My idea concerning credits

[Deadwood]

I had a bit of an idea concerning credits.

Since begining my degree course in economics, at Manchester University (UK) iv been learning a lot about supply and demand and also types of intervention in the economy.

Now if we viewed the black market in DopeWars at the economy we can clearly see there is a demand for creds for all players and a supply from the sellers out there.

However, my idea consists of bringing in a type of intervention, basically what we call a 'price floor'.

A price floor could be introduced where, for example in the first 2 weeks creds cant be sold below $400, then for the third week creds cant be sold below $300 and then in the final week the normal $100 price floor could apply. Obviously these price floors can be changed to suit the game better and so it doesnt hurt junkie players and boost cred sellers for example.

Why do i think this is a good idea?

Well, it doesnt change the game at all, it wont affect cred sellers in such a way that their scores will beat those of junkies, machinests and gunners round in round out and more importantly it would put what i view as an almost complete stop to SLAVING. People wouldnt be able to put $100 creds on anytime in the first 3 weeks for example.

Its just an idea, i dont know what everyone else thinks, but if you post your ideas here we could have a small discussion about it.

Hope i dont get flamed too much.
:hidey:
-Deadwood.

[CrayZii-InDiaN]

sounds alrite...

looks like your subject had paid u off in a good way lolz.. making you think about dopewars :P

[Taste of Britain]

here we go :ice:

[Deadwood]

Well i think im on to something, but i guess it depends what the higher powers think.

[Puppy Dogs and Ice Cream]

problem is they dont think

[Uganja]

I can't see a fault in that as an idea. Seriously, why had no one thought of it sooner...

[the squid of despair]

I think people should be allowed to crash the market if they please.

[Deadwood]

I can't see a fault in that as an idea. Seriously, why had no one thought of it sooner...

thanks mate :)

[Deadwood]

I think people should be allowed to crash the market if they please.

Why? How does that do the game any good?

Junkie players and cred players can compete more evenly on a market that doesnt crash.

Plus this would solve the slaving issue which is a plus in my opinion.

[DnD]

so let me get this straight? the game will calculate the prices of your drugs automatically based on the # of credits currently on the market, and the amount sold in the last 24 hours or so?

[Uganja]

Put the joint down Cam......


....put the joint down :|

[nfc]

If the market prices are artificially held at a steady price throughout the game then sellers are pretty much guarenteed a fair score. Where's the risk in that? It is supposed to be a Trading market. Plus if there is a set floor price each week every crasher will bring the price down to that floor, so you would still end up with a 'crashed market' only several million creds on at the lowest price possible.

[Uganja]

Surely that depends on where the boundries are set nfc?

Theres still a massive element of risk involved. Especially when timing of selling is concerned

[DnD]

let me reitterate. Deadwood's idea is for the game to calculate the selling price of your credits based on supply and demand? ie the number of credits on the market, and the # of credits that had been sold in a previous amount of time?

is this the jist of it?

[Calienta]

Thought it was based on what week into the round you're in?

[DnD]

Thought it was based on what week into the round you're in?

ok if thats the idea, it would be silly, then the credit prices would all be the same in each room, regardless of the # of sellers or worthers

[Wutty]

i think its a good idea "in theory" but sometimes its a cartel strategy to crash the market when they have a large amount of junkie - cred sellers. Its a part of the game and although it can occasionally lead to slaving, the admins can tell whos slaving and who isnt.

[DnD]

i think if it was like how i originally thought and posted about, where the game automatically calculated credit prices based on supply and demand, it would allow cartels to coordinate crashing of the market, but would still prohibit slaving.

[Calienta]

the admins can tell whos slaving and who isnt.

That's true, but the players can go the entire round slaving, thus destroying any other cartel's opportunity at doing well in that room. So what if the slavers get deleted when the scores go up?

[Bellows]

i had a similiar thought yesterday, what if you could only sell at +/- $200 of the current market price, market can still be crashed but slavings almost imposible

[Deadwood]

i had a similiar thought yesterday, what if you could only sell at +/- $200 of the current market price, market can still be crashed but slavings almost imposible

Again, another good idea, i think that something should be bought in to make slaving very hard if not impossible but at the same time not to alter te mechanics of the game and the strats out there.

[steff]

I suggested that Bellows in the staff section...

What you need to do is implement a new piece of code that means you can't undercut or sell more than for example, $100 than the current selling price. It'll be HARDER though not impossible to slave that way.

No additional code is necessary Steff.

That was the only response that was directed at my comment.

[Diogee old]

I suggested that Bellows in the staff section...





That was the only response that was directed at my comment.

they like cheaters :P

[steff]

They are cheaters. :ph34r:

[Richard Cranium]

The market should be set up like a real time ticker and you set the hi-low as to the sell price, so if you wanna sell at 100.00 then your creds would be in limbo until the market hits 100.00 a credit, this would put an end to the slaving. If done in addition to the floor concept, it would even out the market.

[Boycey]

good idea, but it will alter the way the game is played too much

i already wasted my 1st round learning to play a good strat
dont wanna waste this 1 cos the markets changed

[Deadwood]

good idea, but it will alter the way the game is played too much

i already wasted my 1st round learning to play a good strat
dont wanna waste this 1 cos the markets changed

Get out of my thread noob. lmao

[KoRn]

The problem I see with this is that from what I understand it's perfectly legal to supply your own cartel with cheap creds provided they're actually using them, not re-selling.

[Buzzin]

You cant take away slaving, reds wouldnt medal anymore!!

[Boycey]

Get out of my thread noob. lmao

comin from the person whos thought up an idea to alter the game just so he can sell his creds

go home

[Deadwood]

comin from the person whos thought up an idea to alter the game just so he can sell his creds

go home

From what you said it seems like you are perhaps playing your second round. Now i've played for almost 2 years and so have many others who have experienced the game in a way to comment here and do so based on experience.

Call me sad for playing for almost 2 years, but my point is that someone who hasnt been playing for long cannot possibly have anything useful to say on the mechnics of the game as you do not know them as well as those who have been playing for much longer.

No offense meant to you.

[Boycey]

well ya shoulda said that the 1st time

[Deadwood]

well ya shoulda said that the 1st time

I should have said what?

[Boycey]

From what you said it seems like you are perhaps playing your second round. Now i've played for almost 2 years and so have many others who have experienced the game in a way to comment here and do so based on experience.

Call me sad for playing for almost 2 years, but my point is that someone who hasnt been playing for long cannot possibly have anything useful to say on the mechnics of the game as you do not know them as well as those who have been playing for much longer.

No offense meant to you.

^^^^^

[Timoteo32]

While I hate to shoot anyone down for suggesting an idea, not all of these are good. Seems like I've had some worse, but we won't go into that now.:P

I also haven't been playing for two years, but here's what i got:

First of all, when you get to the next chapter in Economics if your teacher is worth a shit, they'll tell you why price floors are a bad idea. It ends up in market inefficiencies, there's a big formula, yada yada.

Second, I disagree with the people who think you should only be able to lower the market by a little bit. Gives way too much power to the sellers cause the market wouldn't move fast enough to force them to adjust. When the market drops out, they have no idea how many people are between their credits and the ones for sale. If you can only lower it by 100, too many people have to list creds to move the market quickly. Encourages oligopoly behavior. Ask the econ guy ;)

The problem isn't crashed markets. It's credit slaving. I still maintain the best way to end it is further randomization of when the credits get listed so you have less control over who gets them. It sucks for the sellers if their credits might not go on for 12 hours but it'd take a lot more luck for the right buyer to get on when the right credits come for sale. A few million credits get bought $400 below market price by someone NOT in their cartel and I think it'll all kinda fade out.

And Deadwood thought HE was gonna get flamed :|

[Phuquit]

The problem I see with this is that from what I understand it's perfectly legal to supply your own cartel with cheap creds provided they're actually using them, not re-selling.
If they're sacrificing their own worth to boost the worth of other players, they're slaving.
However, even a cursory inspection of the DW medal tabul (http://forum.oddthought.com/forumdisplay.php?f=164) clearly shows that people who benefit form it don't get deleted for doing it, and that medals "earned" that way are allowed to stand.

[Buckledmac]

If they're sacrificing their own worth to boost the worth of other players, they're slaving.
However, even a cursory inspection of the DW medal tabul (http://forum.oddthought.com/forumdisplay.php?f=164) clearly shows that people who benefit form it don't get deleted for doing it, and that medals "earned" that way are allowed to stand.


explain yourself further phu

[Phuquit]

Explain myself?
Who the fuck do you think you are?

meh...

Let's say I'm putting together a cartel for B games. I recruit 50-60 people, and I get most of them to do a labless junkie strat. What I need to get a gold is 2 or 3 sellers who know what they're doing, and 7-10 sheep who will pump out underpriced pimp creds all month.
The sheep sellers won't be worth jack shit at the end of the round. Their only purpose is to ensure that my junkie player score well and avoid gunners, plus they screw up the chances of legitimate sellers playing for other cartels, because they are devaluing pimp creds. They do not stand a chance of making the final cartel. They are only playing for the "bragging rights" of putting my cartel logo in their signature. So what if they're only going to be worth $80 mill? The cartel is going to medal... w00t.

Meanwhile, my competent sellers can exploit the market however they like, because they have the foreknowldege of what is going to happen.
So - my junkie players get higher scores than other junkie players, and my competent sellers still score really well, and my cartel gets its medal...
And best of all, nobody gets deleted, despite the fact that my sheep have directly sacrificed their own worth to boost the scores of those players in my medal cartel.

[nfc]

But that's cheating and would not be allowed

[Buckledmac]

hmmm interesting concept phu, dont think it'll catch on though

[Deadwood]

While I hate to shoot anyone down for suggesting an idea, not all of these are good. Seems like I've had some worse, but we won't go into that now.:P

I also haven't been playing for two years, but here's what i got:

First of all, when you get to the next chapter in Economics if your teacher is worth a shit, they'll tell you why price floors are a bad idea. It ends up in market inefficiencies, there's a big formula, yada yada.

Second, I disagree with the people who think you should only be able to lower the market by a little bit. Gives way too much power to the sellers cause the market wouldn't move fast enough to force them to adjust. When the market drops out, they have no idea how many people are between their credits and the ones for sale. If you can only lower it by 100, too many people have to list creds to move the market quickly. Encourages oligopoly behavior. Ask the econ guy ;)

The problem isn't crashed markets. It's credit slaving. I still maintain the best way to end it is further randomization of when the credits get listed so you have less control over who gets them. It sucks for the sellers if their credits might not go on for 12 hours but it'd take a lot more luck for the right buyer to get on when the right credits come for sale. A few million credits get bought $400 below market price by someone NOT in their cartel and I think it'll all kinda fade out.

And Deadwood thought HE was gonna get flamed :|

Price floors are a bad idea for the consumer but protect the supplier. Theres an equilibrium price for supply and demand - price floors may be above the equilibrium price which is what we dont want. If this was the case there wud just be an abundance of creds above the fixed price floor and nobody willing to buy them. What we would need is for the price floor to be below the equilibrium price so that the players are buying pretty much all the creds that appear on the market.

I know my stuff mate, dont you worry. :P

[Timoteo32]

Ah, but price floor hurt the sellers too, depending on how your demand and supply curves are slanted. For example, if the floor is at $500 all the people that would sell at $400, can't. There's not going to be as much demand for credits at $500 so some sellers lose out on business because of the price floor. In real life this hurts the large volume low cost producers, hard to say if it would do the same on here but the theory should still hold to some extent even though we can all produce credits for the same cost.

[Timoteo32]

Oh and Phu, i totally get what you're saying. I know it's part of the game but I think it's dumb that people run cartels with 50 people anyway and just pick the best ones even if they aren't cheating. Seems like it should be about who can get the best 20 people from day one and let the chips fall where they may.

[Deadwood]

Ah, but price floor hurt the sellers too, depending on how your demand and supply curves are slanted. For example, if the floor is at $500 all the people that would sell at $400, can't. There's not going to be as much demand for credits at $500 so some sellers lose out on business because of the price floor. In real life this hurts the large volume low cost producers, hard to say if it would do the same on here but the theory should still hold to some extent even though we can all produce credits for the same cost.

Price floors protect suppliers by helping them cope with demand. A high price floor may decrease demand making it easy for the supplier to get enough goods on the market.

Anyway, whats this matter lmao.

[Timoteo32]

Actually price floors are used to keep less efficient producers in business and keep one company or group of company from flooding the market and driving the price below where their competitors compete.

And it matters cause I'm out of school now and have no outlet for intellectual discussion :P just friendly banter.

[Deadwood]

how old r u and what u doing?

[Timoteo32]

I'm 25 and currently I am between real jobs so I'm bartending and doing some construction. You?

[Deadwood]

18 at Manchester university in UK.

Studying economics for my degree.

[Timoteo32]

Nice, I love econ. Got a minor in it but majored in Business Administration.

[Alf uckem]

18 at Manchester university in UK.

Studying economics for my degree.

manc n00b:P

[tca]

if you ain't a manc, your a wank

out of a movie :P not my saying lol

[Deadwood]

if you ain't a manc, your a wank

out of a movie :P not my saying lol

Too fucking right TCA

[Timoteo32]

Seems like UK could be a cool place to visit sometime

[GankOne]

It's a good idea in theory, but I don't think it could work in DW.

The problem with a price floor is that it always creates a surplus, this would be especially true in this game. You would have all of the inexperienced sellers getting scared that their creds won't sell, the reaction would be to automatically put their creds at the "floor" thinking that the creds are guaranteed to sell. What we would have is a huge surplus of credits sitting at the floor price until the floor is reset.

The only way price floors work in an actual economy is when the government sets the floor and guarantees to buy at the floor price, if the price ever reaches the floor, thereby absorbing the surplus.

So, unless jacx or pstyle would like to get on and clear the market to equilibrium every day, this would only cause a bigger headache for sellers.

[bigdopeshoot]

Could someone please explain the basics of Credit Slaving?