School Violence --- An extreme solution?

[Quaker]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/13/defending.the.classroom.ap/index.html"][/

Anyone else think this is a bit extreme? If it were just teachers being 'trained' to do such a thing I doubt I would have minded since they're the adults in the situation and are responsible for the wellbeing of everyone (even if its not directly the job the signed up for so to speak).

Maybe I just don't want to admit to myself that the world has become such a rotten place that we need to train little timmy to know when to put down his play-doh and grab his number 2 to defend his life.

[hoos]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/13/defending.the.classroom.ap/index.html"][/

Anyone else think this is a bit extreme? If it were just teachers being 'trained' to do such a thing I doubt I would have minded since they're the adults in the situation and are responsible for the wellbeing of everyone (even if its not directly the job the signed up for so to speak).

Maybe I just don't want to admit to myself that the world has become such a rotten place that we need to train little timmy to know when to put down his play-doh and grab his number 2 to defend his life.

I think it's a hell of an idea except you shouldn't be telling elementary school kids this, and possibly not even middle schoolers. I feel most things have come in a high school setting (the Amish being the exception) and would be overkill to teach the younger kids.

The idea is very good. You walk into a classroom and it's 26 v 1. Now I know, the one has a gun, but if he was going to shoot ppl in the room, you might as well not take it laying down. Throw a book at his head first. Now as I'm writing, this looks like hero training, rather than an intrusion drill, but I def. don't think it is a bad idea.

[Davecat]

I agree totally with this - the problem comes when you encounter situations as follows :-

Man with gun walks into classroom, not of sound mind - in reality not likely to harm anyone - gets rushed by teacher OR teacher + kids, panics and starts shooting, in that event it can be argued that the actions of the children/ teacher were the cause, or at least helped inflame the situation...

On the other hand - you run the risk of compiance... lying down and getting shot.

this is a difficult case to argue...

[the squid of despair]

I think it's a much better idea than this one...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,218067,00.html

If the kid had an assault riffle then he could mow down kids 2 at a time as they came at him. A 7.62 bullet shatters cinder blocks and keeps going, so a few kids are definatly going down.

[Colonel Sanders]

I don't think it's neccesary to actively tell children if there is a gunman rush him. Thats just asking for trouble, and possibly more casualties when there might have been none. But then a gunman walks into a classroom and baracades himself you pretty much know he is there to kill some people.

I think it should just be on instinct. Highschoolers especially. I don't know about the others in the class but if a gunman comes into a classroom and looks like hes gonna be shotting the place up I will rush him, and hopefully alot of the other male students along side. I'd rather die trying than being executed. Could even prevent deaths.

But yeah I think telling elementary school kids to "rush" a gunman is stupid for the most part.

[Davecat]

missin the point there tho - If one kid rushs him on 'instinct'... and fails, the gunman would be more likely to kill and harm the others that did not. same as the old - train the teacher to do it part. One teacher 'may' be able to stop a gunman - on the other hand they may not - a classroom full of people/children almost definately would be able to overwhelm any single attacker.

In that situation it is EVERYONE in the room at risk - why oh why not use all the tools to save themselves they have available ?

[the squid of despair]

missin the point there tho - If one kid rushs him on 'instinct'... and fails, the gunman would be more likely to kill and harm the others that did not. same as the old - train the teacher to do it part. One teacher 'may' be able to stop a gunman - on the other hand they may not - a classroom full of people/children almost definately would be able to overwhelm any single attacker.

In that situation it is EVERYONE in the room at risk - why oh why not use all the tools to save themselves they have available ?

Everyone is not likely to be willing to participate. I'm sure more would forget their training or instructions. It would be pretty tough for an entire class to stand up from their desks and all rush a gunman at the same time. I'm sure after the first shot, half of the would be heros would be sitting back down.

[Davecat]

All this talk about hero training... this is not what they are encouraging.. they are trying to teach pupils in a school how to deal with a situation...
the problem is that by the time the people involved know wether the situation justifies the risks it will be too late to be effective.

[the squid of despair]

All this talk about hero training... .

Yeah, that's what you are arguing for... You are saying that kids should be trained to deal with a threat, correct me if I'm wrong.

[KoRn]

Christ only in America. Solve violence with more violence, yeah great idea.......... morons.

[the squid of despair]

Christ only in America. Solve violence with more violence, yeah great idea.......... morons.


Says Wraith...

So maybe they should start playing Barry Mannilow on the load speakers and burn some aroma therapy candles? Maybe that would work...

[KoRn]

Here's an idea, TOUGHEN UP GUN LAWS. Why on earth do these guys have friggin automatic/semi-automatic rifles in the first place?

Ohh, ohh I know, strap combat shotguns to the bottom of each desk in the class rooms, why stop at just training the kids to attack, give em all guns!

[the squid of despair]

Automobiles kill far more kids than guns, should we toughen up those laws too?

[KoRn]

Yes actually you should, I've spent time in the states and from what I saw there were no road rules whatsoever. Anyway, people need cars in their everyday life, there is absolutely no need for a citizen to have a firearm.

[the squid of despair]

Yes actually you should, I've spent time in the states and from what I saw there were no road rules whatsoever. Anyway, people need cars in their everyday life, there is absolutely no need for a citizen to have a firearm.


Your right, there's no traffic laws here, we can do anything we want. People don't need automobiles for everyday life, it's just a comfort. People choose to own, drive, and "Need" a vehicle. People functioned without cars for years. You just feel better analyzing Americas problems, instead of your own countries.

[KoRn]

Your right, there's no traffic laws here, we can do anything we want. People don't need automobiles for everyday life, it's just a comfort. People choose to own, drive, and "Need" a vehicle. People functioned without cars for years. You just feel better analyzing Americas problems, instead of your own countries.
We don't have problems in Australia, sorry we're perfect. Prove me wrong.

[DnD]

We don't have problems in Australia, sorry we're perfect. Prove me wrong.

the water in your toilet spins incorrectly. so ha!

[DnD]

and i personally disagree with this 'hero training', i think it will cause more deaths in such a scenario then prevent them, but untill somebody has tested it, its all speculation.

i think we could employ as many saftey measures in our schools and classrooms as we like, metal detectors, security guards, etc, but if somebody really wants to hurt people, they will just goto the mall or something else instead. even if we ban guns, someone could just use bombs or knives and be just as effective. I would assume somebody whos out for blood is fairly ambitious about it to begin with.

either way, its just a quick fix to a problem and not a real solution. maybe the money would be better spent invested into counselling for troubled youths or help for the mentally ill?

[Loopus]

Tougher gun laws means that law abiding citizens are less likely to have guns. The criminals who don't get their guns legally are still going to have them. Besides even though fully automaitic guns are illegal (or at least were) plenty of people still had them. If you look at the states where there is less gun control, there is actually less gun crime.

[Spacecowboy]

tougher gun laws wount help every 1 here in the us knows how to make modified weapons and explosives we just dont know how to spell ...

but some thing has to give and i not saying there going the right way
i think they should have metal dector's that control the doors by locking the doors when they get set off so they cant get in in the first place. i know it sound dumb but look here this is just this year
DENVER — A bearded drifter walks into a Colorado school and fatally shoots a student before taking his own life. Wisconsin authorities charge three boys with plotting a bomb attack on their high school and, two weeks later, a student in a rural school allegedly shoots his principal. A gunman bursts into a Vermont elementary school looking for his ex-girlfriend and guns down a teacher.

All of this in the past month alone.


and all this hate for the us is dumb most of dont like our presedent and our other politions but when it comes to voting time we have no 1 good to vot for and then there is that issue with fales vote but im getting off topic.... my bad if u dont like us dont come here ever again fucktard's

[Buckledmac]

tougher gun laws wount help every 1 here in the us knows how to make modified weapons and explosives we just dont know how to spell ...

but some thing has to give and i not saying there going the right way
i think they should have metal dector's that control the doors so they cant get in in the first place. i know it sound dumb but look here this is just this year
DENVER — A bearded drifter walks into a Colorado school and fatally shoots a student before taking his own life. Wisconsin authorities charge three boys with plotting a bomb attack on their high school and, two weeks later, a student in a rural school allegedly shoots his principal. A gunman bursts into a Vermont elementary school looking for his ex-girlfriend and guns down a teacher.

All of this in the past month alone.


and all this hate for the us is dumb most of dont like our presedent and our other politions but when it comes to voting time we have no 1 good to vot for and then there is that issue with fales vote but im getting off topic.... my bad if u dont like us dont come here ever again fucktard's


interesting post cowboy and you've taught me something i didnt know

i already thought that every school in the US had metal detectors installed, not sure where i got this impression, prolly the movies i expect

you know mexican/black/cuban goes through detector and is stopped in possession of knife or gun etc is a sterotypical movie senario.

if might help the problem though right ? (i cant say dont know schools in US)

[Loopus]

Not only do most schools not have them, that would be prohibitivly expensive for most districts. My solution... Every parent that owns a gun should own a gun safe... and use it. And its not just the US, some screwball just shot up a college in Montreal about a month or so ago. In addition all guns must be registered. The problem is that there are too many illegal guns... maybe some sort of tracking chip like "lojac"? that way when the dealers claim a gun is "stolen" the cops can track it. That way, responsible gun owners might catch a bit less grief. And it would be a great way of knowing what the nutjob might have with them (an arsenal or 1 pistol?) If we put the expense on the gun manufacturer, I think even the NRA would support that.

[Spacecowboy]

good point i did not think that i had a solution because i know for such a big problem the need to be a big solution which means spending money but i know they will never do it every year they make budget cuts to the schools. you cant stop it from happening but there has to be a way to make it happen less. there are to many points to argue but some thing should be done but will any thing senseable be done probably not because thats the way our shitty goverment works.

[Mikey:)]

So some kids walk into a school armed with sub machine guns and the rest of the kids rush at them... how many kids do you think will still be up for that idea after seeing little timmys head explode in front of them? Its important to teach kids to stand up for themselves but it is equally important to teach kids to express themselves then maybe they wouldnt get to the point where they feel they need to massacre their peers and kill themselves.

[Spacecowboy]

So some kids walk into a school armed with sub machine guns and the rest of the kids rush at them... how many kids do you think will still be up for that idea after seeing little timmys head explode in front of them? Its important to teach kids to stand up for themselves but it is equally important to teach kids to express themselves then maybe they wouldnt get to the point where they feel they need to massacre their peers and kill themselves.
good point but will the goverment spend more money on our schools to prevent this from happening probable not we need more money in the school's but they wont give it to the so we will just keep robbing our kids of a decent life, so many kids are getting left behind because there is not enough teachers so they get frustrated and quit and slip in to depression and other break downs . ok now im just rambling but i just get so pissed about our goverment


Not only do most schools not have them, that would be prohibitivly expensive for most districts. My solution... Every parent that owns a gun should own a gun safe... and use it. And its not just the US, some screwball just shot up a college in Montreal about a month or so ago. In addition all guns must be registered. The problem is that there are too many illegal guns... maybe some sort of tracking chip like "lojac"? that way when the dealers claim a gun is "stolen" the cops can track it. That way, responsible gun owners might catch a bit less grief. And it would be a great way of knowing what the nutjob might have with them (an arsenal or 1 pistol?) If we put the expense on the gun manufacturer, I think even the NRA would support that.

they will figure out away to remove the chip every thing we do to stop them will just be a small delay they will figure it out what we need to do show them other ways to deal with anger and emotions, to have a safe person who wont judge them available at any time to talk, and better counciling for all students, weather they have been in trouble or not. there should also be better security at schools, because even low budget schools can lock all the doors from the outside, and i am sure many parents, who already volunteer in classrooms, would be willing to do door-duty, monitoring who can and cannot enter. there are so many problems, and as fast as we solve one problem, another is going to pop up, and i am afraid that we have pretty much quit trying to fight the problems, and just hope they will go away on their own.