global english

[tim|away]

Global English

English is spoken as a first language by more than 300 million people throughout the world, and used as a second language by many millions more. One in five of the world's population speaks English with a good level of competence, and within the next few years the number of people speaking English as a second language will exceed the number of native speakers.

This could have a dramatic effect on the evolution of the language: in the process of being absorbed by new cultures, English develops to take account of local language needs, giving rise not just to new vocabulary but also to new forms of grammar and pronunciation.

At the same time, however, a standardized 'global' English is spread by the media and the Internet.

The main regional standards of English are British, US and Canadian, Australian and New Zealand, South African, Indian, and West Indian. Within each of these regional varieties a number of highly differentiated local dialects may be found.

Oxford dictionaries try to include many regionalisms encountered in different English-speaking areas of the world.

>> original article (http://www.askoxford.com/globalenglish/?view=uk)


am i missing anything? i wish there was something like a global standard. in fact, you always have to adapt to the regional circumstances. a standardised english is neither spread by the media nor by the internet. for instance, what's the standardised term for trunk, boot respectively? main storage? luggage compartment?
talking about the standardised english, what's the global spelling of the word 'standardised'?

feel free to discuss the consequences of a lack of standards and how people speaking english as a second language will worsen it.

[Kat]

am i missing anything? i wish there was something like a global standard. in fact, you always have to adapt to the regional circumstances. a standardised english is neither spread by the media nor by the internet. for instance, what's the standardised term for trunk, boot respectively? main storage? luggage compartment?
talking about the standardised english, what's the global spelling of the word 'standardised'?

feel free to discuss the consequences of a lack of standards and how people speaking english as a second language will worsen it.

I don't think it's a case of making a language better or worse, and I don't think it's a case of lack of standards. It's just the natural evolution that languages go through. In the case of the English language there's been a strong tendancy (for political, social, naustalgic and practical reasons) to keep calling a language 'English' after it's moved further away from other forms of English than other languages referred to as seperate. There are forces working to bring these Englishes (and I think we do have to think of them as a group of connected languages, rather than a single entity) closer together, and this includes the global communication brought about by the internet.

However, there are other forces working to move the Englishes further apart. People need new words to describe things that might not need description in other parts of the world, so this increases the vocabulary. Words are borrowed from other language used in the area. There's also sometimes artificial intervention (in the US this gave us 'thru' for instance), by individual linguists or groups who feel a change in language or spelling is required. Regional dialects can leads to a new vocabulary or even changes in grammar (the second person plural pronoun 'yall' for instance).

It must be frustrating for people trying to learn the language, but it's great for English itself. It's the language with the biggest vocabulary (I think), and that makes it ideal both for literature and other forms of communication.

[Lucas]

English in the northeast of America has alot of differances than English from the south. dam rednecks.:Eng111:

[Grendel]

Shouldn't there be an 'N' in the word 'damn', or are you telling us that rednecks are used to hold back bodies of water? :D

[Davecat]

Shouldn't there be an 'N' in the word 'damn', or are you telling us that rednecks are used to hold back bodies of water? :D



on that note... 'He's not speaking properley is it'


Grendel : Location: Wales, UK

[Grendel]

on that note... 'He's not speaking properley is it'


Grendel : Location: Wales, UK

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Just because I live in Wales, it doesn't follow that I speak using Welsh dialect and/or idioms. Personally I've never used "is it" in that particular manner. Nor do I say things such as "Come over by here from over by there" or "Who's coat is this jacket?"

Although there are people in these parts that do talk that way admittedly.

I suppose if I live here long enough I'll learn to talk tidy like... ;)

[Davecat]

I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Just because I live in Wales, it doesn't follow that I speak using Welsh dialect and/or idioms. Personally I've never used "is it" in that particular manner. Nor do I say things such as "Come over by here from over by there" or "Who's coat is this jacket?"

Although there are people in these parts that do talk that way admittedly.

I suppose if I live here long enough I'll learn to talk tidy like... ;)


Props for having a sense of humour !...


but what are your thoughts on sheep...


/runs

[Grendel]

Props for having a sense of humour !...


but what are your thoughts on sheep...

/runs

Heh! See the title... "A sheeps worst nightmare"

What do YOU think? :sheep:


Hmmmm Maybe I have lived here too long! ;)

[Beli]

in regards to ESL.
one twist that i notice usually comes from Mexican's. they have a tendency to say "are you going to get off the car? or get on the car" when i would probably say get in and out of the car. no matter though, i still know what they are talking about.

[Lucas]

Shouldn't there be an 'N' in the word 'damn', or are you telling us that rednecks are used to hold back bodies of water? :D



No "n" in the word dam.

england a cigarette is called fag.

I didn't know what a Noob was till dopewars.

[Ridgeback]

No "n" in the word dam.

you are joking aren't you?

FYI, grendel was right for the context you used...

dam1 (dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifm)
n.


A barrier constructed across a waterway to control the flow or raise the level of water.
A body of water controlled by such a barrier.
A barrier against the passage of liquid or loose material, as a rubber sheet used in dentistry to isolate one or more teeth from the rest of the mouth.
An obstruction; a hindrancedamn (dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifm)
v. damned, damn·ing, damns
v. tr.

To pronounce an adverse judgment upon. See Synonyms at condemn (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=condemn).
To bring about the failure of; ruin.
To condemn as harmful, illegal, or immoral: a cleric who damned gambling and strong drink.
To condemn to everlasting punishment or a similar fate; doom.
To swear at.v. intr.
To swear; curse.
interj.
Used to express anger, irritation, contempt, or disappointment.
n.

The saying of “damn” as a curse.
Informal. The least valuable bit; a jot: not worth a damn.adv. & adj.
Damned.

[Lucas]

you are joking aren't you?

FYI, grendel was right for the context you used...

dam1 (dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifm)
n.


A barrier constructed across a waterway to control the flow or raise the level of water.
A body of water controlled by such a barrier.
A barrier against the passage of liquid or loose material, as a rubber sheet used in dentistry to isolate one or more teeth from the rest of the mouth.
An obstruction; a hindrancedamn (dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/abreve.gifm)
v. damned, damn·ing, damns
v. tr.

To pronounce an adverse judgment upon. See Synonyms at condemn (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=condemn).
To bring about the failure of; ruin.
To condemn as harmful, illegal, or immoral: a cleric who damned gambling and strong drink.
To condemn to everlasting punishment or a similar fate; doom.
To swear at.v. intr.
To swear; curse.
interj.
Used to express anger, irritation, contempt, or disappointment.
n.

The saying of “damn” as a curse.
Informal. The least valuable bit; a jot: not worth a damn.adv. & adj.
Damned.




Not where Im from nitwit. thats the whole point of this thread

Lucas

[Ridgeback]

Not where Im from nitwit. thats the whole point of this thread

Lucas

so, you're an ignorant Yank that can't be bothered to spell correctly :ang1: Why am I not surprised.
Go and learn something by opening a dictionary

[the squid of despair]

so, you're an ignorant Yank that can't be bothered to spell correctly :ang1: Why am I not surprised.
Go and learn something by opening a dictionary

Maybe you should move this thread, since you want to turn it into a abuse the "Yanks" thread. Move this to AIW? I mean everyone has already taken a shit on it.

[Grendel]

Blimey! Can't we have a joke at each others expense without people assuming that it's abuse?

Christ! Maybe I should have complained when B0ngsw0rd made the joke at my expense... He was kidding, and he took my reply in the manner it was intended. As a joke!

[the squid of despair]

Blimey! Can't we have a joke at each others expense without people assuming that it's abuse?

Christ! Maybe I should have complained when B0ngsw0rd made the joke at my expense... He was kidding, and he took my reply in the manner it was intended. As a joke!

This is serious discussion not comedy or AIW. Ridgeback isn't joking.

[Lucas]

so, you're an ignorant Yank that can't be bothered to spell correctly :ang1: Why am I not surprised.
Go and learn something by opening a dictionary



Its not like i called you an Asshole, is that correct English?

[Grendel]

Its not like i called you an Asshole, is that correct English?

Yup! Sounds like correct English to me... ;)

[Lucas]

Blimey! Can't we have a joke at each others expense without people assuming that it's abuse?

Christ! Maybe I should have complained when B0ngsw0rd made the joke at my expense... He was kidding, and he took my reply in the manner it was intended. As a joke!




I concour

[Quaker]

This is serious discussion not comedy or AIW. Ridgeback isn't joking.

Oh the irony LMFAO

[Ridgeback]

This is serious discussion not comedy or AIW. Ridgeback isn't joking.

quite right, I wasn't joking. I was being serious, which is why it won't be moved

I think Tim posted this on purpose, knowing this is one of things that will make me angry - I have a few pet hates, and bastardised English (or bastardized if you're American) is top of the list :@

I have a scientific background and consequently use words such as ionise, analyse etc. This is British "English". Now, if you have a paper published, these words would have to be changed to ionize, analyze (American "English") etc due to the size of the American readership. Why use the z?

Another thing that really annoys me is this: why do Americans insist on calling the element Al ALUMINUM, when it is actually ALUMINIUM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium). There are a number of other words that are spelt differently in American "English" than British "English".

Why?

As far as I know, and I can't be bothered searching the net checking all the English speaking countries, America and Canada seem to be the worst culprits of moving away from the correct British "English". Get them to change, and a standardised Global English would be achievable. This of course doesn't include slang :P

<end American spelling rant> :-#

[Lucas]

Why do you limeys call gasoline petrol? or cigarettes fags.or cocks noob ends or jerking off wanking.:Eng111:

[Ridgeback]

Why do you limeys call gasoline petrol? or cigarettes fags.or cocks noob ends or jerking off wanking.:Eng111:

oh the irony!

[Lucas]

Ok i"ll stop being an arse.

[Santo]

Well, i don't know if this has anything to do with this or not. But i do think that english, as any other widely used language, will be prone to change over time, and as second language, this change will most likely be made into making it easier for those that use it. For example i'm sure we will start to see a lot of words change to make it easier for chinese speakers.

Ridge, i understand your enthusiasm towards the use of correct language, I find myself often correcting others in my own language. However, you have to take under consideration that the use of some deformed words become part of the cultural diversity of a certain group, and thus becomes somehow correct. Of course there is some language aberrations that should just be erased and forgotten ;). Also the use of new theconolgy in our daily routines has considerably affected (for the worse if you ask me) the way we use language, any language not just english.

Any ways, back to the original argument, this idea of global english isn't quite as out there is it might sound. I believe a simplified version of english will be commonly accepted to ensure a more effective way of comunicating.

Sorry for any spelling or gramatical errors you might find here, but english is my second language, and i make an effort to use it correctly.

[the squid of despair]

So Ridge. Do you ever use terms like lol or lmao? Use u instead of you? Any others? If you're so hell bent on using "Proper English" why don't you say "Has ye haveth the time to for me thyne time to meet at the shope for a round of lager?"

[One Hit]

am i missing anything? i wish there was something like a global standard. in fact, you always have to adapt to the regional circumstances. a standardised english is neither spread by the media nor by the internet. for instance, what's the standardised term for trunk, boot respectively? main storage? luggage compartment?
talking about the standardised english, what's the global spelling of the word 'standardised'?

feel free to discuss the consequences of a lack of standards and how people speaking english as a second language will worsen it.

Firstly, great subject to have a discussion on tim... its a good topic :)

Now when i was travelling over seas a few years back i used to go on lonelyplanet.com and read in the forums because i was worried about language barriers when travelling to non-english speaking countries.
Something that was brought up there i have never heard anyone answer properly to anyones satisfaction... which of these would be correct in theory."burned" or "burnt"?
at the time it made no sense at all to me and then it clicked! if you listen closely, people say both, the same people say both sometimes.. how does this work and can anyone think of a reason it happens?

[tca]

I just gotta say i agree with Ridgeback for the most part. I live in Australia and we use the same spellings etc for words that the British do, Im by no means putting down America, but, ok so i am. This isn't the time or place to do that, Im just saying that if America wants to us the English language, they could atleast do it right.

One hit makes a good point too about two words spelt different that mean exactly the same thing. Which is the correct word to use in certain situations? Also just on the American thing, most schools here if they see a word spelt the way the Americans spell it, mark it wrong, so yeah.

Just wanted to share. :D

[Calienta]

America and Canada seem to be the worst culprits of moving away from the correct British "English".


Canadians use British English... Favourite, Analyse, etc etc. The trouble we have is a lot of people here spell incorrectly and use American versions.

[Grendel]

I suppose it's understandable that Canadians are moving away from 'British-English' towards using more 'American-English', after all they are Canada's nearest neighbours...

What really annoys me though, far more, is the rise in the use of deliberately misspelled words. 'Tonite' is one that particularly grates with me. There is a building close to where I live that put on a summer playscheme for the local 5-11 year olds. The name they chose was 'Kidz Klub' - Why? What is the point of using a 'z' instead of an 's'? Or a 'K' to spell club.

I also detest 'Text-speak' - many people have stopped sending me texts because unless they're written in English, I correct them and send them back...

[Calienta]

Yeah I'm pretty anal with that kind of thing as well. I never write 2 in place of too or to, and I don't use u for you. I can't stand any of that stuff :$

[Santo]

Yeah I'm pretty anal with that kind of thing as well. I never write 2 in place of too or to, and I don't use u for you. I can't stand any of that stuff :$

Except when she is cybering Naz :-# (j/k)

[Calienta]

Who cybers nowadays?? We have phone sex using proper grammar :twisted:

[One Hit]

Who cybers nowadays?? We have phone sex using proper grammar :twisted:

lmfao!! simply hilarious! :D

the other children laughed at me when we had a spelling test in yr 5 and i (spelled/spelt) Jail, when everyone else wrote down Gaol. honestly i didnt know wtf was going on lol :$ :$

[Spork!!!]

This is an interesting discussion. I believe that a language must continue to grow and evolve, or it will die. The "english" language has always been a conglomerate of (ancient?) latin, and other modern languages. As the Commonwealth expanded, so did the vocabulary of words in the language.
Now that the internet is such a driving force in mass media, for text based informatoin, a "universal" language has to be adopted, and at the moment it is english. I hope it remains so, because I don't think I could come to grips with Mandarin Chinese.
Has anyone else mentioned another murderer of "correct" grammar, spelling and punctuation as the rise of the "txt", or "sms" used daily by millions to communicate?
No-one is immune! All of us use words that didn't even exist a decade ago, and are now "in the dictionary". I hope the language continuse to thrive and evolve, but not too fast. That's enough serious for me, I'm going for some cones now.

[Sir Brian]

There is a building close to where I live that put on a summer playscheme for the local 5-11 year olds. The name they chose was 'Kidz Klub' - Why? What is the point of using a 'z' instead of an 's'? Or a 'K' to spell club.

I studied English Language at A-Level, finishing with a B grade last year... :whistle:

You make a reasonable point Grendle, however the use of illiteration is obviously an attempt at making the "Kidz Klub" more appealing, as is the use of "Z" which holds conotations of the new age and technology.

And while we sneer at the fucking "text lingo" that todays children use in written English & even more dreadfully in spoken English; it is the very basis of British English Language. From Industrial England to the Scottish Islands and post-industrial Inner Cities there is always a non-standard language which holds prestiege; so why should English and technology be any different? This community has developed the "text lingo" as a way of identifying with each other, and often, more importantly as a way of excluding outsiders... i.e Parents and Teachers whom wish to know what the freekin hel they iz tlkn aboot!

So, as much as it hurts me to say it, we must accept the way the yanks (you lot aint worth a capital letter) bastardise "our" language.

However what really gets my goat is hinged around the point One Hit made, "burnt" or "burned"... to me it is quite plain and obvious that "I burnt myself last night" rather than the quite brainless alternative "I burned myself last night". This is known as overgeneralisation, and it is what children do while first acquiring their language skills; which is their way of exploring the language and using it to interact with the environment. The first steps of generalisation in language aquisition is to lable everything as "mummy" or "daddy"; because it takes a fair amount of time for babies/children to realise the concept of nouns as lables for specific things/beings. (rather than labling apples, chairs, brother & sisters as "mummy" :hehe:) However the generalisation of "burned" or "runned" is a way of younger children to use the basic "rules" of the English language at a very early stage, before they are taught/acquire the finer ins and outs of our beautiful language. YET this stage of overgeneralisation should be passed at 8 - 10 y/o; and thus this is where my hatred lies, it is pure pig ignorance for teenagers and adults to be using burned and runned instead of burnt and ran.

Another pet hate of mine is when the americans on this forum/games sneer at us British for using colloquial language and phrases that they dont understand, it was put to me in my studies that americans, for unknown reasons, will desperately move away from using slang, colloquial phrases, regional dialect and mannerisms...

e.g.
"its not half"
"half inched"
"wanker!"
tbh i canna think of many atm but i know i have been shot down many times for using colloquial British English...

and i think its such intricacies and characteristics of our language that makes it soo wonderful! :bleh:

:fu: to any twat that pulls me up on spelling and grammar. :)