Battle of the Sexes?

[YetAnotherKitten]

Without finding a proper article to sort all my thoughts out, I give you this menagerie to assemble and express your veiws upon.

The ultimate question: Do Men and Women have a natural tendancy to be competative?

Through internet research (no time for anything else unfortunetly) I have found that a lot of experiments and study detail that from a few strange minutes as a fetus which create gender males and females live completely different physical lives.

this according to abc.net.au (http://www.abc.net.au/cgi-bin/common/printfriendly.pl?/catalyst/stories/s686728.htm)

How does this work for--or against the sexes in their relationships??

This age is the age of feminism. It is seemingly the age of equality-or atleast the attempt to reach it.

I have found that it is even difficult for a woman to define what exactly is equal and also natural--

http://www.worldmagblog.com/blog/archives/026209.html

This blog details a debate on career women and marraige but is overshadowed by angst between supposed stereotypes and what I see as the natural competitive force between men and women.

Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better!! I Can Do Anything Better Than You!!~~Annie Get Your Gun-Irving Berlin

But I have found an article that looks at something very close:

http://clearinghouse.missouriwestern.edu/manuscripts/146.asp

"Subjects were asked to enter a room and sit by one of two stock pots. Subjects were asked to immerse one hand into the water above the wrist.

The experimenter started a stop watch for each participant at the time their hands went in the water.

Subjects were told they may sit or stand to their comfort and that they may remove their hand at any time from the water. The researcher stopped the stop watch for each subject when they removed their hand.

Subjects were timed in groups of two. The groups were the experimental conditions. The three different conditions were male versus male, female versus female or male versus female"

Their findings are that men are generally more competative than women regardless of with gender they are pitted against.

Though this experiment is full of holes it is not the only I have found on the subject

A long document produced by standford http://www.stanford.edu/group/SITE/Gneezy2.pdf#search=%22gender%20competition%22 backs up this claim that men are more competative and the exsistance of women does neither raise nor lower that level. Nor I assume have they found significance in the women where men are concerned but they don't seem to talk about it much.

Anyhow I could go on but I'd like to stop and get some responses.

[CerealKiller]

There will always be a competition.

For example..though we're not in a relationship there is Steven and I..

We will always supe up our cars and claim to be faster than one another and never get the chance to race..

I'm sure at the wedding we will try to out drink one another..

And I'm positive I am better at Rumbling Roses than him..

I find that a little competition is healthy. Fuck, if we were together it may even result in hot angry sex *lmao*

Only those who are not confident in themselves would ever let a man/woman get to them.

[Aeon]

what if your a lesbian and a homo...?

[YetAnotherKitten]

Wow serious discussion has really gone down the hole hasn't it...

[the squid of despair]

Wow serious discussion has really gone down the hole hasn't it...

Your topic sucks and this isn't a serious discussion. Should have been AIW in the first place.

[YetAnotherKitten]

Well I actually posted it AS a serious disscussion that a FRIEND OF MINE was interested in ALSO but then everyone shat on it and makes it look like a joke so my friend porlly wont say shit now.

Thanks :D

[Aeon]

I was dead serious....

if you have a lesbian and a homo...

assuming that a lesbo is a man and a homo is a girl....
however obviously a lebso is a woman and a homo is a guy...

who would be better then?

[YetAnotherKitten]

I was dead serious....

if you have a lesbian and a homo...

assuming that a lesbo is a man and a homo is a girl....
however obviously a lebso is a woman and a homo is a guy...

who would be better then?

oh yea I forgot about yours.. hehe.

Thats a good point!! Sort of..

That brings us to question of gender stereotypes... are they real or not??

But, unfortunetly you missed the point. The original question is not "who is better" but actually--is there competition?

to be honest I don't know wether I've proved that people think I'm boring and only half read what I'm writing or that males and females are incresingly concerned about who's better and its comepletely natural...to the point that its the only thing they see in this..

So anyway according to the studies there is no actual natural competition between males and females (atleast not as children or psyche students and not in the small select groups). If one is gay does that still rign true?? Does the man still feel he's competing with other men only??

More importantly within a relationship. Does a dating couple often compete with each other to be in control or to get what they want/think is best??

I'm just curious.

[Aeon]

well then,... do you think lesbians and homosexuals feel naturally competitive.
and do they feel competitive with each other?

[miemio]

No problem. It's a serious subject. More so for you... what on earth would you do if we stopped bringing home the bacon!?! ;)
Actually.. seeing as there are more women getting educations, and they are generally very good at getting them, the *bringing home the bacon* argument is starting to get outdated.

As for competition between the sexes..
One way of looking at it is that since men have had so much control over women for such a long time it has made them feel afraid of what will happen when they loose that control. That will breed a competitive attitude towards women. (It's scary when the women actually can amount to things, be good at the same things as them. 100 years ago women weren't even "humans" in the same way men were, they were seen to be intellectually inferior.)

Women on the other hand may feel indignation because of the treatment their fellow women have experienced, and will want to get back whats theirs, and maybe overdoing it a bit by getting in control of the men. That can breed a competitive attitude the other way. (Getting high on the thought that they can do anything just as well and sometimes even better than men, breeds selfrighteousness)

Because women and men view themselves as so different there will always be competition, everybody wants to be on the winning team. So we use sexism, (fe)male manipulation, economic enslavery, and talk past eachother with our different languages (women have a bigger vocabulary than men and can discuss complex issues, perhaps better between woman - woman than between a woman - man. On the other hand men might have a clearer and more consicise way of communicating, that can be more effective. There has been research on if there's a gap of understanding between the sexes based on our differences in communicationskills.).

But thats the gender-war way of looking at it.

In relationships I believe there will always be competition in being the strongest part, the one who is most in love will always be the weaker part. Who gets that role within a relationship seems to be completely random, and I cant see why it shouldn't apply to homosexual relationships too.
Competition like that is unhealthy if one part stays the weaker part all the time, but I think that it's good for the internal dynamic of the relationship if both parts alternate in having the strongest position.

That was love.. Then the biological aspect:

I can't see why we should be competitive from an evolutionary viewpoint, the sexes depend on eachother for survival. We might have slightly different biology, but I can't see why or how that should breed competitiveness and not cooperation to keep the species diverse and alive..

In sum...I think it's all about wanting to be in control, be on the winning team, and the gendercompetition has roots in us viewing men and women as very different, and therefore we identify with genderstereotypics and take part in sexism and other ways of controlling eachother.

Cure: A view of men and women as equal, so we identify with both genders.

[YetAnotherKitten]

thankyou soo much!!

I really like how you say that it is best to identify each other as equals but yet you recognize differences and societal environment having an effect on competition within a relationship and out of it.

But i think that the control is an after effect of the real problem-

' Women on the other hand may feel indignation because of the treatment their fellow women have experienced, and will want to get back whats theirs, and maybe overdoing it a bit by getting in control of the men. That can breed a competitive attitude the other way. (Getting high on the thought that they can do anything just as well and sometimes even better than men, breeds selfrighteousness)'

Or even more so by women who interact act with an old fashioned community. When, as a woman you have to insult a man to prove that you know what you are talking about. And then you get used to it and start insulting anyone that shows the slightest doubt in you.

I think -much like battle for racial equality- that some areas are more on to it than others and it may very well be that some areas of the world will NEVER see how this can be possible.

Thankyou soooo much...you really haven't a clue how helpful your post is hehe..

(f)

[Buckledmac]

woman always want to be equal until it comes to sorting out a chuffin spider or rat LOL

[miemio]

Thankyou soooo much...you really haven't a clue how helpful your post is hehe..
Really... You're writing an assignment or something? Or in a quarrel with the boyfriend?

woman always want to be equal until it comes to sorting out a chuffin spider or rat LOL
hehe
Ok, so sometimes women act hysterical in those situations, but I assure you thats just because we are brought up to be helpless, other times it's just because we like the feeling of being rescued, a little taste of what it would be like if someone could actually save us from anything!

Now let me tell you what it really is: female manipulation, we cater to your ego, make you feel like a big and important savior when infact we can easily handle our own spiders and rats. What do you think we do when there are no men around?
(And who do you think has cleaned all the dark spiderinfested corners of cellars in the past centuries? Men?!)
:P

[Buckledmac]

hehe
Ok, so sometimes women act hysterical in those situations, but I assure you thats just because we are brought up to be helpless, other times it's just because we like the feeling of being rescued, a little taste of what it would be like if someone could actually save us from anything!

Now let me tell you what it really is: female manipulation, we cater to your ego, make you feel like a big and important savior when infact we can easily handle our own spiders and rats. What do you think we do when there are no men around?
(And who do you think has cleaned all the dark spiderinfested corners of cellars in the past centuries? Men?!)
:P


:P i got ya there didnt i miemo hunny heh heh

[Knuckles]

ken wat i think each sex has their part in makin sure the other sex doesn't fuk up or go mad in the case of men cause if i had tae live withoot lassies id go fukin roond the bend.

[So Warped]

ken wat i think each sex has their part in makin sure the other sex doesn't fuk up or go mad in the case of men cause if i had tae live withoot lassies id go fukin roond the bend.
Know what I think. Each sex has their part in making sure the other sex doesn't fuck up or go mad in the case of men. Because if I had to live without women I would go fucking round the bend.
.....

[Beli]

if a woman's place is in the kitchen, why are there so many male chefs?
every resteraunt/bar i have worked at had a male chef and a male dishwasher
however, the owners were mostly female. :)

[St.Michael]

if a woman's place is in the kitchen, why are there so many male chefs?
every resteraunt/bar i have worked at had a male chef and a male dishwasher
however, the owners were mostly female. :)


Someone needs to supervise :P


I don't necessarily think its a bad thing that women cook and stay home with the kids, to me its not so much as say that you can't do anything else its just that women were blessed with gifts that men aren't. Women are more gentle, loving, and caring so therefore are more ept to taking care of the family and their emotional needs while men think more along the line of taking care of the family financially.

Doesn't mean the roles can't interchange, but if you think about it the family is better off. If both parents are out working all the time and doing the same job then the kids are left without the care they should be getting. If the women has a better job and naturally makes more money it also seems to create conflict between spouses with the man feeling threatened.

I think its the way it is for a reason and it shouldn't be changed.

[Phoenix]

Actually.. seeing as there are more women getting educations, and they are generally very good at getting them, the *bringing home the bacon* argument is starting to get outdated.

As for competition between the sexes..
One way of looking at it is that since men have had so much control over women for such a long time it has made them feel afraid of what will happen when they loose that control. That will breed a competitive attitude towards women. (It's scary when the women actually can amount to things, be good at the same things as them. 100 years ago women weren't even "humans" in the same way men were, they were seen to be intellectually inferior.)

Women on the other hand may feel indignation because of the treatment their fellow women have experienced, and will want to get back whats theirs, and maybe overdoing it a bit by getting in control of the men. That can breed a competitive attitude the other way. (Getting high on the thought that they can do anything just as well and sometimes even better than men, breeds selfrighteousness)

Because women and men view themselves as so different there will always be competition, everybody wants to be on the winning team. So we use sexism, (fe)male manipulation, economic enslavery, and talk past eachother with our different languages (women have a bigger vocabulary than men and can discuss complex issues, perhaps better between woman - woman than between a woman - man. On the other hand men might have a clearer and more consicise way of communicating, that can be more effective. There has been research on if there's a gap of understanding between the sexes based on our differences in communicationskills.).

But thats the gender-war way of looking at it.

In relationships I believe there will always be competition in being the strongest part, the one who is most in love will always be the weaker part. Who gets that role within a relationship seems to be completely random, and I cant see why it shouldn't apply to homosexual relationships too.
Competition like that is unhealthy if one part stays the weaker part all the time, but I think that it's good for the internal dynamic of the relationship if both parts alternate in having the strongest position.

That was love.. Then the biological aspect:

I can't see why we should be competitive from an evolutionary viewpoint, the sexes depend on eachother for survival. We might have slightly different biology, but I can't see why or how that should breed competitiveness and not cooperation to keep the species diverse and alive..

In sum...I think it's all about wanting to be in control, be on the winning team, and the gendercompetition has roots in us viewing men and women as very different, and therefore we identify with genderstereotypics and take part in sexism and other ways of controlling eachother.

Cure: A view of men and women as equal, so we identify with both genders.

unfortunatly, those who are usually in power are still male, and with that barrier, it's difficult for women to become equal in the workplace. We had a discussion the other day, if hillary clinton ran for president ( i don't know if she is, i haven't been paying too much attn). There is no way that she would win. Even if the platform she was running on was attractive to 90% of the US voters, she still wouldn't win. People in the US are still too sexist to realize that women can deal with as much stuff as men do, even more.

The other reason men and women STILL aren't treated equally is that in upper level jobs, such as managerial and executive positions. Men are still paid up to 25% more than women for the same position at the same company.