How the UK Immigration Courts really work...

[Phuquit]

I spent 2 years working in the British Court Service.
The Court I was based at used to sublet one of its courtrooms to the IAA (Immigration Appellate Authority) so that they could stage hearings for all those nasty "bogus asylum seekers".

Unlike a normal court hearing, the burden of proof was always on the asylum seeker to prove their case. The Home Office (part of the UK Government) would retain very expensive barristers, whose job (if the hundreds of cases I witnessed first-hand were anything to go by) was to say "You're lying", over and over again.

The most poignant case I ever saw happened exactly as follows.

There was an Iranian woman who had come to England. She had been kidnapped from her own home by Iranian soldiers and detained illegally by them in her own country.
During the course of her incarceration, she had been repeatedly raped by numerous soldiers, over the course of many days. Eventually, they threw her out into the street, naked.
Not knowing if the soldiers would come back for her at a later date, she fled to England.
The barrister for the Home Office listened to her testimony, occasionally looking at his watch, until it was time for his rebuttal.
In a remarkable turnaround from the norm, he did not dispute the evidence that she had given.
Instead, his case, the case of the British Government against this poor unfortunate woman, was that "rape does not constitute torture".
That's right. Those were his exact words...

[Uganja]

That is, truely awful example of the justice system. And for that lady involved, I am truely sorry that our country was not there for her. And for you having to see that as a bystander.

However, that surely is a minority of cases, in immigration courts, they need to be ruthless, because lets be honest, all you will hear is horrible stories of torture and suffering. Day in and day out. That is why they are there, to plead asylum. So obviously some people will lie, some will tell the truth.

Is the purpose of this thread to encourage more sympathy towards immigrants, or asylum seekers?

Because I would never suggest Asylum seekers should go ignored, some people come from some really unliveable countries/conditions & of course they deserve to be safe. However, Courts do need to be vigilant, surely?

[Phuquit]

Unfortunately, our system is geared to prevent non-whites to enter the country to seek work.
Did you know that we issue work permits for over 2 million North Americans, Australians, and South Africans?
You won't read about that in the Daily Mail...

And I fully acknowledge that there are many "bogus" cases, but until we introduce a more equitable economic immigration policy that doesn't revolve around skin colour, that's the only avenue left to many desperate individuals.

[Uganja]

Do you really believe that in this day an age that its still based on skin colour? I mean honestly?

Surely the fact that there is work permits issued to so many North American, saffers (they all move round my way) and aussies... Is because they are nations commonly associated with speaking english as a national language, and perhaps have skill sets etc. that would benefit the country as a whole. I'm not implying that other countries where there is a predominant black or asian majority don't possess these skills, but if we are comparing Asylum seekers here. They benefit the country less, and drain the economy more.

Do they not?

[the squid of despair]

Did you know that we issue work permits for over 2 million North Americans, Australians, and South Africans?



How many of those were black, white, brown, yellow, etc?

Also wouldn't you be more likely to issue work permits to your allies?

[Phuquit]

Well it still comes down to a common cultural identity.
Most of the whites that we're talking about take jobs in pubs or restaurants simply to fund an extended holiday, rather than to stimulate our economy, or to provide a better standard of living for their families abroad.

Given the current trend towards Islamophobia in this coutry, and the increasing suspicion that our Government is facing from the rest of the world (excluding USA), shouldn't we be doing more to break down the cultural barriers, rather than reinforcing them?
It's difficult for a lot of British people to identify the institutionalised racism in our society, but it's still there.
There are lots of poorly paid jobs in this coutry which require little or no knowledge of the English language, yet work permits are not being granted to a willing tailor-made workforce.
We are becoming increasingly more reliant on imported food products, while our own agricultural industry is on the decline.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

[thatguy]

Unfortunately, our system is geared to prevent non-whites to enter the country to seek work.
Did you know that we issue work permits for over 2 million North Americans, Australians, and South Africans?
You won't read about that in the Daily Mail...

And I fully acknowledge that there are many "bogus" cases, but until we introduce a more equitable economic immigration policy that doesn't revolve around skin colour, that's the only avenue left to many desperate individuals.

2 million seems like a high number. are you saying that 3% of the people in UK are americans and aussies working pubs on holiday?

[Phuquit]

2 million seems like a high number. are you saying that 3% of the people in UK are americans and aussies working pubs on holiday?
Sorry - that's a bit misleading.
Over 2 million work permits have been automatically granted to people from those demographics since legislation was introduced to curb "unwanted immigrants".
It's not an annual figure - that's in the region of 120K per annum.
That's compared to around 20-30K applications for asylum lodged annually in the UK.

[JaiJai]

There's a huge difference between refugees seeking asylum, simply being an illegal immigrant, and becoming a fully legal immigrant.

I'm a little torn, because some immigration angers me, especially the ones seeking asylum who are not in REAL need, but come here and discriminate against US in our own country, who make terrorist plans, those who kill us, steal from us, etc.. and i think those are the ones you're referring Jay, and im in total agreement there.

Granted, those who are seeking asylum are usually those who are being abused or in fear of their lives. Generally, not always, but usually these people are uneducated and have very few skills (usually because their govt's don't allow it), and like Jay said, they don't bring anything to our country to promote economic security, but actually put a drain on the economy.

However, most of the wealthy countries signed the refugee act at the U.N. in 1951, agreeing to listen to the cases made by these refugees and make every effort to protect them from abuse, persecution, loss of life, etc...

Really, where do we draw the line, when it comes to human kindness. There are so many people (women and children as well) that are victims of brutal military coups by their own government who are supposed to be leading them and protecting them. They are victims, who have no hope. Not only can many of them not feed their children but they have no light at the end of the tunnel, nothing to have faith in, they live in constant despair.

I do understand what you're saying Jay, and I realize we also have to protect our Own, from the "plague" of crime, financial burdern, disease, religious fanatics who come to OUR countries and call US fidels bacause we dont' believe in their beliefs, terrorists in disguise etc... and the rest of the bad that comes with all of this migration, But at the same time, what shall we do when they float up in a boat to our shores, begging us to protect them from the saddams, hitlers, and castros of their homelands? Do we really just kick them back to sea and tell them to go home and suffer? Forget the borders and flags for a moment, just consider it one human being to another. 2 men stranded on a desert island, one from iraq one from usa, they are going to most likely work together to survive, regardless of their nationality.

There are also Many immigrants that when given the opportunity, they gained an education in our country, excelled in their studies, and became a productive (if not quite valuable) members of our sociieties, Even more so than many of our own deadbeat citizens.

[Jacx]

above post...nuff said!

[Phuquit]

Excellent post JaiJai.

It's unfortunate that our governments are derelict in their responsibilities in this very matter.
For example, during the build-up to the invasion of Iraq, Parliament was almost unanimous in condemning Saddam Hussein as the greatest tyrant in human history. His regime was so barbaric, that nothing short of invasion could restore peace and freedom to the people of Iraq...
Strangely enough, the Home Office had a rather different opinion of Saddam's Iraq...
In the 2 months leading up to the invasion, all exceptional leave to remain was automatically denied to any Iraqi citizens entering the UK.
Furthermore, the Home Office was seeking to forcibly and immediately re-patriate any failed Iraqi asylum seekers (completely inconsistent with protocol).

In the words of the late I. F. Stone, when asked for his advice for aspiring journalists, Stone boiled it down to just two words: "Governments lie."