"Big Brother" - The War on Gambling

[Maija]

I'm a "scourge on our society"

I pay my taxes.

I work full-time.

I volunteer 15 hours a week to my daughter's cheer team.

I've never missed a school field trip.

I donate to the Susan G. Komen fund.

I buy girls scout cookies.

I let people with just a few items go ahead of me in the grocery line.

I pick up spiders and put them outside instead of killing them.

I'll pick the local coffee shop over Starbucks.

I even bought my crappy 4-cylinder Toyota to "help the environment"


Yet, according to the majority of voting Republicans, I participate in something soo heinous, that Rep. Bob Goodlatte claimed it "is a scourge on our society."

You see, every once in awhile, after I've made dinner, did the laundry, read a bed time story, and tucked my children in, I will turn on my computer, pour myself a pint of Boddingtons, and visit my favorite website in the privacy of my bedroom.


No! You perverts, it's not online porn!! It's something so much more evil and devious that Congress felt it necessary to pass the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.

I am an online gambler.

On Tuesday, 201 Republicans, and 115 Democrats decided that online gambling was the first opponent on their quest to return to good old "American Values." The bill, which is basically prohibition for online gambling, is part of a larger agenda described as "a 10-part "American Values Agenda," along with a constitutional amendment prohibiting same-sex marriage and further restrictions on stem cell research."

So apparently, according to Republicans, I can still enjoy my pint of Boddys and a full evening of midget porn, but "don't you dare try to wager on the outcome!"

So where do we draw the line? When does it become a question of over-legislation and a loss of the "value" of personal responsibility?

Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), the ranking Democrat on the HFSC, spoke in opposition to the bill. He said that "adults are entitled to do with their own money whatever they want, so long as it does not harm others." He added that "the fact that people bet more than they should" is not cause for Congressional legislation.


Although Congress has not actually banned online gaming websites, they have tied the hands of clearing houses that process commerce between these sites and their clients. Once Bush signs the Bill, companies like FirePay and Net Teller will have 270 days to comply with Federal Regulations that require them to deny US commerce transaction with gaming websites.

So there you have it. Apparently, I am everything that is wrong with America today. I am pro-choice. I support stem-cell research. You wanna marry someone of the same sex? Go for it! Why should us heterosexuals suffer marriage alone? ;)

And finally..probably the worst of it all..I gamble online. I take my paltry wages, play a few games of "chance", and slowly degrade all of the American values that this country was built on.

All I have left to say is this...If you try to take away my mojitos and Belvedere next..I'm moving to Europe.

Thank you to the following House Representatives for your "No" vote on this ridiculous bill:

Abercrombie
Ackerman
Andrews
Baca
Baldwin
Becerra
Berkley
Berman
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Carnahan
Carson
Clay
Conyers
Cummings
Davis (IL)
Delahunt
Dingell
Dreier
Engel
Eshoo
Farr
Filner
Flake
Foley
Fossella
Frank (MA)
Gibbons
Gonzalez
Grijalva
Hastings (FL)
Hastings (WA)
Holden
Honda
Hoyer
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Johnson, E. B.
Kennedy (RI)
Kildee
Kilpatrick (MI)
Kind
Kolbe
Kucinich
Lee
LoBiondo
Lofgren, Zoe
Mack
Markey
Matsui
McDermott
McGovern
McKinney
Miller, George
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Ney
Olver
Owens
Pastor
Paul
Poe
Pombo
Porter
Rangel
Reyes
Rohrabacher
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Sánchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Solis
Stark
Tauscher
Tiberi
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Velázquez
Watson
Watt
Weiner
Woolsey
Young (AK)

[Beli]

i just heard about that today Maija. Sucks! however i would just run across the border and get an account in Mexico. easier for you than others that live further from the. but really how can they think to monitor it? there will be away around it.

[miemio]

I think it's a great idea, a lot of people end up in ruin because of gambling addictions, so by making it harder to gamble with money you make it easier for these people to stay away from it. It might suck for you Maija and others who just play for fun and have no problems with it, but it's like the others said; if you really want to do it there will always be ways around it.

[Davecat]

I agree with Maija completely on this one...

People who have problems with gamboling should get help, people with gamboling problems who want to continue to gambol, will. that is the end of it - why make it more diffucult for responsible people to take part in activities they enjoy ? they are not going to solve the problem with their actions...

[Jacx]

Point being miemio as a adult, should i not have the right to use my money i earn in a way that helps relax me? I like to play the tournys, but thats fucked now, another choice taken away!

[the squid of despair]

Point being miemio as a adult, should i not have the right to use my money i earn in a way that helps relax me? I like to play the tournys, but thats fucked now, another choice taken away!

You could always move to the UK...

[Kat]

I think it's a great idea, a lot of people end up in ruin because of gambling addictions, so by making it harder to gamble with money you make it easier for these people to stay away from it. It might suck for you Maija and others who just play for fun and have no problems with it, but it's like the others said; if you really want to do it there will always be ways around it.

From what I understood about this, it's not really about protecting people, it's about the big US gambling corporations leaning on congress to bring in this law so that the smaller online companies (which are mainly British apparently, not sure why), stop stealing their business. I haven't heard about any move to ban off-line gambling, which you'd think would be the next thing on the agenda if they cared so much.

[GENERAL. May Hemm]

where will it end?
Alcoholics? is it the fault of the beer companies that a small minority can't regulate themselves? or the fault of the vendors, corner stores, bars, restaurants, hotels, supermarkets, theatres. Drug addicts? (i mean those addicted to prescribed meds) is it the fault of the pharmaceutical companies or the doctors that prescribe.
Drug addicts? is it the producers fault? the dealers?


I don't know about the US's gaming laws but here you can still go into a bookies and (metaphorically) bet your shirt, house and earnings for the next "#" years on a horse/dog/football match.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Here are some facts about what's been going on with the US and online casino/poker playing.

- This bill tried to get passed as a stand-alone bill, and failed miserably. Basically the war cry was "CLICK YOUR MOUSE, LOSE YOUR HOUSE!" With arguments like that, is it any wonder Fritz couldn't sell this idea? Also, for a long time they've tried to use the Wire Act to cause online gambling to be illegal, but that's never succeeded either.

- It later got passed because it got attached to a port security bill that was going to sail through with flying colors. Typical political weaseling.

- People from the US are not allowed to place bets in games of online gambling, where the profits of the companies are controlled by the games played. (Blackjack and roulette are evil! Evil!!!!!)

- The fact is the big businesses (casinos) hates this move just as much as many of the people that play in online casinos. Pretty much every major spokesman for American casinos wanted a regulation of this which would allow American casinos to compete with the ones overseas. They understand that this is a huge industry and wanted a cut, and the bill makes it nearly impossible for this to happen.

- This bill does not make playing poker illegal, as it has been stated by precedence that poker is considered to be a game of skill. Many popular pokerrooms (such as Party Poker) have shut off access to US accounts, but many others (Pokerstars, Full Tilt Poker) have not. Most of the ones that have shut off access have done so because the companies also have tie-ins with casino playing, and it would be very hard to separate the two divisions for them.

- The status of "E-wallets" such as neteller are in limbo. The reason for this is due to the way this can be enforced. Neteller caters to thousands of online merchants and goes well beyond the scope of just internet gambling, making bank restrictions to and from neteller much harder to justify. Not only this, but if the bank in question does not have the technology to do what they can to be in accordance with the banking regislations, they do not have to worry about it.

- Much more will be known about the status of online gambling or poker play after the 270 days are up.

[Maija]

I think it's a great idea, a lot of people end up in ruin because of gambling addictions, so by making it harder to gamble with money you make it easier for these people to stay away from it. It might suck for you Maija and others who just play for fun and have no problems with it, but it's like the others said; if you really want to do it there will always be ways around it.


My point is...where does government regulation end and personal responsibility begin??

Gambling can be addictive, that is not in dispute.

But so is alcohol, cigarettes, porn, fast food, caffiene, the internet, music, movies, the lottery, sports, video games, shopping, etc....

Any of the things above can be problematic when done in excess or beyond your monetary means...however, does that mean that our government should regulate these activities because we can't control ourselves?? How in any way should the government make decisions about how we spend the money we earn and have paid taxes on?

I hesitate to get too Orwell-ian ... but first it's gambling, then what next?

[TJ60]

i agree with the bill, if you want to gamble go to an casino, riverboat, or where its legal to gamble. Why not invest those 40 -50 dollars you spend everynight into some bonds? 7 years from the day you buy that 50 dollar bond you WIN!! Not to mention how many people mis-clicked and did end up losing a bunch of money.


on a side note, i'm glad it's the republican's fault:P America does need better standards, this might not have been the best place to start....but another 110 democrats thought it was aswell. Without them it never would have passed.

[Jacx]

but jock, i dont play to WIN BIG...i play to relax, the game of poker as in free vs real money are totaly different in mentality, hence i like to play real money, even if its small amounts.... As others have mentioned, its not about the betting money that bothers them most, its about money trasfering round the world that usa cannot control.

[DnD]

"american values"? what a crock of shit, what about minority rights?

would never happen in Canada eh

[the squid of despair]

"american values"? what a crock of shit, what about minority rights?

would never happen in Canada eh


Yeah, Canada would never pass any ridiculous laws...


http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/international/canada/

[Maija]

i agree with the bill, if you want to gamble go to an casino, riverboat, or where its legal to gamble. Why not invest those 40 -50 dollars you spend everynight into some bonds? 7 years from the day you buy that 50 dollar bond you WIN!! Not to mention how many people mis-clicked and did end up losing a bunch of money.


on a side note, i'm glad it's the republican's fault:P America does need better standards, this might not have been the best place to start....but another 110 democrats thought it was aswell. Without them it never would have passed.


Jock....do you not see where this is going? Gambling first...what next? Guns? Alcohol? French Fries?

As someone with Republican "values" you should know that one of the founding points of your party has been through the years "less government regulation." You really should look into the history of party you soo vigorously back. Your stance above is strictly Democratic.

Why do you think the NRA exists?

Everyone is all for government regulation when it doesn't effect them, but watch a bill passed that says you can't drive a car with a low MPG because of oil restrictions...and you would be up in arms over the matter! Imagine a government telling you what kind of car you can drive?

This is about personal responsibility. If some dumbass can't control his gambling habits, then he should get professional help.

Bottom line.......the government wants it's tax cut of a multi-billlion dollar business, and they are going to fly this regulation under that banner of "American values" and all the lemmings will follow.

As for your bond example...how about instead of spending money on car parts or stereo equipment, why don't you buy a bond? That other stuff just depreciates with time. Your bond will appreciate in value.

Sounds ridiculous doesn't it?

American adults should have the right to spend thier money and their free time as they choose, so long as they are not hurting others.

[Kloaked Spirit]

i agree with the bill, if you want to gamble go to an casino, riverboat, or where its legal to gamble. Why not invest those 40 -50 dollars you spend everynight into some bonds? 7 years from the day you buy that 50 dollar bond you WIN!! Not to mention how many people mis-clicked and did end up losing a bunch of money.

Well, there's also the ease and convienence of gambling online. I'm fortunate enough to be near a place with riverboats that I can gamble at. What about those people that live hours away from the nearest pokerroom? We're supposed to just say "tough shit" because of your geographical area?

Oh, and according to this, you're saying that we shouldn't invest in the stock market? The lottery? Horse racing? All of these are completely legal to do online, yet it's at least on par with any other forms of gambling banned here, if not worse.

on a side note, i'm glad it's the republican's fault:P America does need better standards, this might not have been the best place to start....but another 110 democrats thought it was aswell. Without them it never would have passed.

Remember, the only reason why this passed at all was because it got attached to a port security bill. This bill failed numerous times on its own.

[GankOne]

i agree with the bill, if you want to gamble go to an casino, riverboat, or where its legal to gamble. Why not invest those 40 -50 dollars you spend everynight into some bonds? 7 years from the day you buy that 50 dollar bond you WIN!! Not to mention how many people mis-clicked and did end up losing a bunch of money.


on a side note, i'm glad it's the republican's fault:P America does need better standards, this might not have been the best place to start....but another 110 democrats thought it was aswell. Without them it never would have passed.


Jock, what are u on about? Equating bonds to online poker? You think all bonds are fail safe? I could make the argument that some bonds are much more risky than a good poker player wagering a few bucks online.

Go to a casino? What about the people who live nowhere near a casino...the closest casino to me is 400 miles away!

You're missing the point I believe. What gives you, or anybody the right for that matter, to decide how and where I spend my hard-earned money? Don't you think that it would be much more beneficial to our country if the government could find a way to tax online poker, rather than banishing it altogether? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe online poker is about a $3 billion dollar a year industry in the US, what kind of revenue do you think the system is missing out on by choosing the path that has been chosen?

The funniest part is that they try to pass it off as a moral issue, it should be nicknamed the casino lobby bill. If they want a real 'moral' issue to rile the masses up about, why don't they talk about the 100 thousand plus kids they have over in Iraq dying for no cause?

I'm getting so incredibly sick of this administration forcing its 'Christian values' into my daily life....I can't wait 'til November.

[Jacx]

oh and another point...those that do play via net and also sometimes in a casino...is it just me, or do u not spend X amount MORE at a casino than u would on the net...i know i do, when ur there ur buzzing, less so at home so u play far more safe.

[Beli]

oh and another point...those that do play via net and also sometimes in a casino...is it just me, or do u not spend X amount MORE at a casino than u would on the net...i know i do, when ur there ur buzzing, less so at home so u play far more safe.
the free drinks in the casino's help too!

[DnD]

Yeah, Canada would never pass any ridiculous laws...


http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/international/canada/

pmsl!

ive only seen the percentage of canadian content and french sign law in Quebec really enforced. and i think its the FLQ that enforces the enfrancais sign thing anyway, and theyre just crazy:S

edit: the clearing snow off your sidewalk law is real also, but you ought to do that anyway.


and one question.....do you americans have to pay taxes on the money you win from online sites? or does anybody know if the companies pay taxes to the american government?

[GankOne]

pmsl!

ive only seen the percentage of canadian content and french sign law in Quebec really enforced. and i think its the FLQ that enforces the enfrancais sign thing anyway, and theyre just crazy:S

edit: the clearing snow off your sidewalk law is real also, but you ought to do that anyway.


and one question.....do you americans have to pay taxes on the money you win from online sites? or does anybody know if the companies pay taxes to the american government?


Ideally, we are supposed to pay taxes on any gambling winnings, but online sites don't report the income to any government agency, so I've never heard of anyone paying taxes on their winnings... and no, none of the poker sites pay any taxes to our givernment.

[Jacx]

most sites are offshore, hence no tax...thats part of the reason of this new law...if they cannot have their cut, then no fucker can.

[DnD]

Ideally, we are supposed to pay taxes on any gambling winnings, but online sites don't report the income to any government agency, so I've never heard of anyone paying taxes on their winnings... and no, none of the poker sites pay any taxes to our givernment.


well thats clearly the issue then. by "American Values" they mean the value of the taxes they could be raking in. :S

[Maija]

oh and another point...those that do play via net and also sometimes in a casino...is it just me, or do u not spend X amount MORE at a casino than u would on the net...i know i do, when ur there ur buzzing, less so at home so u play far more safe.


Good point Jacx. I probably spend $20 - 50 A WEEK playing low limit $5 SNGs online...just for fun and practice. When I go to casinos, the minimum buy-in is $200 for a 1/2 table or at least $60 for an SNG.

Online poker is affordable and convenient. If the government wants it's cut....then by all means tax it. I have no problems with that, just don't try to fly the flag of "we're saving American values"

[Jacx]

they cannot get a cut becuase of the offshore issues, hence a lot of casinos are brit registered becuase its allowed there and not here

[TJ60]

i don't give a rats ass where u spend ur money. If you want to gamble all the money you have and end with barely enough to get groceries thats your choice. I don't want to see you bitching about the government not giving u benefits because your broke either. Maija you can't say the money i invest into a car makes it worth less. Have you looked in auto trader or another car sales book? If you invest your money in the right vehicles you can double your money easy. An 1970 nova sold brand new for 2800 dollars....u can't find a decent one under 9,000 dollars now.


Gank? since when did US savings bonds become a risk? And YES i do find it would be more beneficial if they found a way to get their taxes from it and use it to help the homeless or education. So then if thats the case then your gambling companies your supporting need to pony up and start paying taxes.

K.S. the reason i didn't include lottery and the stock market is because those ARE more of an risk of losing ur money then a game of texas hold 'em.


Yet, according to the majority of voting Republicans, I participate in something soo heinous, that Rep. Bob Goodlatte claimed it "is a scourge on our society."

I would have never mentioned the republican party if it wasn't for the blantant cheap shot trying to blame them for it.

[DnD]

they cannot get a cut becuase of the offshore issues, hence a lot of casinos are brit registered becuase its allowed there and not here

if they can force american banks to stop honouring money transactions from certain sites and agencies, then they can also force them to appropriate a percentage of those transactions.

[GankOne]

i don't give a rats ass where u spend ur money. If you want to gamble all the money you have and end with barely enough to get groceries thats your choice. I don't want to see you bitching about the government not giving u benefits because your broke either. Maija you can't say the money i invest into a car makes it worth less. Have you looked in auto trader or another car sales book? If you invest your money in the right vehicles you can double your money easy. An 1970 nova sold brand new for 2800 dollars....u can't find a decent one under 9,000 dollars now.


Gank? since when did US savings bonds become a risk? And YES i do find it would be more beneficial if they found a way to get their taxes from it and use it to help the homeless or education. So then if thats the case then your gambling companies your supporting need to pony up and start paying taxes.

K.S. the reason i didn't include lottery and the stock market is because those ARE more of an risk of losing ur money then a game of texas hold 'em.




I would have never mentioned the republican party if it wasn't for the blantant cheap shot trying to blame them for it.


Well, if there are people out there going broke playing online poker, they've got larger issues than being able to gamble online or not. That's the exception, not the norm. I've known several people, including myself, that have won a lot of money online. I've never known anyone that was put in the poorhouse because of it.

By that logic, pharmaceuticals should be outlawed, how many people have you seen addicted to pain pills, or tranquilizers? Maybe the government should tell us that we have to stop drinking alcohol, or outlaw saturated fats...I know, it sounds pretty ludicrous, but those are two substances that are the leading causes of death in the U.S. Point being, just because a small percentage of people misuse, or abuse something, doesn't mean it should be made illegal for everyone.

I wouldn't mind paying taxes on my online winnings one little bit, and I'm sure they can come up with a way to regulate and tax it. This bill has nothing to do with 'American values', it, just like everything else, was signed for political gain, at the expense of many, many, many taxpaying citizens.

And jock, you didn't specify treasury bonds. If you think bonds have no risk, go ask the people that had their 401k's tied up in bonds from Enron, MCI, Krispy Kreme, etc., see what they think of the bond market. Everything involves a little risk, but people should have the right to decide if they want to take the risks or not, we don't need the government shoving their psuedo-'christian values' down our throats.

[TJ60]

ok my bad gank i should have been specific about treasury bonds.


ok so what we have come to here is, gambling has never hurt anyone, Ypu Should be ato spend your kids college fund on black jack if you want to, this is just a plot to shove christian eithics down our throat, and the government is after us and their going to take all your rights and fun stuff away from you. I'm just surprised at the people that have blown this issue up so far, that they think everything is going to be banned. Would it really hurt to outlaw booze? I know you couldn't get rid of it all togather, it didn't work the first time. I'm going to take a shot at the dark and say drunk driving and drunk driving deaths would take a sharp drop. But i guess until you lose a close person you love, it never hurts to have a couple drinks and drive home right? I'm not saying your not capable of being responsable, actually i feel you and majia capable of being to keep it under control....but how is it that u feel that your the majority? Jacx is a good guy...but he admits he can't keep his shirt on in a casino.

[the squid of despair]

....but how is it that u feel that your the majority?


Beutiful point.

[Maija]

i don't give a rats ass where u spend ur money. If you want to gamble all the money you have and end with barely enough to get groceries thats your choice. I don't want to see you bitching about the government not giving u benefits because your broke either.

You've solidified my point Jock. Neither you or the government should care about how I spend my money (which is taxed BTW). If you don't give a rat's ass, then why would you support this bill? You've just nullified your entire argument right there.



Maija you can't say the money i invest into a car makes it worth less. Have you looked in auto trader or another car sales book? If you invest your money in the right vehicles you can double your money easy. An 1970 nova sold brand new for 2800 dollars....u can't find a decent one under 9,000 dollars now.


Gank? since when did US savings bonds become a risk? And YES i do find it would be more beneficial if they found a way to get their taxes from it and use it to help the homeless or education. So then if thats the case then your gambling companies your supporting need to pony up and start paying taxes.

K.S. the reason i didn't include lottery and the stock market is because those ARE more of an risk of losing ur money then a game of texas hold 'em.




I would have never mentioned the republican party if it wasn't for the blantant cheap shot trying to blame them for it.



I equally listed the number of Republicans AND Democrats who passed this ridiculous Bill. The quote I listed because I found it particullary offensive. I can't help it if it was a Republican who said it. Would you prefer we talk about Republican pedophile Mark Foley instead?

[Furyous]

On Tuesday, 201 Republicans, and 115 Democrats

Alright, lets put this Republicans vs Democrats issue to bed here. I don't happen to agree with a lot of bills passed by Democrats. Make your voice heard in the voting booth. Your party didn't get it done for the last 6 years, you only have yourselves to blame. Don't like it? Vote, encourage your like minded friends to do the same. Remember, this is not a "Republican bill". Stop playing partisan politics fed to you by the media. Look up at the red, bold writing. People from both parties voted for this bill. The fact that it was attached to another bill dealing with different issues may have played a role as to the voting on this bill as well. Either way, it's done. Evil Republicans, and saintly Democrats BOTH voted for this bill. Stop the ridiculous finger pointing, read the facts that you supplied us with, and get over it.

BTW, I noticed good ol Harry Reid's name didn't appear on the list of nays. Wierd, a Democrat from Vegas who didn't try to stop the bill? You think there might be more powerful forces behind this bill? hmmmm.....

[So Warped]

Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams, and frays the fabric of society. Congress has grappled with this issue for 10 years, and during that time we’ve watched this shadow industry explode


betting with a credit card can undercut a player’s perception of the value of cash, leading to possible addiction and, in turn, to bankruptcy, crime, and suicide. Young people, the most computer-savvy, are particularly at risk. Numerous articles have documented the harms to youths

The reason the religious community – from Baptists and Methodists to Muslims – has rallied to this cause is because it is concerned for the unity of the American family. Internet gambling is not a subject touched upon in the Old or New Testament or the Koran. But the pastoral function is one of dealing with families in difficulty and religious leaders of all denominations and faiths are seeing gambling problems erode family values.Crack cocaine for gamblers. ‘There are no needle marks,’ he says. ‘There is no alcohol on the breath. You just click the mouse and lose your house


Gawwwd Bless the good ol' United States of Americayyy http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4024/usa26mo.gif

[Buckledmac]

- Not necessary. -

[Kloaked Spirit]

ok my bad gank i should have been specific about treasury bonds.

In this case you should have. The distinction here is critical. Many forms of risk which are equivilant (or worse) to gambling online are perfectly legal to do online. That's just blatent hypocrisy within the bill.

Oh, and since it's mentioned a few times in the thread, I'd like for you all to know that you are supposed to report winnings on your taxes. Most people (illegally) don't because it's an unnoticable amount. If you were to win a more substantial amount, you need to fill out your winnings and hopefully provide documentation when you send in a Schedule C. Most people that do this for a living will claim themselves as a professional and file taxes accordingly, and many popular poker/casino forums will always talk in great detail about paying taxes when tax time rolls around.

The fact that it was attached to another bill dealing with different issues may have played a role as to the voting on this bill as well. Either way, it's done.

In this case, it played a huge role. The bill couldn't stand on it's own so Frist attached it to a security bill that was certain to pass. Hence why the republicans are getting the "I am evil!" role from this despite the fact that Democrats also voted on the bill.

Ever spoken to the people you and your mates win a lot of money off?

That money dosent magically appear somebody just lost it

In quite a few cases, the money does magically appear. Many places give away money for you to play there. Some give you money just for signing up (King Solomon, most of the Cryptologic places,) and others give you money if you come back and play a few hands (Absolute, Party Poker, Cryptologic.) Many places even give you bonus money on top of the money you deposited just to play.

I'm sure this is not the case for the majority of people who lose money, but this is also an industry where the majority of people acknowledge and understand that they are very likely to lose the money they set aside for entertainment.

[Buckledmac]

transfer your $50 per week into my account maija and i'll bet for you mate (Y)

[the squid of despair]

Republican pedophile Mark Foley instead?

Pedophile?

[TJ60]

Maija...come on if i didn't alteast make an attempt to argue the point with u, this would just be another 2 page thread with everyone agreeing with u:P

[Maija]

Pedophile?

Foley resigned from Congress on September 29, 2006 as allegations surfaced that he had sent sexually explicit instant messages to Congressional pages and former pages, including some who were minors.

Alright, lets put this Republicans vs Democrats issue to bed here. I don't happen to agree with a lot of bills passed by Democrats. Make your voice heard in the voting booth. Your party didn't get it done for the last 6 years, you only have yourselves to blame. Don't like it? Vote, encourage your like minded friends to do the same. Remember, this is not a "Republican bill". Stop playing partisan politics fed to you by the media. Look up at the red, bold writing. People from both parties voted for this bill. The fact that it was attached to another bill dealing with different issues may have played a role as to the voting on this bill as well. Either way, it's done. Evil Republicans, and saintly Democrats BOTH voted for this bill. Stop the ridiculous finger pointing, read the facts that you supplied us with, and get over it.



LOL, you’re a funny little man Furyous. Directly above your rant I clearly stated that I listed BOTH the Republicans and Democrats in my post. Hell, I even THANKED the republicans who voted “Ney” against this bill. FACTS are that this bill was tacked on to the Port Bill by Republican James Leach. 85% of republicans approved this bill along with 66% Democrats.
Although I find it cute that you need to tell me to vote and read the facts, I vote every year even in non-Presidential elections, I outlined the facts clearly in my post, and as an American citizen it is my OBLIGATION to speak out when legislation is passed that I don’t agree with. What the hell do you think this country was founded on buddy? Democracy. My voice will be heard at the polls next election day.

Get over it. ;)


Finally, while most of you are probably apathetic to this subject because it doesn’t affect you, I find it incredibly interesting that when Bush signed this Bill not a single mention or commotion was raised over the Internet Gambling legislation that was tacked on. Instead, the patriotic flag of freedom was once again raised as he referred to the “war on terror.”

It is the height of irony that we debate this here…on an Internet forum….linked to a game where you deal drugs, pimp hos, and attack your enemy. It is asinine to believe that a game/place like this would not be next on the list in the “10-point American Values Agenda.” Maybe once something that you enjoy is taken from you under the guise of “American Values” that you too will feel the need to speak out, Republican or Democrat.

Thanks for listening. I appreciate everyone's opinions. I don't care what political party you are, but if you believe in something ... get out and make noise about it! Let our governmentt know that this is STILL a government for the people, BY the people. Apathy is contagious, don't let it happen to you :)


WASHINGTON - President Bush signed a bill Friday to help prevent terrorists from sneaking a nuclear, chemical or germ weapon into the United States inside one of the 11 million shipping containers that enter the nation each year -- many without inspection.

"We're going to protect our ports. We're going to defend this homeland, and we're going to win this war on terror," Bush said.

The president used the bill-signing ceremony to assert that Republicans are tough on terror, a key issue in congressional elections just less than four weeks away.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15247549/

[the squid of despair]

Foley resigned from Congress on September 29, 2006 as allegations surfaced that he had sent sexually explicit instant messages to Congressional pages and former pages, including some who were minors.


Got any proof? Or do you just believe it because it was on CNN?

[Maija]

Got any proof? Or do you just believe it because it was on CNN?


LMAO! Fight the Power Kilaho!

Here's 9 pages of proof:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586&page=1
I especially enjoyed the bit about him asking the kid to describe how he "Spanks it"


And oh yeah...Foley resigned. Guess he wouldn't have done that if the allegations were false.

[the squid of despair]

LMAO! Fight the Power Kilaho!

Here's 9 pages of proof:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/BrianRoss/story?id=2509586&page=1
I especially enjoyed the bit about him asking the kid to describe how he "Spanks it"


And oh yeah...Foley resigned. Guess he wouldn't have done that if the allegations were false.


That was pretty hot but I really don't see it as proof because some guy says so... Again hawt though.

Just because someone resigns, doesn't make them guilty.

[Maija]

That was pretty hot but I really don't see it as proof because some guy says so... Again hawt though.

Just because someone resigns, doesn't make them guilty.



The sky is blue!

*waits for Killaho to say "Where's your proof? How can you tell the sky is blue? Is it blue or aqua, hunh? did you ever think of that? It could be red. How do you know it is not red? Just because you look at it?"*

(f) :P (f)

[DnD]

The sky is blue!

*waits for Killaho to say "Where's your proof? How can you tell the sky is blue? Is it blue or aqua, hunh? did you ever think of that? It could be red. How do you know it is not red? Just because you look at it?"*

(f) :P (f)

the sky is actually transparent and colourless, the blue colour is produced by the refraction of light, or someshit.....but i dont have any proof :dunno:

[the squid of despair]

The sky is blue!

*waits for Killaho to say "Where's your proof? How can you tell the sky is blue? Is it blue or aqua, hunh? did you ever think of that? It could be red. How do you know it is not red? Just because you look at it?"*

(f) :P (f)

:thefunny:

You're right from now on I will not question anything. I will take everything that a 21 year old guy says, about something 6 years ago, as fact because he sent me a instant messenger log.

[Maija]

:thefunny:

You're right from now on I will not question anything. I will take everything that a 21 year old guy says, about something 6 years ago, as fact because he sent me a instant messenger log.

MULTIPLE congressional pages came forward. Foley apologized publically and resigned.

Ockham's razor.

But you keep fighting the good fight for the pedophiles Killa! *mwa*

[odd th0mas]

blah, blah, blah...

I'll give ya best rep ever if ya bring back Dolly(the sheep)! ;)

[Maija]

blah blah blah...this is a forum.....blah blah blah...this is where people come to talk....blah blah blah ...even have discussions sometimes about serious matters...blah blah blah...you don't have to read it...blah blah blah....or you could add some constructive input.....blah blah blah......or we could all stop posting and talking....blah blah blah .....or you could post to hear yourself talk....blah blah blah....blah blah blah blah blah blah

[odd th0mas]

i see the light!

blah blah blah

he can't get too far away from you!

bla bla bla

[Maija]

LOL, amusing. But Dolly's here, and he misses your arguments with spermcroaker.

[odd th0mas]

i blah blah'd ya cause i wanted you to know question was directed at you and had nothing to do with the thread. hijacking, if you will. i jus didn't wanna start new thread 4 petty question, sorry. my bad! :-#

[Maija]

OK, lol. Just PM me next time...I thought you were taking a shot...

Well...that's enough blah blah blah from Maija today. Y'all can have some peace and quiet now :-#

[odd th0mas]

lol

...and yeah, me and the spermkroaker are as tite as ever!

[So Warped]

One day the USA will be a free country again and people like Killaho will be sent back to where they belong...the UK.