people have created accounts just to do this after reading this thread in your B1 room? Many? I could easily put together another 20 worthers who'd love to spend a round hitting gunners. Good thing i have other plans in B1 tho.

Medal rooms are the only ones that matter. Cartels are going to do whatever it takes to win, including using reverse suiciders. Tell me why gunners should be able to suicide a player and worthers should not be suiciding them back?
It is a great tool for a worthing cartel.

I'm getting the impression that you think this has only just reared its head. this is far from the truth, it has been going on for some time now. All the time of the single medal room has been plagued with them so it seems sitting doing nothing is unlikely to resolve anything



this is where you are quite wrong, significant changes have been made to the game because of worthers complaining that gunners were overpowering the game making it unbalanced

[Zeus]

oh really? tell me all about these significant changes made to benefit worthers. are you talking when we went from v1 to v2?

reverse suiciding is part of the game. i wonder how many people have created accounts just to do this after reading this thread in your B1 room? Many? I could easily put together another 20 worthers who'd love to spend a round hitting gunners. Good thing i have other plans in B1 tho.

Medal rooms are the only ones that matter. Cartels are going to do whatever it takes to win, including using reverse suiciders. Tell me why gunners should be able to suicide a player and worthers should not be suiciding them back?
It is a great tool for a worthing cartel.


It destroys the whole integrity of the game, soon there will be no gunners and it will come down to who can low hoard the best. You really want to play a game like that? Again, why do you think this thread is here? wake up whoever you are, your thinking does nothing but ruin the game even further.

[Buzzin]

Wow Beckjo people like you are the reason this thread is a waste of time. Let me spell something out to you here i dont know if you havent realised it or are just ignoring it

THESE VESTERS ARENT PLAYING FOR REVENGE OR FOR ANOTHER CARTEL, ITS PURELY TO BE CUNTS

That is all, im sure thats what Zeus has been tryin to explain for the past 2 pages :P

[seasider]

significant changes include hospitalising targets after they been successfully jumped 5 times.

[Zeus]

Wow Beckjo people like you are the reason this thread is a waste of time. Let me spell something out to you here i dont know if you havent realised it or are just ignoring it

THESE VESTERS ARENT PLAYING FOR REVENGE OR FOR ANOTHER CARTEL, ITS PURELY TO BE CUNTS

That is all, im sure thats what Zeus has been tryin to explain for the past 2 pages :P

well that and to contradict Beckjo's mentality towards the game.

[Beckjo1]

gee,

let me count the worthers who gave up on worthing and either quit the game or switched to gunning because of gunners.

i think it evens out.

i'm in b1 and i surely don't see a lack of gunners in there at all this round. Probably more than last round, in fact.

Why is this thread here? not sure. to me it is a bunch of gunners crying about being vested. You yourself were led to believe these were real people. This is happening to the heavy hitting gunners, not all gunners. Your dominance has been taken away and you don't like it so we have this thread. The more you whine the funner it is for them.

People were crying that the credit crashers were destroying the integrity of the game. Everyone was running around looking for admins to change rules to do something about it.

I am sure ther will be a new whine soon claiming the integrity is being destroyed. You play within the game rules. I play within the game rules. They play within the game rules. We deal with whatever comes our way. You don't reinvent the game, you cope. I am wide awake.

It destroys the whole integrity of the game, soon there will be no gunners and it will come down to who can low hoard the best. You really want to play a game like that? Again, why do you think this thread is here? wake up whoever you are, your thinking does nothing but ruin the game even further.

[Calienta]

i'm in b1 and i surely don't see a lack of gunners in there at all this round. Probably more than last round, in fact.


It's one day into the round, you shouldn't be seeing the decent gunners at this stage anyway.

[Beckjo1]

cunts or not, it is within the rules

i agree. this thread is a waste of time.

Wow Beckjo people like you are the reason this thread is a waste of time. Let me spell something out to you here i dont know if you havent realised it or are just ignoring it

THESE VESTERS ARENT PLAYING FOR REVENGE OR FOR ANOTHER CARTEL, ITS PURELY TO BE CUNTS

That is all, im sure thats what Zeus has been tryin to explain for the past 2 pages :P

[Beckjo1]

a v1 to v2 change? version changes are common aren't they? surely many things were considered and implemented at that time. now when v3 comes along let them slate it for consideration.

significant changes include hospitalising targets after they been successfully jumped 5 times.

[Calienta]

No, this was implemented before the change to V2.

[Beckjo1]

so it wasn't even a significant new change.

i see

ty

No, this was implemented before the change to V2.

[Beckjo1]

ps ... i just read the v2 changes page and this jumping/thugging limit was listed as one of the things to be looked at and considered back in setember.

[Zeus]

gee,

let me count the worthers who gave up on worthing and either quit the game or switched to gunning because of gunners.

i think it evens out.

i'm in b1 and i surely don't see a lack of gunners in there at all this round. Probably more than last round, in fact.

Why is this thread here? not sure. to me it is a bunch of gunners crying about being vested. You yourself were led to believe these were real people. This is happening to the heavy hitting gunners, not all gunners. Your dominance has been taken away and you don't like it so we have this thread. The more you whine the funner it is for them.

People were crying that the credit crashers were destroying the integrity of the game. Everyone was running around looking for admins to change rules to do something about it.

I am sure ther will be a new whine soon claiming the integrity is being destroyed. You play within the game rules. I play within the game rules. They play within the game rules. We deal with whatever comes our way. You don't reinvent the game, you cope. I am wide awake.

You are just ignorant, this isn't a one sided thread toots, as its been pointed out to you many times. Buzzin hit the nail on the head, its going both ways on the coin, open your eyes,wtf. This thread is about vesting and suiciding but you are once again, doling out biased opinions.

[Beckjo1]

just as biased as yours is.

after reading several threads, this isnt the first time you wanted to quit this game. you need to learn to adjust and go whatever way the game goes.

You are just ignorant, this isn't a one sided thread toots, as its been pointed out to you many times. Buzzin hit the nail on the head, its going both ways on the coin, open your eyes,wtf. This thread is about vesting and suiciding but you are once again, doling out biased opinions.

[THE HEAVY HITTA]

alright lets get this straight :D


there are 80 people atleast in the room, with the intentions of gunning only one worth cartel to start then got bored and after 6 mos decided to gun others.. then there are 2 vest making carts that just hit only one gun cartel all round til they get bored then vest the others.

now who knows if they are real accts , nobody can say they are but the said gunners or admin.. now have i asked admin several times in the last 6 mos to look it up , yes but seems that admin are spread to thin and cant be found as easily to do it.. they have found nothing yet..

the said gunners also located players in a room of 1200 people and picked them out individually last round one by one and destroyed them while not hitting the other 18 or 19 in that cartel.. seems fishy cuz it probably is.. another thing.. would u wasted 6 mos of ur life going into a room to jump a player every day 3 times even after they stopped playing their game.. come on now, if u thin that these are all legit players ur on some good shit.. put it down and sober up.

:D

[THE HEAVY HITTA]

now as for vesting.. i think that vesters are there for a few reasons..
1. if their game is toast to help burn some guns off the gunner to let the other worthers in their cartel slip by..

2. in another cartel with a few others to help jump mg so that their cartel can then get by also..

3. i dont know the last time i organized a 40 person 2 cartel round that just went into a room just to vest gunners.. this is pointless unless one of the cartels in b1 has these multis / bots using whatever they are to do it.. the cartel that comes in mind that hasnt been ever hit by these players in the 6 mos is the reds.. now cant say they are involved at all, but seems as though they are getting a light pass all the time.. unless we show up like last round and put a whooping on them :D

anyways i got nothing but love for u all including my red buds

[Beckjo1]

leads me right back to thinking these are real people .. facebookers. pretty sure they are the reason we have human check. probably ran some sort of script that pulled a list of people holding guns. is that possible?

if they are behind this they should be taken down. How do you catch them? No clue. Banning proxies isn't going to do it. Like jacx said, new ones crop up every day and you just cant keep up with them all. Not only that, some places like Panera's, libraries and other public access points use services that block Dopewars and if you want to catch up on your game you have to use a proxy. It could be that with 80 of these people ias you say t is too overwhelming of a task to track all of their activities within the game. Almost seems like a losing battle from the onset.

My points all along have been that game changes are the wrong answer for dealing wiith this. They will not solve the problem. Facebookers will just find another way to exploit the coding. Also, i see nothing wrong with vesting, per se. This thread has enlightened several worthers to this game tactic. You may wind up with many more of these vesters than you could imagine now.

alright lets get this straight :D


there are 80 people atleast in the room, with the intentions of gunning only one worth cartel to start then got bored and after 6 mos decided to gun others.. then there are 2 vest making carts that just hit only one gun cartel all round til they get bored then vest the others.

now who knows if they are real accts , nobody can say they are but the said gunners or admin.. now have i asked admin several times in the last 6 mos to look it up , yes but seems that admin are spread to thin and cant be found as easily to do it.. they have found nothing yet..

the said gunners also located players in a room of 1200 people and picked them out individually last round one by one and destroyed them while not hitting the other 18 or 19 in that cartel.. seems fishy cuz it probably is.. another thing.. would u wasted 6 mos of ur life going into a room to jump a player every day 3 times even after they stopped playing their game.. come on now, if u thin that these are all legit players ur on some good shit.. put it down and sober up.

:D

[herojuana]

if more worthers are giving up there game to attack gunners, the game is done for!! lol that is ridiculous, while the gunners are down why the fuck would you stop worthing??

[Kloaked Spirit]

3. i dont know the last time i organized a 40 person 2 cartel round that just went into a room just to vest gunners.. this is pointless unless one of the cartels in b1 has these multis / bots using whatever they are to do it.. the cartel that comes in mind that hasnt been ever hit by these players in the 6 mos is the reds.. now cant say they are involved at all, but seems as though they are getting a light pass all the time.. unless we show up like last round and put a whooping on them :D


In the past I used to do this in non-medal A games. I'd gather up groups for the sole purpose of thugging those with gun presses and vesting gunners. Then we'd have competitions to see who can peel off the most guns off gunners. It's actually quite fun if all you're trying to do is be a fucking prick. It's also quite effective when you're doing it in high numbers.

Regarding bots: Typically the ways to best catch them are not necessarily via multi-scans. It does help and we do them, but sometimes it involves other things that take more time to look into. Really the best way to have us look at it is the helpcenter, even if it doesn't act like we immediately looked at it or immediately responded to you.

Edit for serious question: If gunning is now as hard as people claim it is, then can someone explain to me why the Gold Medal winning cartel in B this round was nearly $1 Billion in networth behind the Bronze medal cartel last round? I know you can all argue "cartels are worse" and "30-day round" but are they really so worse as to have this sort of discrepancy? If anything from all the claims I'm reading, these cheaper cartels should be able to play on a par level with the better known cartels.