Certificate of Completion- Bush Style

[kitty]

I just got this in an email...What do you think of it?


The "Certificate of Completion or Attendance" that is being offered in lieu of high school diplomas, is a part of Bush's "No Child Left Behind". This is how it works:

It is for students who are unable to pass both the Language Arts and Math portions of the 10th grade ISTEP. Students must take the same 10th grade test over in the 11th and 12th grades until they pass both portions. If they are unable to pass the 10th grade test by the 12th grade then they have two options:

1. Drop out and go to a GED program or,
2. Accept a "Certificate of Completion" - it is NOT a diploma. Once a student accepts it, they cannot ever get a diploma or a GED.

A certificate of completion means that a student can never (as long
as they live):

1. Go to the armed services
2. Go to college
3. Go to trade school
4. Go to journeyman's school
5. Go to beauty school
6. Go to culinary arts school
7. Get a federal loan in their lifetime

This is the portion of NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND (2001) that Bush slipped in during the 2004 revision of the NCLB bill. It has not been publicized. At a high school in Indiana , in 2005, there were 87 seniors in the graduation class. Five got diplomas and 82 got "Certificates of Completion".

This is being referred to as the "Paper Plantation ". It is better for students to drop out and get into a GED program so they may seek other forms of education, later in life, if they desire to do so. All 50 states have "Certificates of Completion or Attendance".

[RobCheadle]

It looks like crap to me...

Am I right in thinking that the certificate of completion actually restricts what you can do later on in life? If so it sucks!

[dov]

y do u need a highschool diploma to bein the army

[Kat]

It is for students who are unable to pass both the Language Arts and Math portions of the 10th grade ISTEP. Students must take the same 10th grade test over in the 11th and 12th grades until they pass both portions. If they are unable to pass the 10th grade test by the 12th grade then they have two options:

1. Drop out and go to a GED program or,
2. Accept a "Certificate of Completion" - it is NOT a diploma. Once a student accepts it, they cannot ever get a diploma or a GED.


So they can't just drop out and decide later? That's awful! Are there any upsides to this certificate of completion, does anyone know?

Also, what's a GED?

[Furyous]

GED General Equivolancy Diploma. A diploma offered by the government stating that you have the general knowedge of a graduating High School student.
Well, I for one don't feel sorry for the people that take the easy way out. I didn't graduate with honors or anything, but I busted my ass to make it through. You want to slide, and not even pass a basic high school math test, than why should I feel sorry for you. I did what I had to do to make it through, now you should too. I believe in equal rights, meaning we all have to work hard for what we want, or we don't get it. I am an entrepreneur, I've worked hard to get where I'm at, I had to hustle to nail down the license that I bought just a few months ago, and I never could have done what I'm doing today, running an international business, without a general knowledge of high school math. So, I don't see what's wrong with that bill. You're not left behind if you choose the easy way out. YOU CHOSE your destiny, NO ONE ELSE CHOSE THAT FOR YOU!!! Don't blame the President for lazy ignorant peoples problems. He's not leaving you behind, he gives you the choice to choose whether or not you are going to make it in life. I see it as a turning point. For those kids who can't pass the test, they can either figure it out and study and get the job done, or fail. Why does that make the president a bad man. The other issue is that NOT EVERYONE is created equal. Some people will never be able to pass that test. Should I as a business man have to hire people that were "given" diplomas just so they wouldn't be stuck in high school for another year or drop out? I don't believe that I should. Plus,for all of us who actually worked to make it through, doesn't it piss you off to know that some people cheated all the way through, or even worse, were just given a pass because everyone knew they couldn't make it and felt sorry for them? What do you think that does to the value of your diploma? Everyone given a free ride devalues your diploma that much more. Why do you think that people with HS Diplomas make so little now. I'm one of them, so don't get mad at me. The simple fact is, the more that education is "given away" the les valuable the education becomes. Everyone deserves the right to give it a shot, but in my book, not everyone deserves to make it all the way through. Giving away diplomas defeats the purose of an education. The whole point is to make our population stronger through education, not to hand out diplomas to everyone so they can get better jobs. Quite simply, if you want something in life, WORK FOR IT! Very little in life comes for free, and education should NEVER be considered to be a right, but rather a priviledge!

:rant:

[Furyous]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/completion.asp

END OF DISCUSSION

[the squid of despair]

GED General Equivolancy Diploma. A diploma offered by the government stating that you have the general knowedge of a graduating High School student.
Well, I for one don't feel sorry for the people that take the easy way out. I didn't graduate with honors or anything, but I busted my ass to make it through. You want to slide, and not even pass a basic high school math test, than why should I feel sorry for you. I did what I had to do to make it through, now you should too. I believe in equal rights, meaning we all have to work hard for what we want, or we don't get it. I am an entrepreneur, I've worked hard to get where I'm at, I had to hustle to nail down the license that I bought just a few months ago, and I never could have done what I'm doing today, running an international business, without a general knowledge of high school math. So, I don't see what's wrong with that bill. You're not left behind if you choose the easy way out. YOU CHOSE your destiny, NO ONE ELSE CHOSE THAT FOR YOU!!! Don't blame the President for lazy ignorant peoples problems. He's not leaving you behind, he gives you the choice to choose whether or not you are going to make it in life. I see it as a turning point. For those kids who can't pass the test, they can either figure it out and study and get the job done, or fail. Why does that make the president a bad man. The other issue is that NOT EVERYONE is created equal. Some people will never be able to pass that test. Should I as a business man have to hire people that were "given" diplomas just so they wouldn't be stuck in high school for another year or drop out? I don't believe that I should. Plus,for all of us who actually worked to make it through, doesn't it piss you off to know that some people cheated all the way through, or even worse, were just given a pass because everyone knew they couldn't make it and felt sorry for them? What do you think that does to the value of your diploma? Everyone given a free ride devalues your diploma that much more. Why do you think that people with HS Diplomas make so little now. I'm one of them, so don't get mad at me. The simple fact is, the more that education is "given away" the les valuable the education becomes. Everyone deserves the right to give it a shot, but in my book, not everyone deserves to make it all the way through. Giving away diplomas defeats the purose of an education. The whole point is to make our population stronger through education, not to hand out diplomas to everyone so they can get better jobs. Quite simply, if you want something in life, WORK FOR IT! Very little in life comes for free, and education should NEVER be considered to be a right, but rather a priviledge!

:rant:

If this were true, I agree with you 100%

Since it's not, lock please.

[hoos]

Education is a right, definitely not a priviledge. I understand where you are coming from Furyous, though I didn't read the whole thing for you. Sometimes people just can't pass a test. Some people have a very hard time taking tests but are very smart. My cousin was valedictorian of her class and only got an 1100 something on her SAT's b/c she isn't a good test-taker.

Also as I read a little more, everyone does deserve the chance to extend their education to college. This bullshit completion thing is absurd. It's like saying you attended the school but you didn't do anything there. It's like the 10th place honorable mention that you get at the science fair out of 9 people. It means absolute shit.

Last little small rant... I'll be honest, i'm the opposite of you. I was lucky enough to be born and not have to work as hard to get good grades like a lot of people do. I got my HS diploma and I'm proud of it, yes, but I'd rather see the 30 kids that missed out in my class of 468 get the diplomas and do something with their lives. And no I don't believe it would devalue my diploma in the least bit. I could care less what someone else thinks of my diploma. I know the work that I did and what I put into it. You should be just as proud for the diploma you got as well.

[Spork!!!]

Hey Furyous, isn't it nice to have all the opportunities to "make it" when you are at high-school.
I know, I'm white, middle class, and was lucky enough to grow up with a mum and a dad...

How about the poor kid with a drugfucked mother, a different "dad" every week and 3 younger siblings who they are trying to raise? Do they truly understand the implications of their choices, that it will "lock them out" of any hope of further education, public service careers, even bloody being cooks or beauticians! FFS, they can't even get a (cheap?) federal (housing/business start-up) loan, so they are truly trapped in a poverty cycle!

Someone said "The wealth of a nation is not judged by the wealth of it's richest man. It is measured by the wealth of it's poorest". (or something like that).

On the upside, it's nice to see Bush fucking ppl. outside the middle east...

[the squid of despair]

Hey Furyous, isn't it nice to have all the opportunities to "make it" when you are at high-school.
I know, I'm white, middle class, and was lucky enough to grow up with a mum and a dad...

How about the poor kid with a drugfucked mother, a different "dad" every week and 3 younger siblings who they are trying to raise? Do they truly understand the implications of their choices, that it will "lock them out" of any hope of further education, public service careers, even bloody being cooks or beauticians! FFS, they can't even get a (cheap?) federal (housing/business start-up) loan, so they are truly trapped in a poverty cycle!

Someone said "The wealth of a nation is not judged by the wealth of it's richest man. It is measured by the wealth of it's poorest". (or something like that).

On the upside, it's nice to see Bush fucking ppl. outside the middle east...

Why don't you check out the link on snopes before you rush to your judgement.

[GankOne]

Personally, I dropped out of High School for a lot of reasons beyond my control. People don't always drop out of school as an "easy way out" or because they "can't pass a test". I got my GED and am a year away from graduating college and then on to grad school, so there is an alternate route. I think giving the option of this "certificate of completion" is sending the wrong message to troubled teens that giving up is ok.

[Spork!!!]

Why don't you check out the link on snopes before you rush to your judgement.

Oops. I wish I'd taken a moment to read that before posting...:$

[the squid of despair]

Oops. I wish I'd taken a moment to read that before posting...:$

I still love you.

[Furyous]

Number one, this certificate is not true, check out the link I posted on the 1st page.

Now on to my last rant....

Hey guys, I'm all for people coming up from nothing and making something of themselves. Before I bought the license for the product I am now selling in Chile, I worked in a factory making back up alarms in Boise, Idaho. I made terrible money, and had I not been going to school to study Int'l Business, I'd probably never have had the opportunity to be doing what I'm doing today. My dad's cousin dropped out of high school to become the largest rest home owner/builder in the world. You don't need the diploma if you're driven, but you also don't deserve to be given everything either. Case in point. When I lived in Afghanistan, I worked at Kabul Medical School, my brother and I installed the computer lab and network there. I also assisted an American doctor who has worked there for nearly 50 years off and on. The major problem with the medical school is, very few people take it seriously. The majority of the kids in that school were there because their parents had connections, and paid to get them in. If they were looking at some bad grades, all they had to do was pay one of the professors to go in and change a few things, and all of the sudden they were passing. Therefore, Afghanistan has terrible doctors. The hospital I worked with on that project is now there retraining 10 doctors at a time to try to bring up the standard of healthcare in Afghanistan. I've seen this not only in Afghanistan, but in Peru, where I taught English, computers, band and coached a basketball team at one of the three schools I was working at.
Here's the deal, as I see it. Our education is only as good as we make it. If we start handing out free passes to kids who are having a hard time, what does that do for THEM? It shows them that they can play the "I've got a hard life" card, and get off easier than the kids who have to try. That's not the only thing though. It also DOES devalue YOUR education. Who's to say that your not one of the kids with the "Easy Button"? In order for a nation to have a decent education system, some people must fail. Here's the kicker, in America, you can always come back when you're ready to take on your life and make it happen for yourself, much like many of you have. Be proud of that, it takes a lot to pull yourself out of a difficult situation and become something more. I respect anyone who does so. You deserve everything you will accomplish with your new found drive.
Hey, my dad is a neuro surgeon, I did not come from a terrible background, but he also didn't let me get away with shit. I made my own way in life, and I'm here because of the work I've done, not because of anything else. I just think that even though this whole certificate thing is false, not everyone has the right to succeed. Success is based on determination, and that comes from within. You cannot manufacture determination, that comes from within! No matter how hard you try, there will always be a certain percentage of any given population that will always piss away anything you give them. I intend to not be in that group, so I'm working hard, in a country where I barely speak the language, with my girlfrend waiting for me back home. See what I'm saying? I've made a lot of sacrifices to come down here and establish a successful company, but if it all works out the way we are forecasting, it will be worth it in the end. Work hard so you can play hard!

[YetAnotherKitten]

Well I did read it and I dissagree if you think GED or the CoC is an "easy way out". I think the CoC is quite the opposite. Instead of graduating students who complete course work with poor grades even though they can barely read they are forced to get their abilities to the standard. I do realize that people have test-anxiety but sometimes I really see it as a crutch and an excuse.

On the subject of GED's I didn't really know what I was doing in my life but I did know that I needed a different sort of education than I was getting in school and now here I have gotten a transfer degree and have a solid plan for my life which is much more than i can say for quite a few high school graduates, so take that information and do what you will with it.

Also I know quite a few people that are homeschooled and whereas they have the knowledge to get A GED at age 16 but not the paperwork to get a diploma they are also excited to move on to higher education. Not living off of welfare or sitting on their asses.

Although-- I shoudl say that education usualy invovles a lot of sitting on your ass...

[thatguy]

Why don't you check out the link on snopes before you rush to your judgement.

because i believe everything i read on the internet :smartass:

[the squid of despair]

because i believe everything i read on the internet :smartass:


Marry me.