Abortion

[the squid of despair]

Well I was reading an article today. It made me decide to start up a good abortion debate. Where do you stand on;

1. Abortion overall
2. This article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=412172&in_page_id=1770&in_page_id=1770&expand=true

[hoos]

I believe abortion should only be used in the case of a sexual rape or other means of forced sex where the woman (or man) did not willingly consent to the actions involving baby-making. Other than that, I believe if you think you are old enough to have sex, you are old enough to try and prevent the consequences, or deal with them when they come around. Whether that is adoption or actually keeping your own child.

Now having said that, I have a friend that has gone through an abortion. It was like the first time she had sex and she got pregnant. She didn't think that she would be a good mom (neither do most of us that know her) but she said that after going through the 9 months, she wouldn't be able to give the baby up. Kinda pulls the strings with this doesn't it? B/c I'd like to agree with her, b/c her logic makes sense, but my gut feeling doesn't agree because she just got rid of it.

So my question is, ladies, do you believe if you went through with a inconvienant pregnancy, how easy would it be for you to give your child up for adoption, after carrying it around for 9 months?

[KoRn]

I've got a great abortion video, anyone wanna see it? lmao

[for20gurl]

I could never give up a baby after carrying him/her for 9 months...for me there was already a connection with each of my children before they were even born. I could also never have an abortion. I have had one miscarriage and i still to this day wonder what that child could have been. i couldnt imagine the guilt and emotional pain of having an abortion.

but it still is not my place to judge what others can and can not do. everyone has their own set of moral standards and everyones is different. that is what separates us as people. i dont agree with abortion but whats right for me isnt always right for the next.

maybe someday they will be able to extract the fetus and keep it living in a "womb like" machine, for adoptions...the waiting lists are soooo long. I know someone that adopted her son out of guatamala and intends on adopting a girl from bermese (spelling?) simply because as a single mother she cant adopt here.

*EDIT*
sorry i just went back and read the article....

She said: "I am furious and very hurt. Imagine my horror when I discovered that my baby was incinerated in the same furnace as the hospital rubbish."


am i the only one that is really angry with ppl like this? how dare you throw your child away because you couldnt stand the thought of having to live with this hideous being for 18 yrs and now you want to cry boo hoo cause of the way they disposed of the baby after its dead?? every aspect of that article was disturbing!

[the squid of despair]

am i the only one that is really angry with ppl like this? how dare you throw your child away because you couldnt stand the thought of having to live with this hideous being for 18 yrs and now you want to cry boo hoo cause of the way they disposed of the baby after its dead?? every aspect of that article was disturbing!

No, you aren't the only one. I cannot give the "Mothers" any sympathy for the disposal of a "Their" baby after they consented to have it ripped from their womb. Clearly they didn't care about the child in the first place. I think people that choose to get an abortion should be responsible for all disposal or burial fees, assuming they care.

[Beli]

No, you aren't the only one. I cannot give the "Mothers" any sympathy for the disposal of a "Their" baby after they consented to have it ripped from their womb. Clearly they didn't care about the child in the first place. I think people that choose to get an abortion should be responsible for all disposal or burial fees, assuming they care.
damn good idea Killaho!

[Maija]

I'm really not going to get into this debate, I'll just say that I am pro-choice and leave it at that, BUT...

That lady in the article is ridiculous!!! She had an abortion and is now sad that they incinerated her baby in the trash? What did she expect? A full government-paid burial? A tiny casket? FFS....that woman is delusional.

*edit: Assuming that this was an elective abortion, not one for medical reasons or a rape-case*

[Dymond]

*WOW*

I agree with Maija. Personally I am against it now that I've had kids but I know there is situations where that abortion is better than putting a kid in a bad situation where you know the statistics will prove that kid will wind up another burden on society, either on the state welfare system or in prison. I guess my biggest issue with the pro-lifers is that they will blow up abortion clinics and kill doctors and justify that how? Honestly I think these morons could use the time wisely by spending lest time picketing abortion clinics and more time giving these mothers some real alternatives other than abortion.

[Loopus]

As an adoptee I have pretty strong feelings on the subject. That being said, I think the father needs rights too. There was a recent case before the state court in Philadelphia PA where they ruled that a wife does't need to inform her husband at all! There are also times where the father is prepared to have a child, but the mother is not, so she has an abortion. While it is true that she would be the one carrying the baby, it is BOTHof their children. Even though I am Pro - Life, there should be special considerations for rape/incest cases, and to accommodate the health of the mother. (at her discretion)

[Nickything]

(y) What Maija said. If it was a termination on medical grounds or rape then that is a different matter entirely. if you choose, for whatever reason ( and there are other valid reasons but like Maija i choose not to start getting into that) to terminate your pregnancy then if you wish your foetus to be given a proper burial or more sympathetic means of disposal then you should pay for it yourself.

Even as I typed that I had doubts about what I was typing... I know this doesn't apply in the UK case Killaho cited but what about in countries where for cultural or religious reasons contraception is illegal or marital rape is accepted? I know until relatively recently a lot of Irish females had to come to the UK for abortions simply because contraception was forbidden or extremely hard to get hold of. it is too simplistic an argument in these cases to say "don't have sex then"

Ach and I said i wasn't going to get into the argument...

[Honeypot]

I personally could never have an abortion. Like 420girl said... I have had a bond with each of my children before they were even born. From the moment I knew that I was pregnant I was in love with that child.

However I do believe that there are certain reasons for abortion. I have a friend who had to have one because of medical reasons. The baby was going to die anyway, and the longer she carried it, the more it was going to fuck up her body, because the baby was growing outside her uterus. And in all actuality she still has problems because she didn't abort it early enough. But she did it as soon as she could, considering that most women don't even know that they're pregnant until about a month after conception.

Anyway, I went with her for support, and those pro-life people are fucking crazy. They handed us a brochure with all kinds of pictures of dead fetuses. And they told her that it wasn't too late to change her mind. I basically told them to fuck off because they didn't know the circumstances, and they started chanting baby killers at us, and we had to be escorted into the building by a security gaurd. We were in that clinic for hours, so my amusement became to watch the crazies out on the street. They would come in shifts, and at one point they brought a giant picture of the virgin mary and started praying to it.

My friend would never have had the abortion if she didn't have to, and she still wishes that she would've been able to keep the baby.

Anyway, I'm pro-choice, but I have no respect for women who use it as a form of birth control. One abortion because of a mistake is forgivable. If you continue to have abortions because you're too lazy to use birth control, that's fucked up. And in all actuality, I don't know if I could even abort my baby if it was the result of a rape because it is still a part of me too.

As for that article... That's just ridiculous. Those women didn't care enough to keep the baby in the first place, so why the hell do they care what happens to it once they kill it? However, I'm a supporter of stem cell research, and I think that instead of burning the fetuses up, they should donate them for stem cell research. At least that way they wouldn't have died for absolutely nothing.

As for adoption... I couldn't do that either. I can understand where someone would have a problem giving their baby up for adoption, but I know people who have done it. Either way I think in a way they end up regreting the decision. If I ever win the lottery though, you better believe that I will adopt a couple of kids myself. Fortunately for me I was smart enough to not have sex until I knew that I was old enough to be able to take care of a child if I did get pregnant. And even more fortunate for me I didn't end up getting pregnant before I met the man I'm spending the rest of my life with. But I really do believe that a child is a very special gift, and to throw that away makes me sick.

Sorry, so long :$

[swiss miss]

wow, this is a very difficult topic to write about but I consider myself to be a very liberal person and this extends to me feeling very strongly that people should have the choice to have an abortion if they feel that this is the most relevant option to them, but more importantly that they should not be persecuted for taking this option by religious or pro-life campaigners.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is a great debate for people to voice their feelings but attempting to force that opinion, as some do, via persecution is incredibly backward and unacceptable, in my opinion, in todays society (i think i can be even more controversial and state my incredibly strong feelings against animal rights protesters persecuting, threatening or harming people that work with animals for medical research - again everyone is entitled to their opinion and feel free to shout it as loud as you wish but doing any of the afore mentioned is a step over the mark... but that is surely the topic for a whole other thread!).

Anyway, i cant speak of personal experience, i imagine that having an abortion is not a decision made lightly but a considered choice that, if i understand correctly, has to be approved by two doctors to ensure this consideration has taken place.

what i think should be further discussed is the stage at which an abortion can take place, this is currently 24 weeks and with scientific developments foetuses can survive before this time and, as such, perhaps this date should be reduced???

[Honeypot]

Anyway, i cant speak of personal experience, i imagine that having an abortion is not a decision made lightly but a considered choice that, if i understand correctly, has to be approved by two doctors to ensure this consideration has taken place.

what i think should be further discussed is the stage at which an abortion can take place, this is currently 24 weeks and with scientific developments foetuses can survive before this time and, as such, perhaps this date should be reduced???

I'm not sure about the having to have two doctors approve you to have an abortion, but I guess that could vary from state to state, country to country.

I agree with the idea that what should be discussed is the stage in which you can abort. In all actuality I've heard of people doing partial birth abortions as late as 30 weeks which imo is insane. If you could carry that baby around for that long, how can't you go another 10 weeks and give it up for adoption? I don't think that you should be able to abort after 10 weeks of conception, and even that for me is pushing it.

With my second son I had an ultrasound at 10 weeks and he was a baby. He had fingers and toes and everything. I know that at really early stages when the baby is still and embryo it doesn't resemble a baby at all.

Anyway, like I said before I could never have an abortion (unless my life was at risk), so it's hard for me to say what would be acceptable in this case. I don't frown on anyone for doing it, but I personally couldn't choose to do that :D