Death penalty ..right or wrong?

[HellRaiser]

Originally Posted by Kloaked Spirit

According to The Sentencing Project, an organization that does studies on how many people get charged for different things, they have a 2009 article which states the following: The Sentencing Project, whose reports are regularly cited in academic and government reviews examining criminal justice policy, concluded that the number of inmates sentenced to life without parole has more than tripled to 41,095 since 1992.

Okay, since it is not broken down into categories of crime committed we can't sit here and state 41,095 are actual murder cases. The important stat question here is out of that 41,095 since 1992,
how many have been released since?
How many of those so called life sentences are up for parole now?

I am willing to bet a majority are already out of prison or up for parole.

Originally Posted by Kloaked Spirit

By contrast, there are 3,220 people in death row as of 2007, which has risen from 2,575 during this same time period. (source: deathpenaltyinfo.org)

That should be the scary stat because out of all the murders, repeat murders, severe violent offenders, serial killers, serial rapists, pedophiles etc and that is all that has so called warranted death row? That somehow out of the huge prison population of 2.3 million not sitting their for life better serves their punishment? Seriously?

Originally Posted by Kloaked Spirit

I couldn't find any statistics as to how many people that get life without parole actually die in prison. Somehow I think it's going to be much greater than the 1% you're thinking.

How do you figure it is greater when they are constantly making room to let what they call not likely to repeat offenders out?

Originally Posted by Kloaked Spirit

we can't prove how much of a "revolving door" it really is.

Come on, you know it is. An overwhelming caseload never serves it's original sentence, most are lucky to serve even half of the original sentence. It's something no state or government wants to publicly state because it would result in acknowledging social breakdown, system failure, society would cause an uproar. Majority of society knows it though and does nothing about it anyway, ironically enough.

Originally Posted by Kloaked Spirit

And that is the big fundamental difference that's going to be a "agree to disagree" concept.

No, the fundamental difference is what your own site source link states right at the top of the Incarceration section quoted below.

The United States is the world's leader in incarceration with 2.3 million people currently in the nation's prisons or jails -- a 500% increase over the past thirty years. These trends have resulted in prison overcrowding and state governments being overwhelmed by the burden of funding a rapidly expanding penal system, despite increasing evidence that large-scale incarceration is not the most effective means of achieving public safety.

What needs to be said , muchless debated/argued after those hi lited points?
Prison is not working, it's epic failure.

[Kloaked Spirit]

Originally Posted by HellRaiser

Okay, since it is not broken down into categories of crime committed we can't sit here and state 41,095 are actual murder cases. The important stat question here is out of that 41,095 since 1992,
how many have been released since?
How many of those so called life sentences are up for parole now?

I am willing to bet a majority are already out of prison or up for parole.

You're absolutely right that we can't say that all of them are for murder. That's why I stated so up front. As far as how many are available for parole or out of prison in this time frame, I'd love to find proof one way or the other. I couldn't find anything on the issue, so if you find anything, let me know.

That should be the scary stat because out of all the murders, repeat murders, severe violent offenders, serial killers, serial rapists, pedophiles etc and that is all that has so called warranted death row? That somehow out of the huge prison population of 2.3 million not sitting their for life better serves their punishment? Seriously?

Those are the numbers I could find, so yes, out of all the criminals in jail or prison, only a little more than 3k are sitting in death row. The link I provide below will probably be a reason why.

How do you figure it is greater when they are constantly making room to let what they call not likely to repeat offenders out?

You're saying that out of every 100 people sentenced to life, 99 of them get sent free? This is something you're going to have to prove, or provide a link to.

No, the fundamental difference is what your own site source link states right at the top of the Incarceration section quoted below.

The United States is the world's leader in incarceration with 2.3 million people currently in the nation's prisons or jails -- a 500% increase over the past thirty years. These trends have resulted in prison overcrowding and state governments being overwhelmed by the burden of funding a rapidly expanding penal system, despite increasing evidence that large-scale incarceration is not the most effective means of achieving public safety.

What needs to be said , muchless debated/argued after those hi lited points?
Prison is not working, it's epic failure.

Yes, but as you stated about the fact I posted earlier, that's just stating there's 2.3 million people in the system. That's not stating there are 2.3 million murderers. Here's a link for a breakdown on the prison (not jail) population:

http://www.bop.gov/news/quick.jsp

As you can see here, over half of the people in prisons are there for drug crimes. I'd agree with you that an over-expansive, large-scale incarceration system probably isn't the way to go in a variety of situations. I'll agree that the sentencing on a lot of crimes is so screwed up that it's partly contributing to this problem. However, that's getting more into a debate on "What is a fair sentence for the general criminal" or "How we need to fix the prison system" rather than the debate on "What is a fair sentence for a murderer."

[kscience]

On clipwire there is a poll by fidel. It will not let me in.

It says ONLY FOR MURDER.

Well. I am late here. Murder victims are through suffering. How about for rapists and child molesters, those who starve their kids or make their daughters bear their kids in filthy basements?

I say Death Penalty Yes.

On One condition.

That it is slow. Grisly. Even more elegantly thought out than the fool's mission of the perpetrators.

The victims family must ok how it goes down. They can use the ideas of any consultants they wish. And take their sweet time in deciding.

If it is life in prison with bigger bastids, so be it. If it is death by bunta, so be it. Whatever.

I have long felt we should not get birth certificates, we should have living licenses. Revokable if our actions require this.

[spankme]

uh huh
come back when you reach adulthood