Some Ideas To Deter Low-Stam Gunning

[Tank Girl]

I have a couple of fairly simple ideas I'd like to share, to try and slow down the low-stam gunning strats.

1. If you jump a player and the total number of your weapons (guns + vests only, not thugs) is less than, say, a third or half of the jumped player's number of guns, then you automatically lose the jump.

Example 1: I have 200k guns and 0 vests, and jump a player with 0 guns and 200k vests. Then, as (200,000 + 0) > 0.333*0, the jump would proceed as it would normally.

Example 2: I have 5,000 guns and 5,000 vests, and jump a player with 16,000 guns and 0 vests. Then, as (5,000 + 5,000) > 0.333*16,000, the jump would proceed as it would normally.

Example 3: I have 2,000 guns and 300 vests, and jump a player with 50,000 guns and 0 vests. Then, as (2,000 + 300) is not more than 0.333*50,000, the jump would fail.

You could call it "Jump lost - you have been out-gunned" :)


2. The amount of guns you lose in a jump is inversely proportional to your stamina. The jumped player's loss is unaffected.

Example: If you are at 100% and jump a player, you would lose twice as many guns than if you were at 200% stamina.


Does anybody wish to share their thoughts on this idea?

[seasider]

admins will poo poo it, they always do

then they'll say its up to us to come up with an answer to this

then when we do they will poo poo it

its like the passing of the seasons

[Brick]

While I'm hesitant to give away the weaknesses of my strat, I'll share a few reasonable ways to counter it. The greatest weakness of low stam gunning is predictability. I.e. a good low stam gunner's jumps are done like clockwork. So to the jumpee, they can predict within a few minutes, the time in which they'll be attacked. Additionally, a low stam gunner should have at any time 2-3 lost jumps that they must contend with. More often than not, they're struggling to stay below the 5 loss limit and getting 5 losses results in a huge loss of junkies. There are three options: 1.) take you loss like a man, 2.) buy 2000 or so vests an hour before you get out of the hospital. This gets expensive and most people refuse to take the loss even though the revenue from the lost junkies far outweighs the loss of vests. or 3.) while this differs based on your chosen strat, I'll simplify it for a standard gunner. Lesson #1 being a pure gunner is retarded, at some point you have to spend tokens to regain your stamina. Typically, you spend this on junkies, but at the beginning on the round there is a period in which you need to spend tokens before being able to jump. These 100 or so tokens should be used to purchase sewing machines. And yes I realize this is completely against the "pure guns" mentality, but you're more flexible in your jump times. So on any given day you should do the following. Make your jumps 4-5 hours before you get out of the hospital, then 20 minutes before you're going to be jumped, spend your tokens like you normally would to get back to max stamina, this allows you to accumulate vests without having to spend the cash. Thus you have free vests without having to spend your own cash from the initial investment. This should be more than enough to beat the low stammer and if they're good they'll seek junkies elsewhere. Just a thought, I could care less what you think about it.

[Dai]

I find those suggestions helpful, both what we can do and what the admins could do.

I do have some empathy with the admin view that it is within the power of the gunners to alter their strat to deter the low stammers, and hadn't really thought about the fact that losing a jump to you even once could edge them up to the 5 lost jumps and be quite critical, thanks Brick.

Last gunning game I had the problem was not with low stam gunners of the nature of Brick or Diezel, where they keep things really tight, it was with people who had been jumped turning to revenge jumping but sort of trying to do a low stam thing - but they had way more guns than someone running pure low stam so they still broke through on the odd time I (accidentally) bought some vests, causing even worse losses, lol. C'est la vie.

[herojuana]

Brick, im not sure i understood what you said. you think the gunners should get sewing machines? thats not gonna happen, the loss of cart strength from everyone having that manyn vests would piss up the entire gunning front (which would admittedly stop low stamming if we cant get junkies) but means we may as well just run machines or junkies.

[Diezel]

Delete this thread :D

[$treet pharmaci$t]

Delete this thread :D


:haha:

[Kloaked Spirit]

admins will poo poo it, they always do

then they'll say its up to us to come up with an answer to this

then when we do they will poo poo it

its like the passing of the seasons

I'm going to change this up for you, and only you, because you seem to be lacking the point we're always trying to make when it comes to suggestions. You have to take everything into consideration.

With that being said, I've got a game for you. Yes, I am going to "poo poo" the ideas. However, to get you to think, I want you to come up with the reasoning as to why I'm "poo pooing" the idea. To make things even more fair, I'll give you a hint. It has to deal with the other stuff that you all have been crying about, and how we're doing nothing about that. Good luck!

[Zeus]

I'm going to change this up for you, and only you, because you seem to be lacking the point we're always trying to make when it comes to suggestions. You have to take everything into consideration.

With that being said, I've got a game for you. Yes, I am going to "poo poo" the ideas. However, to get you to think, I want you to come up with the reasoning as to why I'm "poo pooing" the idea. To make things even more fair, I'll give you a hint. It has to deal with the other stuff that you all have been crying about, and how we're doing nothing about that. Good luck!

So you want the whole rest of this thread to be post trying to figure out what you are referring to for your own amusement. Why not just post a straight answer instead of forcing ppl to dance around you like monkeys? If you were my employee, I would fire you.

http://static.flickr.com/55/150664947_5a64267303_o.jpg

[Brick]

Brick, im not sure i understood what you said. you think the gunners should get sewing machines? thats not gonna happen, the loss of cart strength from everyone having that manyn vests would piss up the entire gunning front (which would admittedly stop low stamming if we cant get junkies) but means we may as well just run machines or junkies.

There are a few things to address with this. The sewing machines I'm talking about come from the initial tokens you get. In the first 1-3 days even a successful jump earns less than or equal to the cost of just using your tokens to purchase them yourself. It's kind of a buffer period where you organize yourself to gun for the round. Now me, I don't want more than 300 guns at any time, so buying gun presses is useless, and the junkies or labs I would buy would end up being taken from me anyhow. 60 or so sewing machines would have a minimal impact on gunning cartel strengths. The main issue for you is that you carry around a large amount of guns, so retaliatory jumps on low stammers suck b/c you lose a lot of guns. However, by week 2 a good low stammer has more junkies and labs than a junkie runner, ask anyone when I played in B4, I had MWJ from day 10 - day 28. So you get a good payout. The best idea is to have a low stammer in your cartel and hand them the id and times of the low stammer.

The number of vests I was talking about was the result of 50 or 60 sewing machines and then the hour before the low stammer arrives, you spend the tokens to get yourself back up to 200%, which you would do anyhow. That way you have let's say 10 tokens worth of vests from the sewing machines. Trust me, nothing pisses me off more than a soft target getting vests. It forces me to either drop them as a target or spend money and tokens on stamina, which in turn ruins low stam's edge (more jumps per day). So unless you're a really REALLY good target, I move on. The other option is to know when they're gonna come around and vest up 2 days in a row. No low stammer in their right mind would waste the tokens on jumping you.

For example: Even if you pay out 50 junkies; it it costs me 12 tokens plus $1,000,000 in shakes to hit you. It's not worth the cost. I could get the same result without spending cash on shakes jumping 3 average players that payout 20 junkies each. I even get more plus the added bonuses of the cash spent on credits rather than shakes. I hope that clarifies.

There was a counter-strat to low stamming that I wrote a few months back. If you have the people to run it (they'd be gunning per-say), let me know and we can discuss it. It was almost successfully ran but failed b/c of lack of teamwork. The cartel still placed top 3, but could've easily won had people followed the strat and not been greedy.

[Diezel]

Delete this thread :angry:


Cannot Jump
You cannot make this jump, you're in too much pain to from all your recent lost jumps!

[Brick]

haha, swing and a miss.

[Zeus]

haha, swing and a miss.

"You cannot make this Jump, PSD will get you eventually"

[Kloaked Spirit]

So you want the whole rest of this thread to be post trying to figure out what you are referring to for your own amusement. Why not just post a straight answer instead of forcing ppl to dance around you like monkeys? If you were my employee, I would fire you.

http://static.flickr.com/55/150664947_5a64267303_o.jpg

:admin:

The truth is, the last dozen times or so that I have given a straight answer, it basically gets dismissed using the same criteria that Seasider was putting forth. You'd do it too.

I've already told her the answer in a PM, and if someone wants the straight answer from me, I'll PM them too. Well, except for the ones I don't. I figure I'll give the rest of those usual "admin doesn't care wah wah wah" crowd a chance to figure it out for themselves before jumping into basic stereotypical responses. It's a gift from me to you.

P.S. Once you figure out why, you'll see the irony.

[Zeus]

:admin:

The truth is, the last dozen times or so that I have given a straight answer, it basically gets dismissed using the same criteria that Seasider was putting forth. You'd do it too.

I've already told her the answer in a PM, and if someone wants the straight answer from me, I'll PM them too. Well, except for the ones I don't. I figure I'll give the rest of those usual "admin doesn't care wah wah wah" crowd a chance to figure it out for themselves before jumping into basic stereotypical responses. It's a gift from me to you.

So why are we wrong? if so, what are we then in your opinion?

[Kloaked Spirit]

So why are we wrong? if so, what are we then in your opinion?

If you can't figure out the reason why the statement "admin doesn't ever care or discuss anything ever, they just disregard it with no reasoning what so ever" is blatantly wrong, then what do you think my answers to your questions would be?

But here's an idea. Since we're asking random questions, what is your opinion on her suggestions? I just want to test you out for consistency.

[Diogee]

is the answer Pi?

but seen how we on this topic now... what happened to the suiciding/vesting topics??? I am pretty sure admins didnt change anything for those

[Kanders]

I have a couple of fairly simple ideas I'd like to share, to try and slow down the low-stam gunning strats.

If they're counter-gunning from a worth cartel, threaten to suicide all there top players, everyday, until they stop. :haha:


what happened to the suiciding/vesting topics??? I am pretty sure admins didnt change anything for those

Low stammers are anti-vesting heroes :P

[THE HEAVY HITTA]

low stamina is a new strat that makes a not so good strat into a good one by using simple ways to make it work ie: buying creds so ur worth increase with gunners and when u get jumped back u dont lose worth except a few js.. i think that if they make the hospital times random like was supposed to happen months ago but yet another thing that didnt.. it would help the situation a bit.. making those that share times and those that keep it logged in notepad worthless and more even with all others.. also if u silly gunners just buy 25k fucking vests might help :whistle: but what do i know, i only got 3 votes so far in the dw player of the year.. by the way go vote for HH :D(sponsored by the HH campaign)

[shadow]

low stamina is a new strat that makes a not so good strat into a good one by using simple ways to make it work ie: buying creds so ur worth increase with gunners and when u get jumped back u dont lose worth except a few js.. i think that if they make the hospital times random like was supposed to happen months ago but yet another thing that didnt.. it would help the situation a bit.. making those that share times and those that keep it logged in notepad worthless and more even with all others.. also if u silly gunners just buy 25k fucking vests might help :whistle: but what do i know, i only got 3 votes so far in the dw player of the year.. by the way go vote for HH :D(sponsored by the HH campaign)

Now i was just going to post something in the other thread about Alan asking people to vote for him and about how that defeats the object of the poll.

You should know better, shame on you! :P

[pinzNneedlz]

want to stop low stammers...i have the solution...stop gunning!!!:haha::haha:

[Brick]

want to stop low stammers...i have the solution...stop gunning!!!:haha::haha:

that's the best answer yet! Kudos

[seasider]

then see how much fun the game would be

[pinzNneedlz]

i thought my post was very apparent that i was dripping with sarchasm!!!

[Brick]

if not my sarcastic reply should've done the trick :thumbs: