New Idea.

[The Ratt Pakk]

How about having places for your Junkies to be?
So say in certain places (street corner - suburbs etc.) and you pay extra for them to be in certain places, so they can make more money.
In the free-of-charge place (street corner) they make less money and have less protection against gunners. And in the higher places they have more protection and make more money, but it costs more for each junkie you have there.
Also, each place should have prices of which your junkie makes on average per token spent, so if there are loads of Junkies in the 'Suburbs' then the price goes down because the demand has dropped.
And Gunners also have to travel to each area (different price for each area) and can only win the Junkies of a player whose Junkies are in that area:

BillyBob (#386)
Junkies Working: 1319
Junkies in Street Corner: 576............<- Also what a Thug Mission
Junkies in Suburbs: 234.............................thing would show
Junkies in City: 433
Junkies in (some think else): 76

If the Gunner was in the City and jumped BillyBob, they could only get a go at 433 of his Junkies. So the Gunner will have to Thug people more to know where to go, and whether or not there a good target. So it is key that Worthers don't bang all there Junkies in The Street Corner as there is little protection, but have also got to make sure they can support there Junkies making more money.
This can also be applied with Machines, so building your machines on an Abandend Industrial Estate is cheaper but is more vunerable to being thugged and when the Thugs mess the Machines, the machines take longer to repair to 100%. And, maybe a Cartel could have say a Cartel Industrial Estate to themselves, it makes more vests/guns but if people find it and thug it it has a heavier effect, and effect every member of the cartel (running machines) machines a bit (slows down growth). So it's a gamble.
This would make for more tactical play, but could be complicated to make. I don't know.

Suggestions.

[Timoteo32]

Interesting. In THEORY, i like the idea. The concept of different costs and benefits is intriguing, but in practice it sounds ungodly complicated. It's a ton morre algorythms for the admins to come up with and it seems like it would make game play too tedious. It also seems like there would probably be one place that would be better than the rest and everyone would put them there so it would pry end up being a lot the same as it is now.

You're not a dumbass, and I don't hate the idea, but it seems like a very hard idea to implement in a way that helps the game?

[Gringo]

. It also seems like there would probably be one place that would be better than the rest and everyone would put them there so it would pry end up being a lot the same as it is now.

I disagree, as prices would fluctuate according to volume of junkies in one area, maybe the prices could be affected by the sales of those drug dealing!


You're not a dumbass

I agree!

[Jacx]

I disagree, as prices would fluctuate according to volume of junkies in one area, maybe the prices could be affected by the sales of those drug dealing!



I agree!

If u ever played fm it kind of links in..over there the market fluctuates with the product sold...in this case the market can fluctuate depending on who is pimping where.

Locations can be the same as the current stops for drugs.

Keep thinking and define more

[Timoteo32]

It's true, I guess i wasn't thinking about it changing based on who was where. It just seems like another thing in the game that would be kind of luck driven but maybe not I guess you would have to play test it to really see how people behaved.

What would you pay with? You mention free of charge places, I assume you mean other than their one unit of drugs. Would the more expensive places cost like cash in addition to drugs or just like 2 units of drugs instead of 1?

I don't like the idea with machines near as much.

[The Ratt Pakk]

This is going against my previous post on the areas thing. This ties in with the 'Get Busted By Police' idea.

Street Corner is free to pimp on, you spend no extra money on any Junkie being there. There is more protection from being done by police as they don't care about the Street Corner

Suburb is a bit more expensive, but in exchange for this your Junkies make more although there is more chance of being busted (residents telling police).

The City there is even more money to be made but a higher chance of being caught.

The State, very risky but very lucrative.

The cost to per junkie in each area rises as the profit margin does, but it is a small difference (per single junkie) so it pays to have more junkies in areas.

But without the 'Getting Busted By Police' idea, i'd say reverse what i just said but make it more expensive for the higher places. Also maybe you could only have Pimp creds for certain areas, so for street corner you could have your junks at 135% (easier to reach 175%) but in the City they could be at 175% (harder (more credits) to get there) So it is harder to establish your self in the higher areas as you need Junks in the lower areas to be making a definite profit for you (keeps the lower places used).

The Machines idea, was just a thought, but it could be worked on. it would make Thug Tasks more vital and useful to Worthers instead of just a Gunners tool. There would also be more competition for machinists, and would stop playing machines always meaning a 105mill score no sweat. More of a challenge for lazy Machinists.

The price changing in different areas depending on how many junkies were in it, i was hoping could be the same sort of thing as like the Drug Dealer where the price changes (of course there is a small number of which doesn't change the price: 1000(no sure, too high? too low? could change with the progression of the game), and the Junkies on top of 1000 increase the price).

[Loopus]

To expand on the idea, maybe instead of the locations you mentioned (street corner, suburbs, etc) assign values to the stops in the game (Rit's house, Union Station, Science Center) for example, machines or presses at the science center are easier to repair, but cost 20,000 instead of 15,000. Or Junkies at Rit's house make less money than those at Union Station. Actually I think this is what Jacx was getting at.

[Spork!!!]

Sounds c) game to me... I hope.
Nothing wrong with the idea, I just like (most) things the way they are...

[hardcore G]

i like it more or less just as it is.

nowt wrong with ideas though.

peace

[tca]

the game needs to expand a little bit, new ideas implemented etc, or people are going to grow bored with the same thing over and over year after year

[Timoteo32]

Interesting. I kind of like the idea of different university credits for different types of pimping. And your point about making thugs more valuable to worthers is a good one. The machines really shouldn't change though cause it doesn't matter where people are producing their guns and vests cause they're all for personal use, therefore supply and demand doesn't come into play. Although finding some way to kick the machine strat up a little isn't the worst idea.

I still dislike the cops idea (i think this was in another thread) It just adds another element of random chance to the game and people can say the game screwed them. The fewer random algorythms the better.

I agree with vinnie, this should def be something for C.

[SNOWBLIND]

Let's not forget about shakes, how would the shakes work...cause if you are maxed, less junkies you loose, but if they are further away from where you are at....Than how would it work....this a question...not me being a smart ass. I am not as snappy coming up with an idea like everyone did.

[The Ratt Pakk]

Thanks for all suggestions.

SNOWBLIND, please reword your message i don't get it :S

I don't know what values to put on for each area, as i don't know a lot about how the rest of the game works (drug dealer). So i can't gauge what would be a good difference in values to make sure that all places got used.
For the idea to work, I do think that the Pimp creds for each area should be implemented as it stops people whacking loads of Junks into one area as Pimp is harder to get and each player will have to use the lower areas to be able to support the higher areas.
This idea can also be used with the 'Black Market'. So you need to make money (using lower 2 areas: Street Corner - Suburb) to get enough money to support the Junkies working at 175% in the higher areas (City - State).
For the Machines to work, i like the idea that machines cost more for certain places instead of the Industrial Estates idea. I do think that a machines idea and the junkies idea should run in tandem to make sure the machinists don't pull away due to the Junkies idea.
I could do with someone with a bit more knowledge of the game to make the figures work for this idea as i don't know, if someone could post some ideas for values that would be a good foundation.

Keep on analysising this idea please, all suggestions are taken aboard :)

[Timoteo32]

As for snowblind's idea, i'd say shakes would still protect the same for everywhere.

As for everything else, I'm just getting confused, and I'm TRYING to figure it out. I'd say the final jury ruling is way too complicated, unless you're going to mail everyone an instruction booklet ;)

[the squid of despair]

Chris, I hope your % aren't exact. Those are ridiculous ammounts to lose to gunners.

[seasider]

a lot will prefer it as it is, like me.

perhaps a D game set of rules would be the way to please everyone

I suppose that would demand even more donations

EDIT: Having red subsequent posts I see creating a D game is no way to please everyone

I, personally, don't like the sound of this new junky idea - nice try but no tufty badge

[Gringo]

I like how you explained it there Chris! Although as killaho suggested 40% of junkies, fuck we'd all be giving up on first day... lol

This game does need to be spiced up a lil and this idea works well for both worth and gunners, keeping us both happy! You know when your able to play your turn with your eyes shut that summat needs to be done :P

[steff]

Dopewars is reknowned for it's simplicity. This would only ever be implemented in a D game if it ever does get implemented.

[Deadwood]

I dont think we should change the classic A or B games.

However, like we brought warzone or C games in for example, we could also bring this more complicated game in, however i fear designing this would be extremely complicated and when we think of some simple things that havnt been done around the game, such as people receiving donation codes they have won or slight adjustments being made to certain areas of the game, it does seem unlikely that such a game will be designed in the near future.

:Shutit:

[steff]

I wouldn't like a new game that gives out medals. C games are a joke as it is. Why bring in a D and give out medals?

[Deadwood]

I wouldn't like a new game that gives out medals. C games are a joke as it is. Why bring in a D and give out medals?

I completely agree.

[Timoteo32]

Assuming we're still discussing this idea somewhat, i agree that chris did a good job of cleaning it up. The big question would be do gunners just stand to gain a larger portion of your junks or do they actually have a better chance of winning the jump? Seems like if you don't play with the probability and only the payoff, it makes it too easy for the worth players to outpace the gunners like they already do. Maybe the gunners get the same portion of each place but how the winner is caclualated would be different. I dunno, but I think we're headed towards something more possible.

[SNOWBLIND]

Thanks for all suggestions.

SNOWBLIND, please reword your message i don't get it :S

Shakes are one of the keys to gunners. If you are at 100% and you get jumped lets say you loose 50junks, but if you are at 200% than you only loose 15junks....#'s aren't exact, I know there is a right % of it. That is why I was saying would it be for all the junks that you have or just the ones that are in your area at the time.

[The Ratt Pakk]

Oh, i see.

It could be either.

Chris, thanks for the effort ;) Honestly, it's a start.

I think that 40% is a lot. The gunners would be doing better than us worthers, more junks = more money. You said it yourself.
It has got to be equal, fair, and not complicated.

Any suggestions/improvements on chris's values?