A Religion question, that anyone can participate in b/c i said so

[hoos]

So I was thinking the other day about God creating the earth, and the big bang theory stuff below and got to thinking to myself (I do that alot), how long were the 7 days that God took to create the world? Now you might say, Scott, you're dumb, it was 7 days. But was it really 7 days/168 hours as we know it?

Noah lived to be an extremely old age, like 900 years or something. Joseph (Jacob's son) was like 110 when he died. Now not that i don't believe this could have happened, but I think that the numbers here represented a different count, versus what we know today. Now to get to my point, how long was a day to create the world? There were so many miracles performed in the Old Testament, and with Jesus in the new. This was over a period from 2000 BC - 60 AD (or so). Let's assume that 2000 of our years equals one day, which was mentioned above. Now let's also say that we are living during the 7th day of God's week. Could this be why we see no miracles happening each day? Or do you think that it's b/c of the open-mindedness of today, and the technological advances of today, that tell us there is no miracle happening?

Sorry if that didn't make sense, let me know and I'll try and edit/commentary on it.

[the squid of despair]

There are miracles every day, most are just blind to them. Although you may not witness the miracles, they are there. As for time, it is man made. Time has changed. The way years were counted in the past were different form today. As for God, there is no time. God does not revolve around time, it is non-existent.

[St.Michael]

There are miracles every day, most are just blind to them. Although you may not witness the miracles, they are there. As for time, it is man made. Time has changed. The way years were counted in the past were different form today. As for God, there is no time. God does not revolve around time, it is non-existent.

Exactly, God doesn't exist in the realm of time.

Well as you probably know adam and eve were ment to be the start of a perfect human race where they live forever with God, but because of sin they no longer have the gift of eternal life on earth. But as it was explained to me they were still very close to perfect so therefore lived alot longer than what people do today. As time goes on sin corrupts us more and more and we grow further from what God originally had planned for us.

[Grendel]

There are no miracles because there is no god.

[Colonel Sanders]

Religious followers such as some christians will believe that a perfectly legit medical recovery is a miracle so I would say it's how you define miracle.

Some people call life or birth a miracle so I pose the question what do you mean by miracle in this instance? Something science cannot explain or something that we find amazing but can still comprehend through medical or scientific knowledge.

I do not believe in God so when christians see miracles, I simply see something that we as a human race have not yet discovered and defined. All you have to do is look through history to see that todays "miracles" can be perfectly explained with science in 200 years or so.

But to your first statements about the age of those people in the Bible. Let me say that this is the old testament and VERY OLD history. Just because it comes from the bible does not mean it happened (although alot actualy has). Now that doesn't so much matter; back then time and days, months, years were counted and scaled differently. Noah living to be 900 years (years as we know it) is biologically impossible so it's logical to assume that when it says 900 years it's not years as we know it, rather it would be more like 120 years in todays calendar.

[Mark]

the reason there are no mircles is because god is a creation of man. That is why there has not being a "miracle' in 2000 years

[St.Michael]

the reason there are no mircles is because god is a creation of man. That is why there has not being a "miracle' in 2000 years

And what makes you an expert? Why should I take your word over any christian? What makes your view right and his wrong?

[Mark]

do you mean about my view that god is the creation of man or the lack of miracle's

God is the creation of man because humanity needed explanation of all the things that happened and i assume you believe the same or how can you explain all of the mytholgy that has appeared in all of human culture.

I define mircles as something that is impossible and there hasent being any in seculer history. By mircle i mean the way it is in the bible, nile turned into blood parting the red sea that kind of thing. I think that if a christian amputee grows his legs back i will believe anything else can be explained by science

[Tonglong43]

There are no miracles because there is no god.Quoted for absolute truth

[hoos]

I don't want this to get into a debate of does God exist our not, there are enough threads for that.

K.A.F., that's what I was getting at about the years that they recorded. It says God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. And to go along with what other ppl said (kinda) time is a creation of man and God doesn't live in time. But in our measurement of time, how long is a day? I am a christian, but a scientist as well. I know, sounds oxymoron-ish, but I believe that a 'day' that God took to create the earth is very long. Many things weren't created until certain times, like humans approx. 4 million years ago, but dinosaurs, 500 million years ago. A day could just be 300 million years, and we just be in the 7th 'day' of God's existence.

[St.Michael]

Quoted for absolute truth

Thats funny because truth is defined as a verified or indisputable fact or principle and I don't see how you would have the knowledge or capacity to know such a thing.

[Furyous]

Well, my dad majored in Theology before he went to med school, and reads about two to three books a week, mostly on religious theory. He's always thought that the bible should not be taken literally. It is a book given to you to help guide you. People that make too much out of the details often seem to miss out on the greater lessons that can be learned. I don't really know if that makes any sense or not, but that's always been my viewpoint. The other thing you have to understand about the bible is that many of the stories were not recored for long periods of time after they took place. So, you have to assume that some of the stories had to be stretched a bit. Remember the game telephone? By the time the story gets back to the first person that told it, it's almost never the same.

One of the best classes I ever took in college was Phlosophy of Religion, taught by an Atheist. For our final paper we had to explain why or why not miracles are impossible. The professors take on it is that god, if you believe in him created the rules of the universe, including scientific laws. Now because we know in physics that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, he claimed to know that for a miraculous event to take place, something tragic would have to take place somewhere else. I got a B on my paper becase of my grammatical errors and spelling, but he had no argument against my theory.

Here's the theory in a nutshell. If you believe God created the Universe and everything that makes it work, then would it also not be possible that he could bend his own laws. I mean, he made the laws in the first place, who's to say he didn't build in loopholes? The paper was long and drawn out, but that was the premise.

I don't claim to know for fact that God exists. I don't go to church, but I choose to believe that there is some sort of God, and I choose to follow the basic rules set out in the bible, because as I see it, at the very least, I'll leave this planet having led a decent life, and really, if there is nothing after life here, is that such a bad thing? I've unfortunately had a few friends that have passed away in the 30 years I've been around. The ones that everyone seems to miss the most and the biggest funerals I attended were the guys that touched everyones lives in a positive manner. I figure that if I do my best to follow the rules, maybe when it's my turn to go, at the very least, I will have left this world trying to make a difference, and will leave some sort of legacy behind. Not as if I am ever going to be president of the US or CEO of microsoft, but those who know me best will remember me who I was and hopefully for what a damned good person I was and I will be respected for who I was when I was here. Why the hell not, and if there is a God, sweet!;)

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't want this to get into a debate of does God exist our not, there are enough threads for that.

K.A.F., that's what I was getting at about the years that they recorded. It says God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. And to go along with what other ppl said (kinda) time is a creation of man and God doesn't live in time. But in our measurement of time, how long is a day? I am a christian, but a scientist as well. I know, sounds oxymoron-ish, but I believe that a 'day' that God took to create the earth is very long. Many things weren't created until certain times, like humans approx. 4 million years ago, but dinosaurs, 500 million years ago. A day could just be 300 million years, and we just be in the 7th 'day' of God's existence.

So basically what you are trying to say is that God. Whoever this "God" is it is a supreme power and the earth was created through scientific means. And not just magical means; I.E. "God" thinks about it in his divine wisdom and boom it happens. So through science he created, wether that means evolution or some other theory you and others may believe in.

What you are saying is a Scientists view on God and creation. Which is what most "science-christians" will do becasue they can't take things literal or do not have enough "faith" to believe things unconditionally as a christian.

I've heard that come from alot of christians and it's perfectly legit for a christian to believe in something like that to explain creation and God from a scientist point of view and still be a devout christian.

But anyways I think it's all a moot point. A "true" christian should not care or even try to come up with his own hypothesis about how creation came about and how God did it. Just have "faith" as they say (y)

[hoos]

That's very interesting Furyous. If God did create the rules, I bet he could bend them, though I don't think we would see them as being bent, just as a new rule, or law he's created.

K.A.F I'm not sure what you are meaning by a true christian. I have faith that many things happened in the Bible and do not question God's power or strength. I'm more of wondering how he did it. In a world like today with the knowledge we have, I can't just accept that 'poof!' and it was there. I believe that God created things and set them in motion to happen in a specific way.

Also, I've been studying Joshua, and there is a part where the Ark of the Covenant is crossing a River (I think the Jordan). Following is millions of Israelites going into the Promised Land. The Ark stands in the middle of the river and the water stops flowing, like it is dry land. In the footnotes of my Bible, it says that it was recorded that a massive landslide, 25 miles away had dammed up the river. That means that the landslide was created, at an exact moment that it would take the water to travel 25 miles downstream and end right when the ppl set foot in the riverbed. I find that pretty amazing.

[Metall_fan]

Einstein once said: "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

In my opinion, arguing about God's existance, especially over the Internet, is an utter waste of time, so I won't go there.

As for the length of 7 creation days, I've heard this theory many times before hoos, and just like any other religious argument it has numerous for and against explanations. The thing is that everything in the Bible is open to interpretation, and then there are interpretations for interpretations and so on, so the day you die will be the day you find out the truth ;)

[hoos]

but I just want to know what some interpretations are. The best way to learn things is to talk to other ppl about their thoughts, and what opinions they have.

[Nickything]

Religion, God etc were the creation of those in power to keep the poor workers oppressed and pliant ( in fear of God) keep themselves in power and justify social order ( the Divine right of Kings being one example) and also to make the poor feel better about being exploited and oppressed... God loves the poor, bring on the afterlife etc

[Grendel]

Shhhh Nicky! Us unbelievers aren't allowed to post in this thread! I have rep that says so!

[the squid of despair]

Shhhh Nicky! Us unbelievers aren't allowed to post in this thread! I have rep that says so!


It's because you don't post any thing with meaning. You just take cheap shots and attack people who decide to have faith.

[Nickything]

Not at all Killa, I respect other people's right to worship and believe in whatever they wish to. I just don't share that same need to put my trust in some faceless entity that there is no proof exists. I know right from wrong I don;t need a set of moral guidelines from any "god"

[Pot4life]

maybe the 7 days was a prediction and time itself was anticipated and god is still making shit happen like me typing this?

[hoos]

maybe the 7 days was a prediction and time itself was anticipated and god is still making shit happen like me typing this?

Thanks for actually responding to the topic, gladl everyone else is trashing this thread.


That's what I was thinking pot4life. That we could still be in the 7th day and that God is resting. The whole book of Revelations hasn't happened but I believe it will. Who's to say that Genesis is a written plan of God's work yet to come?

[Grendel]

It's because you don't post any thing with meaning. You just take cheap shots and attack people who decide to have faith.

Cheap shots? Attacks on people who decide to have faith? Show me where I attacked people in this thread...

There are no miracles because there is no god.

That's what I posted, no attack on those that chose to believe in a god. No cheap shot. Just a simple statement of my own personal belief. Nothing more.

[Dymond]

Cheap shots? Attacks on people who decide to have faith? Show me where I attacked people in this thread...



That's what I posted, no attack on those that chose to believe in a god. No cheap shot. Just a simple statement of my own personal belief. Nothing more.

A cheap can be defined as saying something to hurt someone without any basis behind what your saying..not that I mean this but what Killaho is saying is that what you said is the equivalent of me coming into a post and saying
'Grendal is gay and likes little boys' without saying I have a video of you doing so or I saw you hanging around an elementary school with candy. You said something derogatory about god and walked off without at least trying to explain why you believe that..thats a cheap shot. BTW I don't think your gay and like little boys but I was using it as the example.

[Grendel]

OK. I can understand where you're coming from, that doesn't mean I agree with you though...

The original question was about why miracles don't occur anymore, my answer explained why I personally believe miracles don't occur, nothing more.

I wasn't attacking anyones personal beliefs, I was just stating my own. However, if I did offend anyone I apologise, it wasn't my intention to do so.


Addition:

I find it strange that people can get so upset at me posting a statement of my own belief, yet nobody - and I'm sorry to say that includes me - objected when, in another thread, Islam was vilified for Mohammed's supposed paedophilia.

Double standards?

[hoos]

Will y'all make another thread. That's what is fucking wrong with this section. There is a topic and and you guys fuck it all up. Thanks. I appreciate it.

[gotalot2do]

Will y'all make another thread. That's what is fucking wrong with this section. There is a topic and and you guys fuck it all up. Thanks. I appreciate it.

I don't know where I stand on the whole god subject,

I do know however that I can't believe I just read this whole thread and the only thing that stands out is the creater has just told everyone to go to another thread for what reason "I don't know", it looks from here that this has been a perfectly good debate and was rather enjoying it.

[Nickything]

Hoos, all that I am trying to say is that as a non believer i don;t believe miracles ever did occur, not in the sense that you mean anyway. I think the debate so far has been interesting and not off topic. I'm sorry if you wanted all posts to only reflect the question posed in your original post but debates do and IMO should sometimes go off on tangents related to the topic. That doesn't mean the debate won't naturally get back to where you want it.

[Grendel]

Hoos - I find it odd that you give the thread the title 'A Religion question, that anyone can participate in because i said so' then complain when people with views that you don't coincide with yours reply.

Having said that I'll withdraw from your thread.

[So Warped]

Many things weren't created until certain times, like humans approx. 4 million years ago, but dinosaurs, 500 million years ago. A day could just be 300 million years, and we just be in the 7th 'day' of God's existence.

I'd like to know how God creates "things".
Does she just click her fingers and *poof* dinosaurs apperar?
Does she create every single atom, element, object individually?
Does she even create things like pot noodles, hardwood flooring and Welshmen who have amorous feelings for sheep?

[hoos]

First-Yes I created this thread for anyone to post in.

Second- I did not create this thread to debate whether God exists or not. No where have I asked that, and don't want to debate that. I was looking for a discussion on the topic of time issues in the bible. I'm very open to your views Grendel. I'd rather talk to someone who doesn't agree with me to learn what they have to say. I just don't want to sit here and argue about a completely different topic. Maybe I should have renamed the thread, but I wasn't looking for Believers vs. Non-Believers, which this turned into.


And SW that's a whole 'nother topic.

[Furyous]

I'd like to know how God creates "things".
Does she just click her fingers and *poof* dinosaurs apperar?
Does she create every single atom, element, object individually?
Does she even create things like pot noodles, hardwood flooring and Welshmen who have amorous feelings for sheep?

Well, my perspective on this one would be... Who knows? I'm no religious scholar myself, but can science tell us how dinosaurs actually came into existence? Can it tell us where the atoms, elements, and objects all came from? Or even how those Welshman obtained the chemical make up to acquire the amorou feeling for sheep?

I truely believe that many church goers have distanced themselves for too long from the scientific world. I think the two can co-exist. That said, we are all living with one form of blind faith or another. You base yours off from human scientists that come up with explanations that make sense to you and others out there, and religious folks base theirs off from other explanations or in my case, and I believe in Hoos case, a combination of both. One way or another the blind are leading the blind to try to come up with an explanation for our existence.

I honestly don't believe that one side has a better argument than the other. We all have to live as we see fit. In the end, those on either side will either be right or they'll be wrong. The only way we'll ever know is when our time here is up....

[Calienta]

Well, my perspective on this one would be... Who knows? I'm no religious scholar myself, but can science tell us how dinosaurs actually came into existence? Can it tell us where the atoms, elements, and objects all came from? Or even how those Welshman obtained the chemical make up to acquire the amorous feeling for sheep?



Just a little side note - Way back when... Science couldn't even tell us why a storm would suddenly hit a ship while out at sea, or why the sun would be eclipsed. The people decided it was God's doing. So I really don't know that we can use the 'science can't explain it', because science isn't as progressed as it can and will eventually be. There will always be something we don't understand, but I do believe that eventually, as has happened in the past, it will be explained.


Sorry Hoos for getting off your topic. I find it very interesting the whole 7 day theory you introduced, and while I went to church at one point I don't any longer and I don't feel I can discuss it with any sort of knowledge with you. I'll just have to stick with the science vs. God thing lol. Sorry (f)

/me leaves thread.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

So I was thinking the other day about God creating the earth, and the big bang theory stuff below and got to thinking to myself (I do that alot), how long were the 7 days that God took to create the world? Now you might say, Scott, you're dumb, it was 7 days. But was it really 7 days/168 hours as we know it?

Noah lived to be an extremely old age, like 900 years or something. Joseph (Jacob's son) was like 110 when he died. Now not that i don't believe this could have happened, but I think that the numbers here represented a different count, versus what we know today. Now to get to my point, how long was a day to create the world? There were so many miracles performed in the Old Testament, and with Jesus in the new. This was over a period from 2000 BC - 60 AD (or so). Let's assume that 2000 of our years equals one day, which was mentioned above. Now let's also say that we are living during the 7th day of God's week. Could this be why we see no miracles happening each day? Or do you think that it's b/c of the open-mindedness of today, and the technological advances of today, that tell us there is no miracle happening?

Sorry if that didn't make sense, let me know and I'll try and edit/commentary on it.

god is a figment of mass hysteria caused by peoples inability to explain things

[So Warped]

And SW that's a whole 'nother topic.
I'm not so sure.
Does it take 1000 years to create a dinosaur but maybe only 5 minutes to create hardwood flooring?

[the squid of despair]

god is a figment of mass hysteria caused by peoples inability to explain things

So is science...

[So Warped]

So is science...

I'm taking you off the list of honorary Brits, get back to your log cabin and chew some tobacco.

[Dymond]

Alright Hoos..I was actually going to bring that up in my last thread but back to your question..I believe the days aren't literal. I believe they marked when He/She started and when He/She stopped.

[Beli]

Alright Hoos..I was actually going to bring that up in my last thread but back to your question..I believe the days aren't literal. I believe they marked when He/She started and when He/She stopped.
lol this is the most sense i have seen so far. he he leave it to Dy to figure out that God would of course make it as long or short as He/She wanted.
But honestly Hoos, truly something to think about :). or try to figure out where God came from. they say He has always been there but i can't fathom an "always".

[hoos]

I guess that does make sense SW. I believe the hardwood flooring was a project of man, so God would have given him the wisdom to make the flooring, not actually make the flooring. The dinosaurs, I don't know.